[RD] Happy International Men's Day!

[red_elk]

I also had and still having issues with anxiety and always kind of envied people who are more resilient and able to stay cool under pressure. But I consider it as a weakness, something we should try to get rid of, if we can. Not something we should embrace as our internal quality.

Yes, nobody is perfect and nobody should be shamed for it. Our weaknesses don't make us less "real" men or women, they IMO rather should be the reasons for us to improve ourselves.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't think anyone cares now if you don't play sport or drink beer.

Even beers changing. Spend more drink less.

Never liked beer while younger but I like the new stuff just hardly ever get drunk.

Last night's effort coffee IPA, hazy pilsner, stout and an amber ale.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I don't think anyone cares now if you don't play sport or drink beer.

I don't know about that

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't know about that

Perhaps. Drinking more beer than ever now you just don't get a 12 or 24 pack and get blotto on it.

That might also be an age thing. Hangovers getting brutal now.

 

[The_J]

In a spoiler, since it could as well be a PM, but I'm too lazy...

Spoiler :

If anybody on here is ever feeling suicidal, or you just want somebody to talk to.. no matter what your gender, you can always message me. I am sitting at home pretty much 24/7 and am on chat services like discord, so if anything I would be willing to listen to your issues. I am not a trained psychologist in any sense of the word, but I do know that just talking can make a huge difference. So don't be shy, if you have problems feel free to send me a message. The worst that could happen is we become friends.

Don't.
I know this is well meant, but it's not good.
In the mods forum we had not talked about it (as far as I remember), but the rule about not discussing this has more than one purpose (I think).
Because consider if the feces hit the fan.
If someone logs off after talking to you, and then never logs on again.
Or even worse, logs with with the last words "I'm gonna kill myself".
You know how you'll feel?

I have a not-as-bad experience from another forum, where I was moderator. I was on late in the night. One of the regulars texted me on ICQ (one of these ancient messengers). He was a dry alcoholic (...er... reformed alcoholic, according to some dictionary). After a 3h discussion about his relationship problems, he logged of, last words "I'll go to the gas station and get a six pack of beer".
I did not feel good.

So don't.
Most western countries should have hotlines, which are available 24h. These people should be trained to deal with this. Let them deal with this.

EDIT: More on topic: I celebrate myself every day, I don't need a holiday for it .

 

[AdamCrock]

That might also be an age thing. Hangovers getting brutal now.

Tis' true . I've decided not to drink this Friday evening (like past 2 Fridays) - To tell the truth heavy drinking is awful - physically and emotionally exhausting. In most severe case of a hangover I felt like I don't deserve to be alive. I'm not suicidal don't worry , but the emotional impact of alcohol is truly brutal for me.

 

[Narz]

Drinking beer isn't manly, it raises your estrogen and gives you a belly & boobs

Masculinizing beer is a conspiracy so elite males can steal all the women the average homer Simpson is too impotent to please

All stereotypes about what it means to be a good man/woman/human should be taken w a grain of salt. As Terrance McKenna used to say "culture is not your friend"

What a man should not should not be is up to you. Letting either old school machismo or new school feminism tell you who you're supposed to be is... well, unmanly.

 

[AdamCrock]

I also don't get that watching sports is manly . The only sport I was remotely interested in was ping-pong

 

[Sarin]

Tis' true . I've decided not to drink this Friday evening (like past 2 Fridays) - To tell the truth heavy drinking is awful - physically and emotionally exhausting. In most severe case of a hangover I felt like I don't deserve to be alive. I'm not suicidal don't worry , but the emotional impact of alcohol is truly brutal for me.

Heavy drinking is one of things I've never understood. Oh, I did get blackout drunk a few times. But never had real fun when doing it, or at least not that I remember. What I really know firsthand is how stupid people act when really drunk, because it's usually up to me to prevent the worst, as I'm usually the most sober guy around. I've never gotten used to the taste, and getting drunk is really expensive for me. Slavic liver, I guess. Anything less than whole bottle of hard liquor drunk within less than hour, and I won't get truly drunk.

 

[warpus]

Men are their own worst enemies ultimately.

It seems to me that every man is capable to speak for himself. But sure, philosophically speaking, every human can easily become their own worst enemy. It happens all the time.

@The_J It would have never occurred to me that saying: "Hey, if anyone needs someone to talk to, I'm all ears" might be a negative thing to say, but I get it.

I also don't need a day to celebrate my man-ness, but I think it's an unique annual opportunity to discuss these subjects in a hopefully positive light.

I also don't get that watching sports is manly . The only sport I was remotely interested in was ping-pong

IMO there is no such thing as things that are "manly". These are outdated concepts that need to be thrown away.

If anything, being "manly" should mean that you follow your own path in life and do not just go along with existing gender norms. If you're married being manly might mean being a good partner and not expecting your wife to always cook every meal, perhaps splitting chores along strategic and pragmatic lines rather than outdated gender norms.

At the same time we should not forget that as man we have certain advantages, which can be used to help others. This isn't always the case, but men are generally physically stronger, for instance, meaning that yes, even though it is bit of a gender role.. sometimes helping somebody weaker or smaller to lift something off a shelf could be something "manly" that you can do.

 

[Ajidica]

Drinking beer isn't manly, it raises your estrogen and gives you a belly & boobs

*checks body*
No man boobs and whatever belly is there is due to me being lazy (and the fact I'm probably going to eat 3/4 a pizza tonight).

Think you may be a bit off there, mate.

 

[Zardnaar]

I like women drinking beer. Usually they go wine and cider but the Polynesian girls seem to drink beer more than the Pakeha girls.

My cousin will come have a beer with her partner and the boys so that's kinda cool. Bring a six pack of something and swaps few beers around for variety.

Won't find many women who will drink this though.

 

[GenMarshall]

I understand you are going through some things in life. In many ways it isn't easy being a male, but in even more ways it isn't easy being female either. We are all going through life trying to deal with all of this, so maybe we can deal with this together.

I've always had the feeling that men had to deal with it alone

Women have had it "easier" when it comes to dating, but only from a certain perspective. A male usually does not have to worry about getting sexually assaulted on a first date (or worse). We've been living with gender roles for millions of years, they aren't going away anytime soon.

You've mention males don't have to worry about getting sexually assaulted. I wonder about the rare ones that do get sexually assaulted or harassed by women. Deep down I wished the men who were sexually assaulted or harassed would speak up. But there's an air of stigma that the male victim should not speak about it unless he's open to ridicule.

As such, I prefer to celebrate this day as such - by using it as an opportunity to discuss gender issues and a male's place in today's confusing world, what we can do to improve, and what it even means to be male.

I wish there were more opportunities to discuss and unbox we feel about a male's place in today's confusing world.

Do you have anyone to talk to about this in a professional capacity, such as a therapist? Turning to extremists will not help, it will only radicalize you and make you the very thing you say you despise - dressed up in another uniform, but nevertheless cut from the same cloth.

I think this would be an opportunity to segway about psychology issues and men. Personally, I have no access nor the resources to seek out a therapist. Though this is more of an economic one because I work in retail and don’t have any kind of health insurance. Not to mention the stigma on men seeking out psychological help.

I do agree that turning to extremists does not help at all and does not help with anyone's soul sickness, and that I wished there were guards or interventions in place to slow or completely halt extremist's recruitment efforts. That's why I want to hop onto an advocacy group that puts a stop on the Alt-Right Pipeline on YouTube, since I don't want to see other men get seduced into the rabbit hole. This leads me to feel that we also need more positive male role models for younger boys who have low-self esteem, been bullied, and or marginalized to look up to and offer a positive purpose in life.

 

[warpus]

You've mention males don't have to worry about getting sexually assaulted. I wonder about the rare ones that do get sexually assaulted or harassed by women. Deep down I wished the men who were sexually assaulted or harassed would speak up. But there's an air of stigma that the male victim should not speak about it unless he's open to ridicule.

If you re-read my post, I am pretty sure I didn't say that men can't get sexually assaulted, just that it's something that is common for women to worry about (when they meet somebody new). Meanwhile when a dude goes on a first date, that is rarely a thought in his head (that the date will lead to sexual assault or some other form of violence)

Sexual assault and rape does affect men as well of course, and the stigma of men not seeking help when it happens IS a problem. That's IMO why being told "to man up" does not help, whether it's in the context of an athletic competition or something more serious. When boys are told things like that it will make a huge impression on them, and they'll grow up into people who do not seek help when they face sexual assault or violence (from any gender). That's why I'm fiercely against gender roles of any kind in our society. Many of them seem harmless, but I disagree. The longer we stick to these outdated gender roles, the more we'll continue having problems in society that don't have to exist. Abolishing gender roles will help both men, women, and those who do not self-identify as either.

Of course getting rid of gender roles will not be an overnight project, it will take generations. They aren't going anytime soon. So in the meantime we need temporary solutions for these issues. And in some cases they exist, you just have to find them. My work for instance offers mental health therapy for free, you just have to figure out where to go and where to sign up. I made use of this earlier this year, before the pandemic hit. I ended up in a room with a professional and I unloaded all my concerns on her. It really helped, even though she didn't really do much. But she listened and that really helped me. It really helped just talking about it. Most universities will have such support programs for students as well - and since there is full confidentiality, whatever you say will stay in the room.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you re-read my post, I am pretty sure I didn't say that men can't get sexually assaulted, just that it's something that is common for women to worry about (when they meet somebody new). Meanwhile when a dude goes on a first date, that is rarely a thought in his head (that the date will lead to sexual assault or some other form of violence)

Sexual assault and rape does affect men as well of course, and the stigma of men not seeking help when it happens IS a problem. That's IMO why being told "to man up" does not help, whether it's in the context of an athletic competition or something more serious. When boys are told things like that it will make a huge impression on them, and they'll grow up into people who do not seek help when they face sexual assault or violence (from any gender). That's why I'm fiercely against gender roles of any kind in our society. Many of them seem harmless, but I disagree. The longer we stick to these outdated gender roles, the more we'll continue having problems in society that don't have to exist. Abolishing gender roles will help both men, women, and those who do not self-identify as either.

Of course getting rid of gender roles will not be an overnight project, it will take generations. They aren't going anytime soon. So in the meantime we need temporary solutions for these issues. And in some cases they exist, you just have to find them. My work for instance offers mental health therapy for free, you just have to figure out where to go and where to sign up. I made use of this earlier this year, before the pandemic hit. I ended up in a room with a professional and I unloaded all my concerns on her. It really helped, even though she didn't really do much. But she listened and that really helped me. It really helped just talking about it. Most universities will have such support programs for students as well.

I think men getting sexually assaulted is more from someone they know than random stranger.

Same for women afaik.

 

[warpus]

I think men getting sexually assaulted is more from someone they know than random stranger.

Same for women afaik.

Yeah, but it depends how you define "someone you know" since I believe in the case of women first dates can be an issue. I agree though, from what I remember the stats seem to indicate that it's usually somebody you know (or even live with) who will perpetrate violence against you, statistically speaking.

 

[AdamCrock]

I wish every man had the right to be gentle and emotional and seek out a hug if he needs one without being afraid of the social stigma.

 

[Zardnaar]

I wish every man had the right to be gentle and emotional and seek out a hug if he needs one without being afraid of the social stigma.

I hugged my friend last night. 4 beers later though and it was his birthday. Told him to not expect another one until next year.

He likes hugs though.

 

[GenMarshall]

If you re-read my post, I am pretty sure I didn't say that men can't get sexually assaulted, just that it's something that is common for women to worry about (when they meet somebody new). Meanwhile when a dude goes on a first date, that is rarely a thought in his head (that the date will lead to sexual assault or some other form of violence)

Sexual assault and rape does affect men as well of course, and the stigma of men not seeking help when it happens IS a problem. That's IMO why being told "to man up" does not help, whether it's in the context of an athletic competition or something more serious. When boys are told things like that it will make a huge impression on them, and they'll grow up into people who do not seek help when they face sexual assault or violence (from any gender). That's why I'm fiercely against gender roles of any kind in our society. Many of them seem harmless, but I disagree. The longer we stick to these outdated gender roles, the more we'll continue having problems in society that don't have to exist. Abolishing gender roles will help both men, women, and those who do not self-identify as either.

Sorry if I misread your post, I've been juggling two threads at the same time. If I'm interperating it correctly, it seems that it all funnels down to being told to "man up" does not help in any situation. The only time I've been told to "man up" was deep in my depression when I was told "just man up and be happy". Never thought of it as being a man's issue, but only thought of it as someone being insensitive to my mental condition.

(I had to retype my reply since apparently the forum bugged out and only posted me quoting you)

 

[warpus]

I wish every man had the right to be gentle and emotional and seek out a hug if he needs one without being afraid of the social stigma.

One of my most memorable life experiences happened on January 1st, 2000, at about 12:10am. We were celebrating New Years Eve at my friend's house in Toronto, and after the countdown and fanfare took the elevator down to street level and walked around.

Technically this wasn't the start of the new millenium, but everybody was celebrating it as though it was. There was an especially festive and optimistic feeling in the air, there were groups of people walking around still celebrating, yelling, wooing, and many people on many balconies on many tall apartment buildings doing the same.. and it was just a bit surreal, really, with us also being a bit intoxicated.

I forget exactly how this went down, but somehow I just started running straight at this random guy who I saw walking nearby, with my arms outstretched. Some stranger who was also there with his group of friends, and we just started running at each other with our arms outstretched, we were yelling incoherently, and then we just came together in a big hug, we embraced each other, and spun in a circle. And then 5 or 10 seconds let go and just continued running and ended up with our proper groups of friends again.

So yeah, that was kind of weird, because I think usually if I did that it wouldn't really have worked out this way. But it was just that kind of night, and that was the best spontaneous hug I ever participated in. There was zero judgement, zero stigma, zero anything negative, it was just two random humans coming together in an embrace to celebrate the coming of the new millenium.