Happiness Post Patch

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by spfun, Jun 18, 2011.

  1. magnus333

    magnus333 Warlord

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    No it doesn't.

    I am 100% positive that I am correct on this as I've exploited this loophole since launch. Whenever I'm brushing up on the -10 unhappiness level I convert puppets and rush courthouses for the extra -2 unhappiness. Here is how it works in the current build:
    Puppet or regular city: 2 unhappiness from the city
    Annex: 5 unhappiness from the city
    Annex with courthouse: 0 unhappiness from the city. I am 100% positive about this.

    In the patch it will be:
    Puppet: 3 unhappiness from the city (up one)
    Annex: 5 unhappiness from the city (no change)
    Annex with courthouse: 0 unhappiness from the city.
    Annex with courthouse and police state: 0 unhappiness from the city and +3 happiness from police state. (A total of +6 over just having a puppet)

    The values are in globaldefines if you want to play with it yourself but this is how it works.
     
  2. Peets

    Peets Emperor Hall of Fame Staff

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    I have just tested this and you are correct. Last time I checked there must have been something else that changed my happiness. So atm it is already better to annex for happiness and now it's going to be even better.
     
  3. spfun

    spfun King

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    This is what i was talking about earlier in the thread, but i hope they get round to fixing this obvious oversight. It shouldn't be zero, it should still be 2 unhappiness, & 3 after the patch. Basically i see the autocracy +3 buff to counter the +3 unhappy from the city. Heres to hoping they've fixed the oversight. Otherwise like i said earlier, i'll be annexing a hell of lot more from now on & I'm going to find it annoying. :mad:
     
  4. Knut_Are_M

    Knut_Are_M Prince

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    if it works like that after the patch then india will want to decleare wars just to exspand.
    in the next patch india has a penalty to happiness untill size 6.
     
  5. Peets

    Peets Emperor Hall of Fame Staff

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    I don't. I don't see any reason to have such big empire of +50 cities except on the very big maps. If you want to play like that then you are going to annex more then before. In all the previous Civ games we always had to deal with it.
     
  6. spfun

    spfun King

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    I want it fixed because it isn't intended. Currently anyone annexs is getting an extra +2 happiness per city that's not been balanced into the game. 20 annexed cities? 40 happiness you shouldn't have by design! :crazyeye:

    If you don't find annexed cities annoying/boring then thats fine *shrug* The great thing about puppets as finally I could conquer the world & not have to deal with the massive time waster! Until this patch came along...
     
  7. cccv

    cccv King

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    With just 6 core cities I tend to get annoyed with the constant build orders I'm issuing by late game. But I'm less concerned with that even than the SP cost increase as you annex every city. I don't know how the math works out with the new culture numbers, but I can't imagine you'll be getting so much more that it'll offset annexing large empires. So how do we get those SP's that are so much more vital, for which there are three must-have trees now? And don't tell me to buy lots of culture buildings. I considered building those a luxury before, when there were only 5 or so must-have buildings for every city instead of 12 -.-
     
  8. Furycrab

    Furycrab King

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    Puppet empires I find more boring IMO since you don't end up producing anything new once the war is too far away from your central cities.
     
  9. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    One has to remember, in a game where one has a definite happiness cap staring them in the face, one might be inclined to focus production rather than growth (the inclusion of stone on grasslands helps this), and then one might just decide to do just that - keep pop low, focus production, build walls. All of the sudden "ok, get library - it's the best building at this point, no questions asked" turns into "my unhappiness is going to go out of control if I build the library and focus growth - maybe I should go production/walls instead."

    In the past when faced with walls VS library or colosseum or market, 99% of the time one would pick the three latter options. Now, it may actually be a choice. Seeing as we spent literally months hearing criticisms leveled at the game that there were "no meaningful choices" and that you more or less was a big "I win button" by following several cookie-cutter strategies, building the same buildings every time etc, I suppose I should be shocked that people are now complaining that they might not just build the same three no-brainer buildings over and over and over. I should be, but I can't say that I am :crazyeye:
     
  10. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    The game should add a conquest victory where if you control so much of the map you win. They could change that to capturing so many enemy citys or CSs. There should be some other form of military victory to make the game more interesting.

    The happiness issue to me is a lost cause. We should be able to expand not the other way around. If your going to penalize the lifeblood of the game which is happiness, then add some more ways to attain it. Perhaps more buildings, more resources should be added to the game. I know some others have mentioned this and they are right. Also, the goal should be to make the game more fun, not give players a huge headache. Who wants to play a frustrating game, its not worth it. Firaxis with further patches remember two words, REPLAYABILITY (a new and interesting game experience each time) and for gawds sakes FUN FUN FUN!!!! :)

    +1 unhappiness per city is a big hit up from 2 to 3 (it should be at 1 at the most and even that seems unfair, I wonder if this can be fixed in the xml?) I think what they should do is this. If you conquer a foreign city and annex it, for a time it should give quite a bit unhappiness, but eventually it should balance out over time reducing unhappiness as people get used to being part of your empire, they assimilate into it, become part of the culture and heritage. The longer you control that enemy city the more happy towards your cause it becomes. Larger cities should be the ones that gain more and more unhappiness, crowding, pollution, and so on. Which is what happens each new citizen adds to unhappiness. However, added new cities or extra enemy cities to your empire should not be penalized with an unhappiness penalty. I also believe that the larger the empire gets, the more its culture flourishes, because of its growing influence towards its neighbors, not the other way around.

    Also, with this patch 275 it seems difficult to have a large army. I hope costs are cut just a little bit with the new patch. The AI should also be checked from getting 200-300 gpt and 50 happiness, it is easy for them to expand with so much happiness. Here and there when I played recently, I have had times where for several turns I am -1 or -2 unhappiness, which stutters the growth of my empire, but the AI keeps rolling along like no tomorrow. I hope the new patch begins to balance out some of these issues, these problems have been there since last September.
     
  11. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

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    Which difficult are you playing? perhaps you should need to lower the level you are playing to get use to this patch. And with this patch,you can get Autocracy to have a large army without giving up from Liberty,because these 2 sp are no longer mutually exclusive. and if you want domination victory,you'll probably have puppets,which means that Police State is a good sp to control happiness issues.
     
  12. MkLh

    MkLh King

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    Happiness system is the same regardless of a level. In Deity and Prince you get same 9 initial happiness (albeit is says "from level"), each resource give the same 4, each population point and city costs the same amount of unhappiness, each building, policy and wonder give exactly the same happiness bonus and so on. On prince it may be easier to get SPs and grab all possible happiness-world wonders, but that's it. It's essentially as difficult to maintain a large empire on lower levels than on higher levels, and I'm not sure every player will like it.
     
  13. Civsassin

    Civsassin Immortal

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    @nokmirt
    The issues you mentioned in your last patch don't make sense. If all of the things you mentioned are issues with you game play, drop your level of play, and you'll get the buffs you need. Moreover, the new patch doesn't destroy happiness and expansion; it simply causes players to find new ways to manage happiness. It causes you to adopt different approaches to happines that are more balanced IMO. Consider combinatioins of policies, building, and wonders to manage expansion. Additionally, having negative happiness is not a show stopper. I've had games where I was in the negatives a good deal of the time. The games were still playable and winable.
     
  14. ArcaneSeraph

    ArcaneSeraph Warlord

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    If anyone should be complaining (and I'm not saying they should) it would be tall empires. They are the ones that got a happiness nerf if anyone. In fact I'm pretty darn sure that pretty much all wide empires will have way more sources of happiness now than before... and in many cases on buildings you would've built anyway... oh and the culture costs are going down so there's another boost. Oh and production costs are going down so smaller cities can build things faster... another boost.

    Boy wide empires really got nerfed hard, didn't they? :rolleyes:
     
  15. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    I would love to see a patch without a nerf for once! Culture costs are going down? The point is they never should have been penalized to begin with. :mischief: what are they really up to at Firaxis?
     
  16. Peets

    Peets Emperor Hall of Fame Staff

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  17. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

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    only the first social policies costs are going down. this is to help wide empires to get a bit more social policies and if you read the patch notes,it says that the last social policies are more expensive to compensate the reduction cost of the first social policies.
     
  18. ArcaneSeraph

    ArcaneSeraph Warlord

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    I meant the per city social policy cost multiplier. I should've been clearer :)
     
  19. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

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    That's not what's going on there. The guy set up a good baseline, most definitely paying attention to his happiness, and then went on an end-game expansion spree.

    He's not maintaining a large empire at -400 happiness. He's ignoring his happiness in the end-game push. This isn't even unusual, it's pretty typical. (Though not to the extent he's reaching, -400 is only possible on larger games.)

    My point? Understanding what we're looking at, is all.
     
  20. MkLh

    MkLh King

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