[RD] Hamas/Israeli War News One: Hostages and Invasion
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Lexicus
Deity
This is how I typically think about the sloganeering issue.
ywhtptgtfo
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It does seem the politicians and media are more interested in the swastika itself than the message. Equating Zionism with <a word that cannot be spoken> can be a bit too far but there's a valid message being made given how the fundamentalists are going about with it. However, the politicians and journalists simply wanted to take the easy way out and create a public freak out by focusing on the symbol. There's Western media for you.
ca.yahoo.com
Politicians condemn display of swastika at Parliament Hill rally
Canadian politicians across the political spectrum are condemning the display of a Nazi swastika symbol on Parliament Hill Saturday, during a pro-Palestinian march and rally in the capital.Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre and others were reacting to an image...
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Lexicus
Deity
It does seem the politicians and media are more interested in the swastika itself than the message. Equating Zionism with <a word that cannot be spoken> can be a bit too far but there's a valid message being made given how the fundamentalists are going about with it. However, the politicians and journalists simply wanted to take the easy way out and create a public freak out by focusing on the symbol. There's Western media for you.
Politicians condemn display of swastika at Parliament Hill rally
Canadian politicians across the political spectrum are condemning the display of a Nazi swastika symbol on Parliament Hill Saturday, during a pro-Palestinian march and rally in the capital.Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre and others were reacting to an image...
On the other hand there are escalating incidents of genuine antisemitism and even violence against innocent Jewish people around the world and this is a problem. Imo, it's an obvious result of decades-long propaganda campaigns to falsely identify Israel with the Jewish people at large, but refusing to address antisemitism at all only plays into the arguments of Zionists who insist that an ethnostate in Israel is needed as a refuge from an unremittingly antisemitic world.
Deutschland Deutschland uber alles.
Swastika is just the sun symbol from Hindu, while hammer and sickle are just tools for gardening and agriculture .
I'm all in for banning slogans referring to genocide. Although, I would also revoke residency/refugee status of those who chant such a thing.
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Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Prominent Palestinian activist arrested in West Bank
Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi has been arrested by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank.Tamimi, 22, was detained overnight in the village of Nabi Saleh, the Palestinian Prisoners' Society says.
Israel's military told the AFP news agency she was suspected of "inciting violence and terrorist activities".
Meanwhile Israeli media reported that Tamimi was arrested in connection with a post on Instagram that threatened to "slaughter" Jewish settlers in occupied territories.
It's not the first time Tamimi has been arrested. She was convicted, when she was a teenager, in 2018 on charges of assaulting a soldier and incitement to violence in a video that went viral.
Four killed in the West Bank
Four Palestinian men have been killed by Israeli forces in the West Bank today, the Israeli military and Palestinian ministry of health operating in the occupied territory say.The four are reported to have been in a car driving through the city of Tulkarem when the soldiers opened fire. The Israeli military said the men were members of a Hamas cell that was behind numerous shooting attacks.
The occupied West Bank is separate to the Hamas-run Gaza Strip. A total of 152 Palestinians have been killed in in the West Bank since 7 October, the health ministry there says.
A commission for Palestinian prisoners says 70 Palestinians were arrested overnight, including prominent activist Ahed Tamimi, as we reported in our last post.
The Commission of Detainees' Affairs says more than 2,000 Palestinians have been arrested in the West Bank since 7 October, amid escalating violence in the territory.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67324897
Lexicus
Deity
Oh yeah, it was reported that she posted this:
“Our message to the flocks of settlers, we are waiting for you in all the cities of the West Bank. From Hebron to Jenin, we will slaughter you, and you will say that what Hitler did to you is a joke,” said Tamimi in an Instagram post.
“We will drink your blood and eat your skull. Come on, we’re waiting for you,” the post continued.
Ahed Tamimi arrested after 'slaughter the Jews' post on Instagram - The Jewish Chronicle
The 22-year-old activist said 'we will drink your blood and eat your skull'
www.thejc.com
Personally I don't like what she is alleged to have said in her post but it's telling that the IDF (to say nothing of the settler terrorists) is actually killing people in the West Bank but they're also arresting people for posting?
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Well, the guy in charge of all police actions is the one who's party slogan used to be "Death to the Arabs" and i'm assuming is the genius who decided to give out 20,000 military grade assault rifles to the most radical and violent settlers and gave them free reign over the west bank.Oh yeah, it was reported that she posted this:
“Our message to the flocks of settlers, we are waiting for you in all the cities of the West Bank. From Hebron to Jenin, we will slaughter you, and you will say that what Hitler did to you is a joke,” said Tamimi in an Instagram post.
“We will drink your blood and eat your skull. Come on, we’re waiting for you,” the post continued.
Ahed Tamimi arrested after 'slaughter the Jews' post on Instagram - The Jewish Chronicle
The 22-year-old activist said 'we will drink your blood and eat your skull'www.thejc.com
Personally I don't like what she is alleged to have said in her post but it's telling that the IDF (to say nothing of the settler terrorists) is actually killing people in the West Bank but they're also arresting people for posting?
Lexicus
Deity
Yeah, on one side you're arrested for posting and on the other side posting gets you an important cabinet portfolio.
It's also worth noting that Ben-Gvir made a veiled death threat against Rabin thirty years ago, just weeks before he was assassinated.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
UN head says Gaza becoming a 'graveyard for children'
We've just been hearing from António Guterres, secretary-general of the United Nations (UN), who says the situation in Gaza is a "crisis of humanity" - and that the Palestinian enclave is fast "becoming a graveyard for children"."Hundreds of girls and boys are reportedly being killed or injured every day," Guterres - who has led the UN since 2017 - tells a news conference.
He adds that the conflict has been "shaking the world" and "destroying so many innocent lives".
Guterres reiterates his condemnation of the "abhorrent acts of terror perpetrated by Hamas on 7 October", saying its fighters have used civilians as "human shields" and continue to strike at Israel.
"Nothing can justify the deliberate torture, killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians.The protection of civilians must be paramount," he says.
Shame on you Guterres, says Israel's foreign minister
Israel's Foreign Minister Eli Cohen has hit out at UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres, who earlier described Gaza as a "graveyard for children" - and called for an immediate ceasefire."Shame on you," Cohen wrote on X, tagging Guterres.
"More than 30 minors - among them a 9 month-old baby as well as toddlers and children who witnessed their parents being murdered in cold blood - are being held against their will in the Gaza Strip.
"Hamas is the problem in Gaza, not Israel's actions to eliminate this terrorist organization."
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67324897
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
With focus on Gaza, Israeli settlers ramping up attacks on Palestinians in West Bank
Palestinian attacks on Israelis in West Bank have also risen
Just days after Hamas launched its deadly attacks on Israel, setting off a war in Gaza, an unarmed Palestinian was shot in the stomach by a Jewish settler in the West Bank village of Masafer Yatta.Zakirah Adra remains in the intensive care unit, according to his cousin, Basel Adra, a Palestinian activist and journalist who witnessed the shooting and captured it on video.
Adra, who says violence and harassment against Palestinians in the Israeli-occupied West Bank has been a regular occurrence for years, stresses it has gotten "much, much, much worse" since Hamas's attacks on Oct. 7.
"What's really going on here is that they are taking advantage of the war," he said.
With everyone's focus on the conflict in the Gaza Strip, it's just one example of how settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank has spiked since the war, say activists and observers.
The difference from pre-Oct. 7 is not so much in the dynamics of the settler attacks as "the scale and intensity of those attacks," said Dror Sadot, a spokesperson with the human rights group B'Tselem.
"The settlers are exploiting the fact that no one's looking at them at the moment," Sadot said.
'They kept beating me'
Palestinian human rights activist Issa Amro, who lives in the West Bank city of Hebron, said that on Oct. 7, he was detained by settlers dressed as Israeli soldiers, along with soldiers themselves, and held for 10 hours. Amro said he was abused during that time."They kept beating me, hitting me, kicking me, spitting on me, threatening to shoot," said Amro, adding the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) have also evicted him from his house.
"This is what is going on now in the West Bank — the Israeli military, under the right-wing government, is using this great opportunity for them to get rid of their enemies. I am the enemy," said Amro, a vocal critic of Israeli policies toward Palestinians. "It's crazy. It's [an] unannounced war in the West Bank, unannounced ethnic cleansing."
The West Bank is home to an estimated three million Palestinians, as well as about 700,000 Israeli settlers, who are living there illegally.
According to the United Nations, in 2023 there were, on average, three incidents of settler violence per day in the West Bank. Since Oct. 7, that has more than doubled to seven per day, on average, more than a third of them involving firearms.
Clashes with IDF soldiers have caused more deaths among Palestinians in the West Bank, but vigilante-style settler attacks have killed 29 people this year, according to the United Nations Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). At least eight of those deaths have happened since Oct. 7.
"In many of these incidents, settlers were accompanied by members of the Israeli forces, or the settlers were wearing uniforms and carrying army rifles," said UN human rights office spokeswoman Liz Throssell in a statement to CBC.
The violence is forcing entire communities from their land, says the UN. Since Oct. 7, nearly a thousand Palestinians from at least 15 herding communities in the West Bank have had to flee their homes.
Dan Owen, a researcher for the Israeli-based human rights group Yesh Din, said that since Oct. 7, their group has documented more than 172 incidents of violence in more than 80 Palestinian communities across the West Bank.
"You have these communities [that] are being forced to leave their residence. This is basically the endgame of this settler violence," Owen said. "At the moment, Palestinians all over the West Bank are absolutely terrified."
Biden urges halt to violence
Sadot said settler actions against Palestinians include general harassment, noise and setting trees on fire. In more extreme cases, they include setting homes on fire, physical attacks and killings.U.S. President Joe Biden has said that retaliation by Israeli settlers against Palestinians in the West Bank in the aftermath of Oct. 7 amounted to "pouring gasoline" on already burning fires in the Middle East.
"It has to stop. They have to be held accountable," Biden said on Oct. 26.
Following his meeting last Friday with Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken told reporters he had heard a "clear commitment from the [Israeli] government to deal with extremist violence in the West Bank — to condemn it, to take action to prevent it, to take action against those who perpetrate it."
"The protection of civilians must take place not just in Gaza, but also in the West Bank," Blinken told reporters.
Blinken also discussed the issue in person with Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. In a call with Biden last month, Abbas demanded an end to settler attacks against people in Palestinian cities, villages and refugee camps in the West Bank, while also stressing the need to stop the killing of civilians on both sides of the conflict.
In a statement to CBC News, the IDF said Israeli police are largely responsible for dealing with Israeli violations of the law.
Because of the IDF's constant presence in the area, "soldiers do encounter incidents of violations of the law by Israelis, some may be violent incidents or incidents directed at Palestinians or their property," the IDF statement said. "In these cases, the soldiers are required to act to stop the violation and, if necessary, to delay or detain the suspects until the police arrive at the scene.... In situations where soldiers fail to adhere to IDF orders, the incidents are thoroughly reviewed, and disciplinary actions are implemented accordingly."
Nadia Matar, co-chair of the Sovereignty Movement, which supports Jewish settlement in the West Bank, rejected the concept of settler violence.
"It's settler self-defence," she said.
Matar said Palestinians in the West Bank often approach Jewish communities and start filming and harassing them.
"And when you tell them to leave, then we are being accused of being the aggressor," she said. "If we sometimes need to defend ourselves, then it's called that Jews are being violent."
Last night, the Israeli army arrested Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi after she allegedly posted a threat on Instagram to "slaughter" Jewish settlers.
"We'll slaughter you, and you'll say that what Hitler did to you was a joke. We'll drink your blood and eat your skulls. Let's go, we're waiting for you," read the post, which was written in Hebrew and Arabic, according to the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz.
Palestinian attacks on Israelis on the rise
Since Oct. 7, visible support for Hamas has grown among Palestinians in the West Bank, including areas where the Islamist group has not traditionally been strong, Reuters reported.Palestinian attacks on Israelis in the West Bank have also escalated. Israeli officials say there have been more than 550 since Oct. 7, the New York Times reported.
So far this year, at least 23 Israeli civilians had been killed in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which is much higher than in previous years, Israeli officials told the New York Times.
Israeli peace activist Yehuda Shaul, who described the recent West Bank violence as being "on steroids," said he doesn't believe the attitude of the settlers — like any large group of people — is monolithic.
"There are different dimensions, different levels," said Shaul, who is also the co-director of the Ofek Israeli Center for Public Affairs.
He said there's probably widespread support among settlers for moving Palestinian communities out of Area C of the West Bank, where more than 300,000 Israelis live in settlements and outposts.
"But going and beating people out of their homes reduces [that] support ... in the community," Shaul said.
He fears what could happen if the Israeli government does little to stem the current violence.
Shin Bet, Israel's internal security service, recently expressed its concerns to the Israeli government about the increased tension there.
"It's something we hear slowly, slowly more from security people," Shaul said. "[They] are opening their mouth out of fear of opening up another front, of putting the entire West Bank in flames."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/west-bank-settlers-violence-israel-palestinians-1.7019263
E.man
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In historic scope Israel is similar to the christian crusades.
How long will they occupy the region?
Until the U.S. stop backing them.
Not soon.
As we can see they are still expanding. Given events since 1948 they won't stop until they take all Palestinian land.
How long will they occupy the region?
Until the U.S. stop backing them.
Not soon.
As we can see they are still expanding. Given events since 1948 they won't stop until they take all Palestinian land.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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That remins me of something I read about how japanese soldiers who did the massacre of Nanquing explained their actions later. "when we killed them we thought of them as pigs".
You are at the moral level of war criminals. And trying to justify war crimes the same way those crimes were justified in previous instances. In the past many wars were fought where large scale massacres happened, many others where they didn't. And every participant in those knew about killing animals (in the oast everyone did it), and had come to know about killing humans. Still, not everywhere were such massacres and dehumanization of civilians happening.
Not every army descends to that level. It takes individuals coming from already sick societies. Going along with the propaganda that dehumanizes the other. Contrary to what Goebbels said, it does not work every time.
What about the plains of Salisbury? Too close for confort?
At least the ICC can't accuse any israeli government official of kidnapping kids into safety - clearly they want to mass muder them all, with those deranged ministers talking of nuking whole populations. Which it appears is fine with the ICC.
The skinking hypocrisy of the "rules based order" and its international institutions is in plain sight.
The reality is that the world does operate on "might makes right", but one can still judge things morally. And each one should draw concluions personally, learn from these things, and decide what groups to support and whtat to oppose in the future. There are certain ones what are serial liars. Amazingly still they manage to deceive some people. But what is happening in Israel won't be just ignored, or forgotten. It isn't "maneagable". That was one of the mistakes of escalating this into a larger war. Worse mistakes are also being made and will cause further damane all round. Escalation is still in the agendas of those who can decide.
It does seem the politicians and media are more interested in the swastika itself than the message. Equating Zionism with <a word that cannot be spoken> can be a bit too far but there's a valid message being made given how the fundamentalists are going about with it. However, the politicians and journalists simply wanted to take the easy way out and create a public freak out by focusing on the symbol. There's Western media for you.
Politicians condemn display of swastika at Parliament Hill rally
Canadian politicians across the political spectrum are condemning the display of a Nazi swastika symbol on Parliament Hill Saturday, during a pro-Palestinian march and rally in the capital.Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre and others were reacting to an image...
Speakingh of hypocrisy, after their standing ovation for a nazi SS mass murderer now they pretend to be "concerned about a swastika"?
Everyone knows what it is about: attempting to crush any inconvenient propaganda that goes counter the governmenta-approved propaganda. There, in Germany, etc. They really believe people are so dumb they don't see through it?
If they do, they are so incompetent that things cannot possibly end well. If they don't then what is the plan, later pretend to be shocked, shocked, that "populists" win elections against these hypocrites? And turn coat an join some other group pretending top be "anti-system"? Hasn't that been played out already also (Meloni in Italy, for the most visible example)? The western european political class (and Canada's) is running out of options. This is why "Europe" is a nullity for what concers this crisis in the Middle East, and will remain a nullity. It does not matter if goverments "stand with Israel" or not, if they repress protests or not, they are nillities in the international stage, in influence and capability. Whatever happens in this crisis, in the Middle East now, will be between Israel, the US, and the reactions of the rest of the world, most importantly the neighbouring countries. Europe and the unimportant old anglo dominions will talk with themselves with no one listening. And will suffer the consequences from a crisis in cannot have any influence over. It matters not wether they repress protests against teh war successfully or fail to, or wether those protests mobilize public opinion. These countries are too weak and consumed with their own political decadence to intervente meaningfully. They will just make noise and attempt to pretend to be relevant. It's a facade.
This worries me because this war accelares a crisis already underway there, not so dramatic and deadly as the one in Palestine presently but one that already cost hundreds of thousands of dead in Ukraine needlessly (for lack of willingness and ability to block that crazy adventure) and can in the future lead to millions of dead. Propaganda was supposed to serve the purpose of maintaining power while pretending to play at democracy, but if it fails elections have to be suspended and the game changes. But these people, who can't even play the game of propaganda and democracy properly (they aren't convincing anyone who wasn't with them already out of shared interests) anymore, can't play other games either. Therefore they fall, and others will rise, power abhorring vaccum. We live in times of quick change. Dangerous times. With a quality of politicians almost everywhere who are vomit-inducing for their incompetence at everything. Even at propaganda, one of the basics of politics.
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Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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Fixed that. Everyone who seeks to start wars and solves problems with them knows exactly what they're doing. It's literally the tool. People sometimes pretend, though, that they're different.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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No, I cannot agree with that nihilistic view. There have been wars and wars. Not all wars descended into the level of absolute barbarity.
It is true that the idea of war is to terrorize civilians into submission. I myself always streess that. But that can be done and has been done many times without genocidal acts. Because war is but the continuation of diplomacy. A tool in the tooolbox. Wars more traditionally (more often) have been fought to anihilate the opposing armies and then impose a political settlement that the other side originally rejected, but that was acceptable enough to that side that no massacres need be involved! The art of negotiating a settlement (diplomacy) includes war. How wars are conducted depends on the politica aims for which that tool was taken out of the box.
Wars only degenerate into genocide or great massacres when the diplomatic aims, the political aims, are to anihilate the adversary population entirely somewhere. Where wars are used as a tool of ethnic cleansing or genicide to start with. That is evil in my world view, needs to be called out as evil. Not relativized.
The current goverment of Israel makes no secret of its goal, they have in the last few days come public about it. It is to achieve ethnic cleansing of the non-jewish population in the entirety of the territory they rule, by any means they can get away with. The wars they wage canot but be evil under these circunstances. They aim not just to destroy the opposing military power and then extract some acceptable concessions from the targeted adversary population, but to wipe out the targeted population. That is a maximalist aim that requires massacres and yes, genocide. It requires the kind of war that everyone (but the winners at the time) who have had a western moral framework calls evil.
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FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Weird how no mention of the apology and then resignation
Seem like the Allies made use of former German forces whom quietly changed sides
Meanwhile Hamas continues boost it will continue to its terrorist ways, not only that but its deems its own population expendable
But its just weird how one speaks of inconvenient propaganda
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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Oh, can't you see you're wasting the tax payer's money?
Note: we're now talking about what kind of war the political aims of the present israeli government require. You will of course pretend to be ignorant of those aims, despite a number of ministers there having spoken openbly about them. Though to have to do propaganda on behalf of such an inept regime, isn't it? And lackin arguments, you enter the discussion immediately with an attept to derail the current line of inquiry. Do cease insulting people's intelligence...
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Brings up Canadian SS soldier ovation in Israel thread
Complains about attempt to derail the current line of inquiry
Defend Russia no matter what
Complains about defending inept regime
.......
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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Wars are barbarity. That's not nihilism, that's just recognizing organized murder for what it is. True, sometimes rape/servitude will suffice after the disobedient are culled.
The lowest common denominator makes savages of us all. It's a cancer of the superorganism.
The lowest common denominator makes savages of us all. It's a cancer of the superorganism.
An aside, but you rarely lose when you set your expectations low in wondering how well-versed many of your legislators are in history.
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