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HAM-01: The Hanseatic League

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by hamtastic, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Roster


    1. Hamtastic ==UP Get us army
    2. Cosmichail ==on deck Will use that army to wipe out Izzy
    3. Sooooo == Will leave Soooo army to do his usual excellent warring
    4. Greyfox == By the time Soooo's finished Greyfox can negotiate us some good trades
    5. Baru == Watch out for the neighbours
    6. Pigswill == Hope I'm on your Christmas card list mate

    Just thought I'd post a roster to see who's up and that is Hamtastic. Oh yeah. Zwolle just wasn't meant to be I guess and I just knew Izzy would declare sooner or later. That's just her nature the evil witch of the west. Time to get an army and do some asskicking. I think we should kick her back to the stone age. PS. It won't be long before GK smells blood and declares too.
     
  2. sooooo

    sooooo Emperor

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    We shouldn't refuse any more tribute demands. These are just free diplomacy, and we should be glad when someone demands something from us. Especially as we won't be in a space race - all we have to do is make gold.
     
  3. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    You're right just have to give in once and they will love us. Probably even offer up some trades. We especially shouldn't refuse tributes if we have no army to speak of. I always find with Izzy just refuse once or twice and she declares. Just her nature.
     
  4. hamtastic

    hamtastic Hamburglar

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    Oh hey. I got it, FYI. I'll try to post tonight. Army-building will commence
     
  5. hamtastic

    hamtastic Hamburglar

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    As Hamtastic the Pithy assumed his realm, his advisors began to bring him reports.

    "Sire, the cursed Spaniards have seized Zwolle and are moving towards our empire!"

    Hamtastic replied, "It doesn't matter - the mighty crossbows of our predecessor will handle them."

    Indeed, Isabella foolishly chose to attack a legion of crossbows hidden in the forest on the main route between Zwolle and Rostock:



    The advisor rushed in momentarily:

    "Sire, the cursed Spaniards have decimated our crossbow units!"



    Hamtastic cursed and yelled, "%&#@*! How is this possible? What kind of moron crossbowmen can't take care of themselves? Hire some real troops and go fight the Spaniards!@!"

    "And make us some money! You cursed people, we're traders - we're supposed to make money, but we have none. And why are our cities not growing?"

    The advisor responded, "But sire, your predecessor told them to stop growing because they were unhappy!"

    Hamtastic took a long look at the advisor and yelled, "Well, hire some cheap Military police, then - maybe some chariots - they can move around quickly to quell unhappiness and they're cheap!" He then threw his amassed bowls of rice and clams at his advisor. "Don't come back until you have good news!!"

    The advisor turned and run.

    Several years later the advisor meekly poked his head through the door. "Sire, I think I have good news. We have some money now."



    "And our fight against Spain is going better."



    "Genghis wants to trade with us now, which I thought should make you happy."





    "Not to upset you, sire, but he may still want to attack us..."



    Hamtastic mumbled, "Well, keep up the good work."

    A few more years passed, and the advisor returned with more pictures. "Sire, we have built a decent army to press the attack on Isabella."





    "It's located to the south of Rostock."



    "We build missionaries to spread our faith so that we may reap the benefits of our religious peacefulness (after we righteously destroy Spain, of course!)" (Send to Great Merchant Farm)



    "And I have done as you said - our cities are happy and they are growing. The chariots roam the streets and keep the peace, as somehow the people are convinced that you are the direct descendant of god when we have more troops. Are you pleased, Sire?"



    Hamtastic, who had grown quite old, looked up from his death bed. "You have done as I said, but I fear for our trading empire. I fear its downfall will come in a matter of several hundred years, and what do we have to show for it? One Great Merchant, no friends, and scarce money. What will the legacy of the Hanseatic League be?" View attachment 141543
     
  6. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Yes Hamtastic time flies in this game and sometimes making variants may sound good at the time but not overly realistic. I say we not worry about it and play for the fun as civ fanatics like to do. I would very much enjoy taking of care of Izzy and doing what we can to get at least a few more merchants. We have nice cities so let's see what we can do with them. This is "I got it" and will play tonight sometime.
     
  7. Baru

    Baru Beer Drinker

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    Hey all, posting this from work because my computer decided to take the long dive off crash and burn cliff. Not sure when I will have the money to fix it so I have to bow out for the forseeable future:cry:
     
  8. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Lord Hamtastic rests in his bed and looks upon the young knight, “it is up to you Van Helsing to bring the empire back on track”. The young knight answers “yes my lord I will do what I can, to do thy bidding” Hamtastic lies back and motions to Van Helsing to leave. Van Helsing in his native Dutch says to his squire “Wat heb we gedaan? Onze soldaten zijn niet genoeg om de Spanjarden te vechten maar we zullen doen wat we ken”.
    (translation: What did we do? Our army is too small to take on the Spanish to fight but will do what we can”. )

    Van Helsing heads to the battlefield and summons more soldiers to join the fight. Moving the soldiers towards Zwolle he sees that Zwolle can be taken but can it be held. The Spanish have a considerable amount of Horse archers which can prove to be a real nuisance. His lordship had left our scientist idle for increase in gold but Van Helsing decides to veto that and begins on guilds and uses the Great Engineer to accelerate that to give us knights which will give us a tactical advantage over the Spanish. In the back of his mind Van Helsing also is looking to acquire the ability to build grocers to increase our wealth and find the method to banking as well. Upon looking to his governors he sees that our workers have finished most of what they need to and feel that we should soon consider “caste system” to implement multiple merchants in our food rich cities of Visby and Bruges.

    Further observations made by Sir Van Helsing.
    Our lack of religion really hurts us for lack of experience points and happiness. Considering our goals of wealth, pacifism would have proved beneficial but alas without a religion we are unable to utilize it. Of course staying neutral does offer the benefit of friendship of other civs especially Saladin who if we had chosen a religion would act unfavorably towards us. Our lack of military strength leaves this option out for a while.

    Another thing to consider in aiding to building wealth hasn’t been initiated known as the great wonder “National Epic”. By building this we could double our GPP points and of course the best spot for this would be Bruges.

    One last thing is instead of building a cottage on the plains near Visby we might have built a farm there to build a chain irrigation to Bruges. Although it won’t need that many farms right now as we grow and happiness increases we can use farms there as well.

    Turn 1

    Lubeck finishes Mace start another Catapult to add to our soldiers converging on Zwolle. Van Helsing very much wants to liberate the Dutch city as it is close to heart and it pains him to have the vile Spanish control it. Decide that we should just burn the GE for Guilds to aid us in our battle since the Spanish Queen in unreasonable in her demands for peace (wants education too no thanks).

    Turn 2

    Soldiers continue to gather at the border of Zwolle and continue to converge on it. Our standing army isn’t that well equipped promotion wise nor do we have enough siege weapons to take the city effectively.

    Turn 3

    Instruct our workers to start chain irrigation to Bruges. Her highness Queen Isabella has been quiet and hasn’t shown up with any additional warriors yet.

    Turn 4

    Decide we need see what the other AI’s are willing to trade and see that Cathy has furs to trade so we trade Bananas for fur to keep our citizens a little happier.

    It is also the year we discover guilds so that are horses now can become the great Teutonic Knights.





    Turn 5

    Bruges starts a knight just in case with Genghis Khan so near by and so unhappy with us.
    Horse archer approaching Rostock but no worry since we have upgraded some of our spears to pikes.

    Troops are now in position at Zwolle with ample cats and begin bombardment.


    Turn 6

    Take out Horse Archer which nicely upgrades our pike to a medic which also was badly needed for our troops. Also pump up research for banking so that we can build a few banks to increase our wealth.

    Turn 7

    We now can attack Zwolle and all cats WD which is a total surprise. We loose no warriors and move our soldiers into Zwolle. Unfortunately in the distance Isabella is converging upon Zwolle with numerous HA’s and catapults.



    Turn 8

    Lubeck starts a knight.

    Turn 9

    We discover banking and go back to 0% research. Decide this would be a good time to revolt to caste system to put in lots of merchants in Visby and Bruges.



    Turn 10

    We now have five merchants in Bruges and four in Visby. Upon looking at Kiel I realize we are building a Lighthouse but I think we should have built a workboat for the clams which we could have easily traded. I must admit I overlooked to change this so leave it to finish but queue a workboat to follow.
    Ok I decide to take 5 more turns to hand the game over in a complete fashion rather than in the midst of battle. I would prefer not to finish the game for the next player in this manner.

    Turn 11

    Isabella now has a small stack of Horse Archers and cats outside Zwolle. We manage to take out 4 Horse archers and 3 cats but she has another stack moving in which our weakened troops will be unable to deal with.

    Turn 12

    Bruges starts National Epic to double GPP points from 15 to 30 which will give us GM much faster although it’s a crapshoot with artist/engineer/merchants points. Merchants points do dominate in both cities and Visby will pop something soon hopefully a Great Merchant.

    After seeing four more horse archers converging on Rostock and stack on Zwolle I feel we need to take a break to heal our weakened troops. We do have an adequate army in Zwolle and once healed should be able to do some damage. We have a mace in Danzig which are there for happiness only . Once we hook up those clams I would suggest trading to Saladin for dyes and build theater in the most unhappy cities.

    We make a “cease fire” with Isabella as knowing her even with a peace treaty it won’t be long until she declares again so I suggest getting our maces over to Zwolle and declare on her soon.

    Turn 13

    Build a workshop at Kiel which speeds up the lighthouse considerably. Done in 3 turns and it will take 6 turns to build a workboat. Another worker is building a road to Zwolle for better troop deployment. One production rich city needs to build some more knights/mace/cats so that we can move on the Spanish once they finish attacking us.

    Turn 14

    Genghis asks us to cancel deals with GW and oblige since he is right on our borders for whatever good it will do. Hopefully he is working to declare on GW rather than us considering his request.
    Lubeck builds a knight start a JT for happy but Soooo if you need to please veto it.

    Turn 15

    Danzig also finishes knight start a bank there since we are producing 88 gold there at 90% wealth and 10% culture.





    This should help us toward our goal and I disagree with needing whipping at this point since we would need to build many commerce buildings to accomplish this amount of GM. The caste system imo should have been implemented some time ago but with some happy resources might be able to stack a few more in these cities. Getting dyes from Saladin adds one happy and for each 10% culture we get one happy too for theatres so making that trade as soon as we have clams hooked up is paramount. (at Kiel)

    I do believe it will be difficult to make the variant but of course we won’t know unless we try. If Zwolle is to thrive we need to get that Spanish city south of it either raze it if it’s under cultural influence or take it. I did not revolt to mercantilism mainly because of our trade routes with Russia and Mongolia. Rostock is working a lot of commerce tiles to get us some cash but again veto that if you feel the need. During your turn Soooo we should pop something in 3 turns hopefully a Great Merchant. Our richest city is Danzig right now but he would aid in popping more GM's in Bruges.

    Teutonic Knights artefact
     
  9. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    That's too bad Baru. I have a P3 doing nothing too bad you are so far away.
    Please do keep lurking and commenting always appreciate input.
     
  10. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    With only 165years left, let's recall the variants:

    How many merged merchants do we have right now?
    What are our trade income like?

    I think #3 is the only one we would fulfill.

    With only 135 years left, I will continue to settle the GM in Danzig to produce more cash rather than having the extra 1 food to Brunges which the city has abundant of farms not being worked on anyway.

    --
     
  11. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    In answer to questions Greyfox we have only 1 merged GM at Lubeck so far. We will pop something in 3 turns at Visby.

    We are only getting 4 gold from Saladin for 1 trade and no other resources being traded for gold yet. Traded with Cathy for furs to help happy. I agree that merging GM in Danzig will benefit us the most cash/food although we have happy problems there which can be remedied by getting those dyes or putting more soldiers there.

    EDIT: We won't make 8 merged GM's by 1800 either as I did some calculations and the most we will get by that period is about 4 so giving us a total of 5 that's if the RNG gives us GM's only. I suggest we alter the variant to a later date but that's up to Hamtastic. We started a bit too late with caste system and building of the national epic. By not choosing a religion we could never benefit from pacifism.

    The leader we choose too traits really don't help us and Lizzy would have been much better. We needed the philosophical trait here. The one wonder we could have used was the Parthenon and could have built it easily with Bismarck's trait and marble just one tile out of our reach. Building a city there for the marble might not been a good approach but his trait might have allowed us to build it even without the marble.

    2nd edit: Just remembered we started in middle ages so parthenon might have been alloted by AI or not available. Not sure will have to look into it deeper but not sure that would have applied here.
     
  12. hamtastic

    hamtastic Hamburglar

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    Parthenon would not have been available.

    To be honest, I had played a test game, and I didn't really believe all three were possible, but I thought maybe in the SG world magic would happen. But I thought it would be kind of fun and interesting.

    I think what it really demonstrates is that it's much harder to know what to do on a late start (particularly with a funky goal like we had). I'm fine with keeping going - maybe just until we get #3 accomplished.

    I do think we could have done a bit better than we did towards the achievement of our particular goal. In hindsight, the Colossus was not very useful - we're generally not working ocean tiles much. Of course, it did seem like a good idea then. Not trying to blame anyone, just interested in what features were more/less effective. I may have made a bit of a mistake in putting us into judaism at any point, since we wasted two overall turns revolting in and out of it.

    Still, I'm curious to see what happens when we have a bunch of merged merchants. Let's keep going and get us a bunch of merchants...
     
  13. sooooo

    sooooo Emperor

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    Got it, will play tonight.
     
  14. sooooo

    sooooo Emperor

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    Well, Hanno the great merchant from Economics was claimed by Washington in 1555 AD. Not sure why there was no mention of this in the reports, but this is a huge blow for us. Economics was the only real research target we had, and we failed to get it. Washington didn't get it from the liberalism tech either. That and the :smoke: letting the computer assign engineers in Lubeck has set us back 2 great merchants, a quarter of our target. I notice there are also engineer odds in both Visby and Bruges. The whole point of this game is money and merchants, yet we don't seem to be concentrating on the latter. We have researched 1/3 of printing press. I start research up again because the tech will give us more money from towns.

    On the bright side we have got our city back from Izzy and are back at peace.

    T2: Rostock starts the Heroic Epic. This is a city without much commerce potential, so I figure it can lumbermill its forests and pump some units out.

    We win the odds at Visby and get a merchant (Pytheas). As advised by Greyfox and Cosmichail, we merge him into Danzig.



    T4: Start chopping the Nat. Epic at Bruges.

    T5: Phew, Genghis declares on Washington.

    T6: Genghis demands our spare rice. Anything you say man! Remember to cancel this deal in 10 turns. Also I sell our only clams to Cathy for 8 GPT since we don't need the health.

    T7: Spain demands Iron. I agree. Cancel this in 10 turns too. I figure she can't build that much in 10 turns. The diplo bonus lets us open borders with her.

    Printing Press comes in, start liberalism for the civics, both of which we want.

    T9: Washington has constitution, adopts representation.

    T10: Not a lot.

    I didn't trade around printing press because it is a monopoly. Right now we can only get liberalism for it - I would hope we can preserve the monopoly until we can get gunpowder, nationalism for it (maybe economics). Washington won't talk to us - did someone stop trading with him? I thought we were traders? Save is here.
     
  15. hamtastic

    hamtastic Hamburglar

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    Genghis asked for a deal cancel in cosmic's turns and he accepted. Logical since we were still at war with Izzy then - a two front war would likely have been bad news.

    Good idea acceding to demands.

    Erm. That's probably my fault with the econ stuff, although I'm not really sure what happened. I just kept it on printing press, which it was on when I started. Guess that was :smoke:

    Well, ermmmmm. Good to keep going - let's see what happens, I s'pose
     
  16. sooooo

    sooooo Emperor

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    When an AI says it has something on its hands, as you noticed in your turnset, then it has decided to go to war and there is nothing you can do about it. No trades, religion changes, submitting to demands will change this. Fortunately he decided to war with Washington, not us.

    This is kind of annoying, because it means you have to check every AIs status every turn to predict the next wars. Someone probably has made a mod to show the status change, but I'm a bit anti-mod at the moment.
     
  17. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    Yeah too bad about economics Soooo. We could have utilized the GE sooner for guilds and got banking to go to economics but GW beat us to it. GK asked us to cancel deals with GW and from there I deduced he was planning on war with GW not us. (in my post) I went back to 0% research to upgrade some units to bring our power up somewhat from being a target.

    Hamtastic don't worry about it we all make booboos. I kind of really didn't want to stop warring with Izzy mainly because I wanted that culture influence removed. She likely won't declare even though we have only a "cease fire" as she really isn't that advanced and we are outteching her.

    EDIT: The computer assigns engineers when the pop goes up in a food rich city. Just watch that and we should be alright.
     
  18. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

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    1. Hamtastic == just played laying in death bed
    2. Cosmichail == just played wants blood as usual
    3. Sooooo == just played accedes to demands
    4. Greyfox == UP need some Greyfox magic
    5. Baru == autoskip (computer on the fritz)
    6. Pigswill == on deck Isabella back on the Christmas card list
     
  19. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Got it .... magic? hmmm ...
     
  20. hamtastic

    hamtastic Hamburglar

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    Greyfox is making me nervous. I wonder what he's up to. :eek:
     

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