Guy from Scotland faces year in prison for training his dog (to do the Nazi salute)

[Borachio]

You found it funny?

I'm amazed.

Still, there you go.

 

[Moriarte]

When he gets out, he can teach his goldfish to swim in swastika-manner. See if scottish public likes that one, test the limits of free speech.. who knows, maybe he’ll become a world wide celebrity!!!

 

[Borachio]

When he gets out, he can teach his goldfish to swim in swastika-manner. See if scottish public likes that one, test the limits of free speech.. who knows, maybe he’ll become a world wide celebrity!!!

Now, that would be funny. And clever.

 

[Yeekim]

Would it be OK to publicly advocate the murder of someone as long as you claim you only mean it as a joke?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

 

[Kyriakos]

Now, that would be funny. And clever.

A fash called Wanda.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You found it funny?

I'm amazed.

Still, there you go.

I know, it's almost like people are different and have different tastes in things. I remember being amazed when I discovered this around age 3 as well. Welcome to the club

 

[Borachio]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

The thing is here, though: Swift didn't really write A Modest Proposal as a joke, but as satire.

And he did it to high-light the real plight of the Irish. (Or maybe he didn't. Maybe he was trying to highlight the futility of "easy" solutions to population problems.)

But whatever. I find it hard to believe that Swift's sophisticated and prolonged satire is in any serious way comparable with the Scotsman's attempt at humour in a 5 minute video.

But who knows? Maybe this is just the start for Count Dunkula. Maybe he'll go on to promote a concentration camp board game (as a "joke", of course) and make a million. (Actually, I think this has already been proposed by some sad sack, and rejected by major boardgame manufacturers as unlikely to be a commercial success.)

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Well there have certainly been games about escaping them. They were obviously pro-Nazi though because they featured Nazis as the bad guys.

 

[Borachio]

And then there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus

But I'm pretty sure that wasn't meant as funny, even though it's a comic.

 

[Yeekim]

The thing is here, though: Swift didn't really write A Modest Proposal as a joke, but as satire.

And he did it to high-light the real plight of the Irish. (Or maybe he didn't. Maybe he was trying to highlight the futility of "easy" solutions to population problems.)

But whatever. I find it hard to believe that Swift's sophisticated and prolonged satire is in any serious way comparable with the Scotsman's attempt at humour in a 5 minute video.

But who knows? Maybe this is just the start for Count Dunkula. Maybe he'll go on to promote a concentration camp board game (as a "joke", of course) and make a million. (Actually, I think this has already been proposed by some sad sack, and rejected by major boardgame manufacturers as unlikely to be a commercial success.)

Isn't "satire" a sub-genre of humor?
But I agree that they are not quite comparable. I can imagine some particularly dimwitted person unfamiliar with the concept of "satire" taking "A Modest Proposal" at face value.
I am having great trouble imagining someone being incited to commit atrocities or being won over to the far right by the video in question.
After all, isn't that the purpose of hate speech restrictions? To stop the spreading of hateful ideologies?

 

[Borachio]

Well, yes. No-one is being encouraged to gas anyone. That's a good point.

Despite the repeated command (to a dog) to do so, it's fairly obvious the guy isn't seriously suggesting it to people.

I guess the most serious charge against the bloke is of trivializing the Holocaust.

Which, although it maybe distasteful, probably shouldn't require hauling him before the beak.

 

[Yeekim]

Well, yes. No-one is being encouraged to gas anyone. That's a good point.
Despite the repeated command (to a dog) to do so, it's fairly obvious the guy isn't seriously suggesting it to people.
I guess the most serious charge against the bloke is of trivializing the Holocaust.
Which, although it maybe distasteful, probably shouldn't require hauling him before the beak.

Nice to agree for a change.
EDIT:

He certainly wasn't discussing the Holocaust nor was he talking about somebody else saying the phrase, was he?

Someone could ask people to kill you and then claim it's a joke, but that wouldn't sit well with everyone who's the target, would it?

Sorry I neglected to respond earlier, but I guess everything I said to Borachio answers your questions as well. The guy didn't ask anyone to kill anyone. He was training a dog to respond positively to Nazi soundbites.

Everyone kind of avoided the hypothetical where the dog is replaced by a very young kid. Why?

Because it is not remotely comparable?
I mean, unless the kid was like 3 months old an thus unable to comprehend or remember anything.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Group hug!

 

[aelf]

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I must have misinterpreted your statements and you actually understand that it was a joke and that people should allowed to tell jokes without being prosecuted or having to move to the US(!).

Hurrdurr

Are you serious? What business of anyone else's is it what the dog is trained to respond to? Do you think the dog is ACTUALLY a Nazi now?

Everyone kind of avoided the hypothetical where the dog is replaced by a very young kid. Why?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Everyone kind of avoided the hypothetical where the dog is replaced by a very young kid. Why?

I thought someone answered it.

I avoided it because you didn't give enough context to really answer it.

Edit: I like how you tricked me into responding to that by quoting me and making it look like you were responding to what I just said. Very sneaky

 

[rah]

I do remember playing a board game when I was younger about escaping from a Nazi Prison.
I looked it up and you can still buy it on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Osprey-OSP8935-Escape-Colditz-Anniversary/dp/1472818938

 

[Senethro]

Eh. I guess it depends on if you think videos on the internet are a public or a private space. Shouting "gas the jews" in the middle of town being different than edgelord joking in your home.

Can any actual lawyers comment on the effectiveness of "lol jk" as a defense?

Did anyone try it at Nuremberg?

 

[Katie88]

No it doesn't. What it depends on, legally, is whether he was inciting violence or racial hatred. That is why the prosecution is arguing, with a straight face, that his video of him teaching his dog to do a roman salute is actually an incitement for people to go and gas Jews. That's also why it's ridiculous, since it's clearly a joke and not an incitement to anything, as anyone who watches the video can see.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

No it doesn't. What it depends on, legally, is whether he was inciting violence or racial hatred. That is why the prosecution is arguing, with a straight face, that his video of him teaching his dog to do a roman salute is actually an incitement for people to go and gas Jews. That's also why it's ridiculous, since it's clearly a joke and not an incitement to anything, as anyone who watches the video can see.

I'd be working more on the "racial hatred" side than the "violence" side, if I were the prosecution. Actually, I'd be far from surprised to find that that is exactly where the prosecution is headed, despite your claims to the contrary. Of course, you assigning a ridiculous position to the prosecution just so you can call them ridiculous fits a pattern, so that makes it seem a likely possibility.

Perhaps I'll seek out some court documents and find out for sure...

Nahhh...I'll just go with established lack of credibility and save the effort for something more important.

 

[Katie88]

I love how some men can be so catty.

But there's a video earlier in this thread where someone who was in the courtroom talked about some of the prosecution's arguments. And it's ridiculous because, as I said, he wasn't inciting anything; he was making a joke.