amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Yes, I support my team. If Hamas attacks Americans or takes them hostage, why should I have any sympathy for them?
[RD] Hamas/Israeli War News One: Hostages and Invasion
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Akka
Moody old mage.
I find especially ironic that you seem to only notice these points when they apply one way.
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Do you have me confused with someone else, lol?
I read that more children died in the israeli invasion of Gaza (already) than in the two years of that other war.
Not all wars are the same.
Of course this can change too - although I hope it won't, and it can't change the other way around (by fewer than 5000 palestinian kids having been killed).
Lexicus
Deity
Hardly anyone here has "sympathy" for Hamas in this sense. I hope most people on the left consider Hamas to be a reactionary organization whose vision for the political settlement of Palestine is not compatible with any kind of humanist or Marxist view.
That being said, Israel has killed US nationals before as well. And they even told the FBI to fudge off when Israeli forces killed a Palestinian-American journalist just a few years ago. Idk about you but this doesn't seem like "our team" to me...
I'm happy enough with "my team" reasoning. What I don't get is folks who ascribe to that don't seem to understand that everyone has a team, and will therefore root for their own.
The problem is "my team" is it comes with the implicit "my team is the most justified vs. anyone else's team" for whatever is being justified.
The problem is "my team" is it comes with the implicit "my team is the most justified vs. anyone else's team" for whatever is being justified.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
hitler was an arab??
Hitler didn’t just “try” genocide.
Akka
Moody old mage.
No.
You seem to be only surprised about pro-Ukrainian not being pro-Palestinian, and going at length about it.
I don't see you surprised by pro-Russian people who spent two years ignoring/deflecting/justifying bombing civilians to bits and suddenly find killing civilians intolerable.
No, you're conflating point 2 and point 3 together, while they are very different (even if often correlated).
The point 2 is not about the people being involved being inherently better or more right, it's about caring more/feeling more concerned by them. It's basically the family effect - I care more about my family members than strangers, doesn't mean I consider a random person I don't know to be somehow less valuable on an absolute scale. And I won't blame said stranger's family to care more about them than about my own family, and I won't feel I'm in any way hypocrital if I care more about my family than about someone's else. As such, "my team" reasoning is acceptable in this case.
The point 3, though, is about hypocrisy and double standards. In this case, "my team" is not acceptable.
I don't understand what I'm conflating. The second and third sentences in my post there are wholly my own arguments, and as such I don't get how I could conflate them? The first is accepting amadeus' reasoning for supporting their team.
If you want to make a different argument about degrees of separation relating to the amount of care you have for a particular situation, go for it. That isn't really what I was talking about though.
Akka
Moody old mage.
You conflate "having a team" with "considering your team is more justified".
I point that it's not the case. You can have a team, care more for it than for others, and yet not automatically considers it's right.
Oh, sorry, I'm not conflating it. That's how I see it being used. They're separate things, but often come attached.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Amnesty International crawls up Ukraine’s ass as much as it does Israel’s. They’re all killing civilians. Stop pretending to care about it.
If you got shot by an IDF sniper, the State Department would deny you existed.
Estebonrober
Deity
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and the IDF sniper would go on to claim you as a trophy in his social media...
Palestinians Engaged in Nonviolent Protest. Israel Responded With a Massacre.
The targeting of unarmed demonstrators by snipers using high-velocity weapons was methodical, precise, and lethal.
www.thenation.com
Lexicus
Deity
Really interesting how no one says things like "Zelensky deems his own population expendable", sure do wonder why that might be...
All the statements about ending Hamas ring hollow when its leadership isn't in Gaza in the first place.
10.000 other people were, though, and they now have died. Who knows how many more will have to die before the US makes Israel stop (I mention the US because it's the only one which can do it).
10.000 other people were, though, and they now have died. Who knows how many more will have to die before the US makes Israel stop (I mention the US because it's the only one which can do it).
Klaus Hergersheimer
Emperor
A clever analogy. I'm left to wonder if those captives would want to kill their captor's infant son or daughter too...
Lexicus
Deity
Time interview with Ehud Barak, some interesting stuff here:
time.com
On the subject of human shields...
www.amnesty.org
Two States Is Israel’s Only Hope, Says Former Prime Minister
Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak tells TIME Israel's endgame in Gaza must be a Palestinian State
On the subject of human shields...
Ukraine: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians
Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February, Amnesty International said today. Such tactics violate...
www.amnesty.org
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