Hannibal rising

[Continental Op]

So, I've been playing as Hammurabi and thought I should aim for the domination victory. He's got the greatest traits for that, I think. And they are: I have been in war for the longest time, but my economy has never once sunk below 40%. And for a very long time, it seemed like this would be an easy victory.

At first, when I found out that Hannibal was in the game, I was worried. But as the game progressed, I though he wasn't a real player in this one. So I started my conquests as his ally by takin out Wang Kon first. He was so easy. Then I moved on to Toku, who proved to be a tough nut to crack, as always. It took me forever to take him out, especially after he vassalized to Zara. Now Zara was a really powerful player, almost as strong and sometimes stronger military-wise as I was. So, in order to survive the whole thing through, I hired some help from my pals Hannibal and Pete. I also helped them both, giving out techs to help them in the war, especially when Zara was so mighty.

Well, Pete couldn't hack it, but apparently Hannibal could, a bit too well I think. Now, with Toku out of the picture and Zara finally goin down the toilet, it seems I will have to confront my original nightmare. Hannibal has grown too strong.

I don't think the game is lost yet, but I'm starting to worry. So the question is this. What did I do wrong? And what should I do from now on in order to win. Here's the save:

 

[wioneo]

Nukes then steam roll. <-That is without looking at the save at all, and just glancing at the 1916 save date. My computer's too slow to be loading up Civ too often.

I'm sure that more personalized options will pop up, but if all else fails, nuke them.

 

[Continental Op]

Well, thank's for the tip, but I'm not quite there yet. Just got industrialism, and going for flight next. Hannibal's got a tech lead over me (he finished Apollo in the 18th century!) and a military lead also. That's why I'm worried.

 

[Silv Something]

What difficulty is this?

 

[Continental Op]

Noble. And I've only won this level once before (on BtS), so I'm not really a master of anything. So feel free to post any advice.

 

[Silv Something]

Are you ashamed of score victories? Are all of the victories enabled? How do you want to win?

And how 'bout a screenshot. I have vanilla so no saves for me.

Unfortunately, I can only beat Chieftain.

 

[Continental Op]

All the victories are up. I can handle a score victory also, if it comes to that (but bare in mind, Hannibal has a score lead also). I was aiming for domination originally, but any victory is fine by me. I don't think cultural is an option anymore, though.

And I'm not sure how to post a screeshot. Not that good with computers, and never did that before, either.

 

[Silv Something]

To post a screenshot, first you have to take one. For a pc desktop, press the prt scrn button. For a mac laptop, like me, press ctrl-apple-3 . When you post, (make sure you are not just quick replying) scroll down to the "manage attachments" button. Click "choose file" (this is where you find your screenshot) and then "upload". Your image will be attached to the post.

Edit: Can I also see the leader's opinion screen? This is assuming a UN win is possible.

 

[Ghpstage]

You are in a great mess here, but it is still winnable. I think Domination or Space are still reasonable to achieve. The shortest route to victory will probably be Domination with nukes, and although I don't think nukes are absolutely necessary here, they will speed everything up a tonne and making things glow is always fun .

Now for the constructive criticism

Your economy is a complete mess, there is no plan to it whatsoever

Your output of 434 is extremely low, i've seen comparable outputs from Bureau Capitals, and thats just 1 city!
A lot of land is still unimproved, you don't have anywhere close to enough workers to get much done, and some of the ones you have are either tearing down Workshops (auto workers!?) or building forts in jungles

You have almost no infrastructure whatsoever, no Oxford, no WallStreet no Iron Works, no Neaitonal Epic, no Universities, no Factories or Power Plants and only 4 Libraries, 2 Markets, 2 Banks and 5 Forges. This is worsenede by the fact you are running Representation, most of your cities can only have Artist or Spy specialists, your governors are running these guys and theres no point as you cannot get a culture win, and your output isn't high enough to steal, swap to Universal Sufferage for the extra on towns. Similarly you are in Nationalism and I don't see draft unhappiness in any cities, either use it to draft Infantry or better yet swap to Free Religion for more on towns.


Your military is in bad shape. A large proportion of your modern forces are sitting in cities doing nothing, for some reason you also have huge numbers of obsolete longbowmen/macemen/bowmen sitting in cities doing nothing too.
This is especially bad as your military is costing you around 50 the fact you are at war makes the situation even worse. To make matters worse the total lack of any major production capacity means you are taking 10 turns to build tanks anywhere, really not good.

The log shows you lost a lot of cities early on. Noble AIs rarely bring a stack capable of damaging anything. What went wrong!?

How did Hannibal get the Korean cities West of you? Once he threatened the cities you should either had swooped in and took them, or closed borders with Hannibal to prevent him taking them all.


Are you really going to waste the Great Artist by trying to pop borders? You can easily solve the culture problem by killing the city pressuring it with your huge military . That Great Artist should be starting a Golden Age (GA = GA! In nearly every case!)

I'll have a better look at other things and how to best go about fixing it tomorrow
But for now I think taking out the South Western and South Eastern Ethiopioan cities with your huge military, using the Great Artist for a Golden Age, swapping to Free Religion and Universal Sufferage (during Golden Age), swap to building factories, coal plants, forges etc, researching Fission then Rocketry and gearing up for nuclear war is the best option.

When it comes to nuke wars.
-Be sure to attack enemy Uranium resources first, while the AI is awful at using nukes they can still hurt.
-Hannibals only Uranium resource is under a very vulnerable city in the West, be sure to take this within 2 turns when war breaks out.
-Use tactical nukes, they are half the price and cause the same damage, target stacks first and nuke cities you are about to attack (while you are 2 squares or more away though, don't want to nuke yourself! ), major production cities can be considered secondary nuke targets (if you have spares ).
-2 nukes will generally wipe out any stack (a handful of injured survivors will be left)
-Getting the enemy to capitulate quickly will reduce war wearriness economic strain and hopefully stop Global Warming turning the whole world to desert while making you win faster

For future games, I would strongly recommend reading articles in the war academy

 

[Silv Something]

" . . . and now for the constructive LOTS of criticism. "

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

" . . . and now for the constructive LOTS of criticism. "

I know it sounds a little harsh but Ghpstage really has a point there. Continental OP's cities are very underdeveloped. By just moving a few of the existing troops around and triggering a Golden Age with the Great Artist you are able to vassal Zara in a couple of turns. Then you trade Rocketry with him as well as another tech (don't remember which ) and use the rest of the GA to research Fission.

In the meantime be sure to build Factories in your cities to be able to mass produce nukes.

I played some turns and see what you can get with just using what you have in a more concentrated way. Zara's your vassal, no more cultural problems in your borders and, if everything else goes wrong, you have the score for the time victory.

 

[bhavv]

I'm really not sure how to be constuctively critical of this game ....

Is it just too bad sorry.

1900 AD and not even a library and courthouse in each city =x

Hence your tech and gold output will have suffered throughout the whole game.

Org Trait wasted with not many Courthouses, and hardly that many cities, yet the economy is still terrible somehow.

Key buildings to have in every single city ASAP, no matter what your strategy is - Granary, Library, University, Courthouse, Forge + Factory. Then you can build whatever else much more quicker afterwards, and use Wealth / Research to keep your economy strong on top of that too while waring.

 

[wioneo]

Key buildings to have in every single city ASAP, no matter what your strategy is - Granary, Library, University, Courthouse, Forge + Factory. Then you can build whatever else much more quicker afterwards, and use Wealth / Research to keep your economy strong on top of that too while waring.

I strongly disagree with the inclusion of factories and universities in that list. Building factories in commerce cities that barely have any production to multiply is not worth the unhealthiness, forges are fine since they come with the happiness boost. Definately don't go building universities in every city...those are pretty expensive and similar to with factories, they don't help much in production oriented cities that are lacking commerce.

You definately should have Granaries, courthouses, and libraries in every city(libraries because they are relatively cheap, and come along early enough to almost always make a difference), though.

 

[bhavv]

He is Organised = half cost factories.

Most of his cities have been workshopped, mined and lumbermilled, are on stagnant growth with health ratings of 23 healthy to 15 unhealthy, another with 18 to 12 with a far plentiful health surplus while not growing anymore.

So why not put a factory in those cities? He doesnt even have a forge in many of them even though the cities are on stagnant growth with a +5 health surplus.

Babylonians also get a +2 bonus on their UB, as well as being Organised for 50% off on factories, so why is there any reason not to build factories in most of your cities? Babylon is ideal for Workshop / factory economy, they benefit greatly from it.

4 or 5 of his cities are also riverside with lots of river tiles with no Levees lol.

He would be getting like up to +10 in each of those cities with a levee added, and can use watermills to boost production.

 

[Continental Op]

Well, thanks for the tips. I guess I was just kinda... absorbed by the war, so I forgot my economy completely, just pumping out units. I'll try to remember it in the future. Ghpstage asked:

"The log shows you lost a lot of cities early on. Noble AIs rarely bring a stack capable of damaging anything. What went wrong!?"

I had some obsolete units and small garrisons in the inner cities, and I didn't expect that Zara would attack there. I took them back fast and put stronger defensive stacks there. Maybe I overdid it a bit, but that's why there are so much units in some cities.

"How did Hannibal get the Korean cities West of you? Once he threatened the cities you should either had swooped in and took them, or closed borders with Hannibal to prevent him taking them all."

Actually Hannibal only got one city in the west originally, I had all the others. And one by one, they all flipped by culture to Hannibal.

 

[bhavv]

Wow, you really should have rushed Seoul early on, what a great city location it is =D

You should have ganked the Koreans forst, thir cities are really really well placed with lots of resource.

 

[Continental Op]

That's what I was trying to do, but Hannibal beat me to couple of them, and the rest joined his side later. I guess the grass is greener on their side or something.

 

[Silv Something]

Sorry to be rude, but where is my screenshot?

 

[Continental Op]

I've tried, but somehow I can't get it done. Either it won't copy it or then I can't find it anywhere. Not that good with computers, I'm afraid. Anyhow, I don't see much point in working hard to get it attached, since as pointed out by the previous posters, this was a pretty bad play by me and I got some useful advice too, which is what I was looking for. But looking at it now, it really was an embarrasingly bad play and I'm not keen in posting it here any further.

Anyways, I think I'll give Ghpstage's strategy a go. I've never before tried nuke war, so even if it won't go well, I think it will be fun. "If I can't beat you, I'll bloody well make sure your country will be a lifeless wasteland to the end of time. So enjoy your victory."

 

[oyzar]

Everyone were bad at some point in time. Don't let that discourage you from posting further. Just look at is as an opportunity to improve. In general you always want enough workers(1-2 per city is fine), and you never want to work unimproved tiles.