[RD] Hamas/Israeli War News One: Hostages and Invasion

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Just a reminder while this tenous peace holds...

Palestinians in Segregated Hebron built Fences above their Streets because Israelis throw Garbage down at them..
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There is a reason for the violence, nothing happens "in a vacuum".
This seems to create a potential catch-22. If people are throwing things at pedestrians from the windows/buildings above and the response is to construct fences, nets, scaffolding etc., to protect the pedestrians from the falling objects, this can end up increasing the risk of objects being thrown into the nets/fencing, because now you have created the perception that there is no risk of actually hitting and/or injuring the pedestrians.

So now even more people will throw rubbish out their windows without any intention to hit or even any care or regard for hitting pedestrians, reasoning that the nets/fencing will catch anything they toss out the window anyway. Prior to the nets, only people with actual malice towards the pedestrians would throw things down at them, with actual intent to cause injury, or at a minimum a malicious disregard for the risk of hitting the pedestrians.

I guess just one point of my observation is that the real remedy should have been to criminalize and punish the people throwing things down at the pedestrians or tossing rubbish out of their windows into the street. The whole notion of building nets/fencing instead of punishing the people throwing things out of the windows is insane, and counterproductive, but it appears that there is no power/ability to punish the conduct and/or no desire to by the authorities who would ordinarily do so.
 
Enough of this garbage.
Indeed.
Racism is literally baseless hatred of another person for their biological or ethnic difference from you. It has nothing to do with your power or ability to actually hurt them.
Antisemitism is explicitly nothing else but Jew-hatred. Using any other "excuses" is by itself a form of antisemitism, because it legitimizes actual antisemitism from non-Jewish "Semites".
So, indeed, enough of these ignorant stupid garbage excuses already. Not that it will stop suddenly, since dumb bias makes dumb people worse than blind and deaf.
It's also rather telling that I've been in this sub-forum for a while now, and I've only seen maybe a dozen or two of active users, most of whom are staunch unapologetic antisemites.
Nice to know that this is just another stinking troll bridge, yup.
Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. The_J
 
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Strong language from EU as it condemns Israel's plans for new settlements​

The European Union's foreign policy chief has condemned plans by the Israeli government to allocate new money for expanding settlements in the West Bank.

"I’m appalled to learn that in the middle of a war, the Israeli government is poised to commit new funds to build more illegal settlements,” Josep Borrell said earlier. More on the situation with settlements in the West Bank here.

Borrell said "violence spread by extremist settlers in the West Bank" - who he described as being been protected by Israeli police and military - will "not make Israel safer".

And he described the settlements as the country's "greatest security liability".

"It is also for that reason that they are considered a grave breach of international humanitarian law. I was appalled to see that the Israel government plans to allocate another $43m to increase the settlement activities and I have condemned it."

This is quite strong language from the EU’s top diplomat, given it is an institution which usually opts for more diplomatic language and prefers to leave tough political statements to individual member states.

Borrell also condemned whathe described as the “disproportionate” killing of civilians in Gaza.

“The suffering of the civilian population of Gaza, depriving them of basic needs, the highly disproportionate death toll, including more than 5,000 Palestinian children,and turning half of Gaza into rubble. Most of the public opinion around the world considers it unacceptable."
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67539313
 
Too little too late. The Eu isn't going to do anything (eg sanctions) to Israel by itself, given it's a vassal; it's not the pre 2008 era when it had economic parity with the US.
The US could, but clearly won't - at best it will be forced by its own public opinion to cut help.
 
racism needn't even come into it.
Absolutely. Islam is plenty enough of a reason, as is general ignorance and generations of brainwashing. Antisemitism is altogether rarely racial in the first place, unless it's literal Nazis.
Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. The_J
 
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settlements
I just realize a very simple question:
How are new settlements any form of invasion to begin with?
They are new (as in, built from scratch, not taken over) and they are being built in previous unoccupied locations (hence why they are "new").
Palestine still refuses to become an actual standalone state, so building new villages in its territory isn't "against the local government", because there's no such government to begin with.
How's that "invasion"?
This is a serious question that I just realized - what ACTUAL laws does it break, besides "we don't want any Jews here", which is NOT an actual law?
 
Moderator Action: I'm thinking we need a pause in the discussion. There is quite a bit to sort out here.
 
I suggest anyone interested to read the essay "The Iron Wall" by Ze'ev Jabotinsky (who founded a number of Jewish paramilitary groups in both Europe and Palestine including the Irgun). This essay is only seven pages long and is remarkable for the clarity with which it addresses the issues, a marked contrast with the attempts of today's Zionist propaganda to confuse everything by the use of Orwellian language and blatant lies.

The essay is freely available for download and is cited on Jabotinsky's wikipedia page IIRC.

Its basic thesis follows these points:

Zionism is a colonizing program. If you do not believe in the justice and morality of the colonizing project, you cannot call yourself a Zionist.

No native population of any territory ever peacefully acceded to the colonization of that territory by foreigners as long as the natives saw a chance of driving the foreigners out. Jabotinsky even points out that Labor and "moderate" (what we might call "liberal") Zionist positions do profound disrespect to the Palestinian national consciousness by assuming that their relationship with their own "fatherland" will be abandoned in exchange for bribes.

Therefore, Jabotinsky concludes that the question of Zionism hangs on military force, and argues that the Zionists will need to militarily dominate the territory in order to eventually make some kind of settlement with the Palestinians. This is the metaphorical titular Iron Wall, behind which the colonization of the territory would proceed, and which the Palestinians would not be able to penetrate. He argues that only with the recognition by the Palestinians that the colonizer cannot be driven out will "moderate" elements come to the leadership of the Palestinians, and then the basis of a political settlement would be lifting the boot from their necks in exchange for recognition and acceptance of the colonization of Palestine and its conversion to a majority-Jewish territory.

All very illuminating.
 
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My biggest problem with what's happening between Israel and Gaza:

Since the Hamas terror attack on Israel on October 7, nearly 1,000 antisemitic incidents have been reported in Germany. Some of these acts include extreme violence and property destruction, a German association said.
 
My biggest problem with what's happening between Israel and Gaza:

Since the Hamas terror attack on Israel on October 7, nearly 1,000 antisemitic incidents have been reported in Germany. Some of these acts include extreme violence and property destruction, a German association said.
Your biggest problem with thousands of dead civilians in the middle of a humanitarian crisis is the attacks happening in other countries?

I mean, they're problems for sure. But the biggest?
 
My biggest problem with what's happening between Israel and Gaza:

Since the Hamas terror attack on Israel on October 7, nearly 1,000 antisemitic incidents have been reported in Germany. Some of these acts include extreme violence and property destruction, a German association said.

IMO these incidents underscore the dangers of falsely conflating Israel with the world's entire Jewish community.

Also, what do you think about this?
 
IMO these incidents underscore the dangers of falsely conflating Israel with the world's entire Jewish community.
Is it conflating, or just plain old antisemitism? I'd say it's rather like tension relief by targeting jews in general, no matter whether they support Israel or not.

Also, what do you think about this?
Shameful.
It's one thing to oppose unregulated immigration from Muslim countries and another to actually threaten and harass members of the community.
Your biggest problem with thousands of dead civilians in the middle of a humanitarian crisis is the attacks happening in other countries?

I mean, they're problems for sure. But the biggest?

Yeah.
I don't really want to take a stand between a population built on hate and electing and supporting terrorists and a quasi-apartheid state with colonial ambitions. It's a morally grey conflict, which we can't influence. It's better to focus on protecting ourselves from the fallout.
But if you want I can say that killing civilians is bad and it's a problem so many die. But this I can't do anything about.
 
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Is it conflating, or just plain old antisemitism? I'd say it's rather like tension relief by targeting jews in general, no matter whether they support Israel or not.

Yes, and I agree this is antisemitic, but it's also why I get so annoyed at organizations like the ADL including antizionism in their definition of antisemitism. It leads the ignorant to believe that all Jews are to blame for the actions of the insane criminals in charge of Israel.

It's one thing to oppose unregulated immigration from Muslim countries and another to actually threaten and harass members of the community.

I think these both come from the same source, which is animosity toward Muslims. And imo, using the state to threaten and harass people, as is inevitably entailed in immigration crackdowns, is arguably worse than vigilantes doing it.
 
My biggest problem with what's happening between Israel and Gaza:

Since the Hamas terror attack on Israel on October 7, nearly 1,000 antisemitic incidents have been reported in Germany. Some of these acts include extreme violence and property destruction, a German association said.

Ok, but what do you want? Its a problem, but how does one impact the other?

Obviously bad stuff in one place doesn't permit bad stuff in another, thats just stupid. So what is the connection?
 
I think these both come from the same source, which is animosity toward Muslims. And imo, using the state to threaten and harass people, as is inevitably entailed in immigration crackdowns, is arguably worse than vigilantes doing it.
Well, this is a different topic but the state should be responsible for filtering those migrants who are beneficial to the country and those who are not. And also monitoring and rigorously enforcing the obligations of arrivees. Reinstating this responsibility is not animosity. It is a privilege to live in a European country, not a right.

Ok, but what do you want? Its a problem, but how does one impact the other?
I actually want those who have refugee/migrant status committing such crimes to be deported.

Obviously bad stuff in one place doesn't permit bad stuff in another, thats just stupid. So what is the connection?

Obviously. I never said that bombing civilians is ok because Jews are harrased in Europe.
The connection is that such crimes flair up each time there's tension in the Middle East.
 

Two boys killed in Jenin​

The small figure on the security camera video turns and starts to run, before falling sharply to the ground.

His eight-year-old body easily dragged from the road by a friend.

The life of Adam al-Ghoul ended in Jenin today with a shot to the head, as Israeli forces withdrew from a military operation in the camp there.

In a nearby street, his 14-year-old friend, Basel Abulwafa was fighting for his life after being shot in the chest - gunfire hitting the ground around him.

At Jenin Hospital, both boys were declared dead.

Israel’s army said suspects throwing explosive devices at its troops had been hit with live fire.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67562488
 
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