Hanging Gardens anybody?

[MadDjinn]

what timeline do people go for it?

I've experimented with it, and can fairly consistently get it ~turn 61-62 (depending on number of forest to chop + mined hills - usually going at 19-20 hammers/turn)

it's definitely got the issue of missing Calendar/trapping/Philosophy/masonry/unit techs, but you at least get Archers to defend with...

It's actually right after the build that a solid classical/medieval rush will occur. Very annoying that.

I'm also assuming that people are going mixed Liberty/Tradition as well? (extra worker/faster workers + Aristocracy) I can't seen Monarchy or Landed Elite helping much there and since Philosophy hasn't been teched, then Legalism is a waste.

 

[RealHuhn]

what timeline do people go for it?

I've experimented with it, and can fairly consistently get it ~turn 61-62 (depending on number of forest to chop + mined hills - usually going at 19-20 hammers/turn)

it's definitely got the issue of missing Calendar/trapping/Philosophy/masonry/unit techs, but you at least get Archers to defend with...

It's actually right after the build that a solid classical/medieval rush will occur. Very annoying that.

I'm also assuming that people are going mixed Liberty/Tradition as well? (extra worker/faster workers + Aristocracy) I can't seen Monarchy or Landed Elite helping much there and since Philosophy hasn't been teched, then Legalism is a waste.

Well, if landed elite allows you to work an extra hill, then it's better than aristocracy.
And why is legalism a waste? Four free monuments are easily worth it.

Build or buy an early worker instead of a monument in your capital and skip liberty entirely.

 

[ggmoyang]

Build or buy an early worker instead of a monument in your capital and skip liberty entirely.

Legalism comes too late if you dont get early culture ruin for tradition. (25+60/4=40 turn)

 

[RealHuhn]

Legalism comes too late if you dont get early culture ruin for tradition. (25+60/4=40 turn)

We're talking about the Hanging Gardens aren't we? You can't get to Mathematics before turn 40. Depending on gold, you could also ally with a cultural city state for early Legalism + Aristocracy.

 

[MadDjinn]

Well, if landed elite allows you to work an extra hill, then it's better than aristocracy.
And why is legalism a waste? Four free monuments are easily worth it.

Build or buy an early worker instead of a monument in your capital and skip liberty entirely.

I always build a granary, which lets me get to 6 pop by Math as well as work that extra hill, so food isn't an issue.

legalism is a waste if you take it for a monument in your capital, since you could have built one by then normally.

It's not a 'waste' if you take it after you hit philosophy, to at least get a free temple.

 

[vonbach]

I love that wonder its one of the top ancient wonders I try and stick in my capitol.
Put that and Great Library and the national college. Its usually the second wonder
I aim for.

 

[RealHuhn]

I always build a granary, which lets me get to 6 pop by Math as well as work that extra hill, so food isn't an issue.

legalism is a waste if you take it for a monument in your capital, since you could have built one by then normally.

It's not a 'waste' if you take it after you hit philosophy, to at least get a free temple.

"Since you could have built one by then normally?!?"
Of course I could but I would have wasted 8-10 turns. You know, you can build a 2nd scout/granary/water mill instead.
So why is it a waste? Also, going for the hanging gardens but skipping or delaying landed elite + the tradition finisher is very questionable ... you waste a lot of its power.

 

[ggmoyang]

We're talking about the Hanging Gardens aren't we? You can't get to Mathematics before turn 40. Depending on gold, you could also ally with a cultural city state for early Legalism + Aristocracy.

Yes, but you'll need Aristocracy or Landed elite to build HG faster.
And you won't get 500 gold for CS since don't have tech for luxuries.

 

[anandus]

In the last few games I'm a bit torn between building the Temple of Artemis and the Hanging Gardens.
The former is three-quarters of the cost, but is only better than the Hanging Gardens when, basically, your empire-wide food is larger than a hundred (10% extra food vs 10 extra food).
And also the HG gets all the multipliers over it, which makes HG more desireable than the ToA.
Although a plus of the ToA is that it gives GE-points instead of GA-points.

In the end I think the HG is better, do you agree? And also because of the same reasons?

 

[turtlefang]

The HG is a great wonder but not a game changer. As pointed out, it does force you down a less desireable early research path AND the AI seems to go for it early at the higher levels.

If you can get it - either in a major production city or your science city - its great. But I don't always get it (in fact, miss it much more often than not).

I actually prefer the TOA over the HG. It cost less, I tend to like wide empires than small, it applies to your entire food bonus, impacts multiple cities, and the impact scales with time as your cities grow and you add more cities. The 15% range reduction if also nice - especially when I switch over to ART and want to start building those units - its shaves a turn or two of the building time (you have to make sure its in your military production city). Combine that with the Brandenburg Gate and the barracks upgrades - well, you get the picture. And if your China with CKN, then its a natural.

Ideally, you would get both. Good luck with that!!!

 

[J-man]

TOA isn't in Vanilla but in on of the DLC packs, Am I right?

 

[anandus]

TOA isn't in Vanilla but in on of the DLC packs, Am I right?

Yups, it's in the Wonder of the Ancient World-DLC.

 

[wobuffet]

especially when I switch over to ART and want to start building those units

Artillery?

 

[TommyVern]

Hanging Gardens alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy