Hammer of the North v2

Joined
Apr 3, 2001
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Location
Odense, Denmark
Yes I know I know... I've got a couple of yet-not-finished projects on my hands... But I've come around to begin updating my vikings scenario.

The scenario was playing well, IMO, but also had some flaws which has prevented me from playing it lately, since I discovered them.

I've started out by making a new map, which is much more interesting than the old one in several ways. First, it is based on a danish medieval map, the roots of which date back to the viking age itself. This map charts the northern regions including Greenland and Vinland fairly accurately, with the mapmaking techniques known then. And makes for some interesting twists to the old boring Europe map, with sailable routes as far as Byzantium. I find it quite interesting to set up and play this game on an actual historical map, being able to include mythical places like Jomsborg among others.

Plans are to make some key alterations to the tech tree, wonders and units, and to the objective scoring system, to make it enjoyable as a multiplayer scenario as well as singleplayer. And then finally to implement the events-file WillemO made for it, with appropriate changes.

Any suggestions for new tribes? -Otherwise I plan on keeping the old ones, which seemed to work quite fine. I consider skipping the celts or the frisians to include a third viking tribe, which leaves 4 christian civs vs. 3 viking civs (which will be fighting a lot among themselves...).

I'd also like to hear what you think about the powerful weapons included in the old version -the nuke ships and paradropping vikings?

It was kinda great in some ways, especially the mp deathmatch between norse and danish vikings. I think I'm gonna keep the nukes, but make them a bit different, like a magic weapon that requires a hell of a lot of sacrifices to Odin. The paradrops I intend to skip, making ships far more vital to invasions.

I know there are a lot of viking scens around, but I still intend this one to be the ultimate viking scenario made, so come on with any suggestions you may have. :) Its still gonna be violent and a tad wicked, but with lots more historical (and some mythical) stuff in it too.
 

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:goodjob: I especially like the idea of making it a bit less history-scenario like by adding the magic. ;) The map looks very, very good, I must say. But if Byzantine is accessable, shouldn't there be a tribe called Byzantines (forgive me if there already is :p, it's been a long time)
 
Yes, they were a bit too powerful, especially since the objective scoring was practically impossible to reach if one played one of the non-viking tribes. The concept worked OK, with the division between very aggressive civs and very development-like civs, but a tad overdone. The last ones were really too limited by unhappiness and economic problems, than intended.

The flaws I mentioned was partly wonders that couldn't be built because wonders were toggled as objectives, and a part of the tech tree that was unresearchable because of a few wrongly placed preq's (derived from a no,no tech).
 
Hi Morten, what a nice map! When I saw it for the first
time, I immediately noticed there was something familiar with the
map. It looked so much like that old map in my old history books,
but I couldn't recall the name. Some searching on the Web
answered my questions. I first came into Olaus Magnus' "Carta
Marina et Descriptio Septentrionalivm" and then I found it!

It's Abraham Ortelius' "Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, Septentrionalium
regionum descriptio", printed in Antwerp in 1579!

Here's the map and a big bunch of other old maps of Northern Europe: see


http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/english/map8.html


Yes, I LOVE geography... :p
 
Actually it wasn't precisely Ortelius' map I used. It was a very similar one from S. Munster's Cosmographia (1588). Both must share the same origins, because they are so similar. Ortelius' map seems far more polished though, than the map I found.

In any case, the charting of the northen regions including Vinland suggests that the original dates back to the middle ages, presenting what "is essentially a Viking view dating from the 12-14th centuries". (quote from the site below)

here's another great site for medieval maps :
http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/map/h_map/h_map.htm
 
So that was the map... they all (Mercator's map included) really are very similar. I guess they didn't think too much about copyrights in the 16th century...

Too bad the original Viking maps haven't survived... Or are there some left? OK, it's a bit difficult to imagine someone carrying a boulder weighing 200 kilograms everywhere ;)

PS. I've noticed one small error in your map: you've interpreted the mountain region in central Iceland as a sea that splits the land in two.
 
:p
Hey Morten,

It'll be great to see an update of this scenario...especially with the map you have chosen to use. When you get a chance some screen shots of your changes would be appreciated :)

Keep us posted...

John
 
Hi John,

Actually I can't help working on this thing, even though I am extremely preoccupied with study work and preparations for final exams etc. I've got a ton of improvements. Its a bit relaxing to refine something I've already finished once.

New ideas/improvements so far include :

* Viking raiders are cheap fighter-settlers, and the nordic tribes start out with less cities to encourage expansion. Wonders and techs will have to be fought and bargained for.

* Abbey terrain squares will play a much more vital role to trade/research. With monasticism (explosives) monks can build new monasteries, i.e. transform the terrain like in the first version. One unsolved thing is how to persuade the AI to do this more, though... input appreciated.

* Fortresses and development of siege tactics will play a much more vital role to conquest on part of the european civs. In the old version siege engines were ridiculously expensive (and of doubtful benefit)

* Most wonders will be buildable to actually give some reward for micromanagement civs. Others are preplaced for conquest incentive etc.

* Events, objectives, techs and historical background is much more interwoven. I am very inspired by kobys ZWK, in the way events provide colour and benefits as well as historical background information. Really makes it come to life. I'm also scouting for some appropriate pieces of music to go along with it.

* Graphics overhaul, new city styles, units, icons etc. (with some borrowing, though). Gonna post a screenshot when I feel its coming together. Right now I am testing concepts with the old scenario, before I set it up on the new map. :)
 
Hey Morten,

Well, I was kinda wanting to see the Berserker have a big fat axe in his hand...maybe even a bloody one...hehe

What version of Civilization II for your update...or still the same?

John
 
Its gonna be for MGE this time. I found playing the old version as multiplayer a tremendous lot of fun, so thats what I have in mind here too -all tribes playable, with interesting combinations for mp. Also, I figure, everyone can upgrade to MGE these days using Cedric Greenes patch, so its not gonna prevent anyone from playing it using MGE. And last, but not least, I want to include events, for additional colour.

The bloody axe thing is noted.. ;) I think I've found the perfect new berserker unit, and it should be quite easy to equip him with something violent...
 
Saxon hovels are in original format. ;)

PS I have on another CD a set of Viking, arabs and european units from an ISI software game. Need some time to search for it.
 
Thanks Prom!

I'll get 'em tonight...I'm the computer at school right now and it won't let me download without a disk...these guys are kinda strict...

;)

John

P.S. I wanted to talk to you prom...about some artwork again...My North and South scenario has a few needs....
 
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