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Happy Meal Toys Banned in San Francisco

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Tani Coyote, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. Evil_Abe

    Evil_Abe Warlord

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    My "right" answer: Inform parents about the bad health effects of fast food, and let them know that they can just say no, all without infringing on anyone's right to choose, and without sticking their nose into a company's business plan.

    My honest answer: I propose we do nothing. If parents give in to kids demands and let their kids get fat that's their choice and they have to live with that choice.
     
  2. Thoughtful Thug

    Thoughtful Thug Deity

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    Kids can live withought happy meal toys. And they can sure live without fast food.
     
  3. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Well we should certainly discourage people from sitting in a chair all day. That would be the situation analogous to discouraging kids from fast food.

    Fast food is. Happy Meals are specifically designed to be attractive to kids. Remove a large part of that attraction, and you've removed a large part of the attraction of fast food for kids. No matter how large a contributor you think Happy Meals are, they are a contributor, and decreasing the attractiveness of them will decrease the attraction to fast food accordingly.

    Hey man, I'm just assuming that's what a large part of the objection is, given that I can't really see any other potential problem with this. If someone thinks that some foods themselves are being banned, that's understandable. This objection I don't quite get.

    Congratulations to your parents. Lots of parents are not. Why is making good parenting an easier task a bad thing?

    The same logic could be applied to parents who starve their kids. I'm not saying that starving a child and giving into their fast food demands are the same thing, but the same logic in regards to bad parenting applies. There are some bad choices we just don't let parents make. By banning toys from happy meals, we are simply assisting them in making the right choice.
     
  4. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Cam, you understand that are making a moral arguement and not a logical one, correct?
     
  5. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Yeah, that's a good counterpoint. It really is. The idea that the parents are mainly responsible is a rather powerful one, and it's one that I grip too. There're a lot of problems where one of the more obvious solutions is for 'the parents to care more'.

    BUT, remember that the parents are in a contest of will with their children. And the children want McDonalds. And McDonalds is willing to use every dirty trick to influence the kids into wanting McDonalds. So, one mindset is to ask if the true battle is a contest of will between parents and children. Yeah, it is. No doubt. But it's also parents vs. McDonalds. They've played dirty for decades, and they're sociopaths. Frankly, screw 'em. We're allowed to arrange our laws to advantage parents over McDonalds. Remember, McDonalds literally does not give a crap about us. They will hurt us for money, if they can. The only rules they'll follow are the rules imposed upon them by regulations.
     
  6. useless

    useless Social Justice Rogue

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    Now replace Children with consumers and McDonalds with any other big buisness.
     
  7. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Well it does strike me as odd that so many are disagreeing with me...but no-one has thus far actually explained what is illogical about my argument. This ban is no different in principle to banning coloured packaging for cigarettes. I think it's both moral and logical.
     
  8. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    I'm sorry, how the hell does offering a trinket toy that most kids think sucks some how a "dirty" trick or make anyone a "sociopath?"

    If you are honestly of the opinion that parents can't be entrusted with simply saying no to a happy meal then how can you not at the same time argue for control over everything else as mundane and more importantly CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. We are going to make laws regulating happy meals but NOT vacinations? We are going to make laws regulating happy meals but NOT dental visits per year? We are going to make law concerning happy meals but NOT stomach up or down infant sleeping positions?

    That's how ridiculous this is. We are going to focus on some fifth hand variable that has a tenuous link to the current boogey man at best that requires thousands of abused applications of a perfectly safe and healthy product to have a negative affect anyway (so all these "poison" comparisons are irrelevant) yet we are going to entrust complete authority to that same individual to decide what household chemicals to keep and their proper storage. Its surreal.
     
  9. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    McDonald's marketing is successful because it prey over children that have no "defense" and judgment.
    This is why in Scandinavian countries is even forbidden to make advertisement during cartoons: children don't see the difference and can be effectively brainwashed.

    The state have to protect the weaker parts of its society.
     
  10. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    I congratulate your bravery for saying this. To Americans, that's blasphemy.
     
  11. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    It's preying upon the desires of the uninformed to get them to consume a product that, unbeknown to them, is not good for their health. It's attempting to use a child's ability to annoy their parents in order to sell a product.

    How is fast food a fifth hand variable in a country suffering from an obesity epidemic? McDonalds is actively working against parents by advertising their products in an unethical manner. What is wrong with regulation to prevent parents from having to deal with this subversion of their ability to be a good parent? There is no corporation attempting to undermine a parent's decision to vaccinate their child. There is no corporation attempting to undermine a parent's decision to take their child to the dentist. There is no corporation attempting to undermine a parent's decision to place their infant in a correct sleeping position.

    Preventing unethical advertising and business practices that encourage harmful behaviour (in this case, unhealthy eating) is a pretty basic regulatory step to take.
     
  12. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    McDonalds is a great international symbol of America. By attempting to restrict McDonalds, the liberal left shows their hatred of America again.
     
  13. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Replace the toy with a coupon for a free 15 minutes at the nearest gym. At the gym, give away toys for kids who spend 15 minutes working out.

    That's the American way innit? You want something, you goshdarnit work for it Sonny Jim!

    Win-win-win.
     
  14. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    This might just work! :lol: :goodjob:
     
  15. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    ... Where did I say that there wasn't a problem? I just don't think the most appropriate solution to this one is to reach for the statute books. Parents seem to be handling the issue reasonably well. And the great bug-bear of Happy Meals just seems to be a convenient foil for parents who don't want to take a holistic look at their role as parents, diet and, dare I say it, portion control.

    ... that's called ridicule. But I think you've made my point for me here. Mexican flags anyone?

    Fastfood =/ McDonald's Happy Meal.

    So basically anything that could plausibly contribute to personal bug-bear X should be banned? That's actually scary.

    Remove all instances of fast-food and insert X, where X is whatever you dislike, to get an idea why this is a Bad Thing.

    Don't confuse purchasing a McDonald's Happy Meal with bad parenting. The two are wholly different things.
     
  16. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    Good parenting involves buying your children the right amount of Happy Meals at the right times! :goodjob:
     
  17. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Deity

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  18. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    They're going to become consumerists anyway. Might as well get it over with.

    Even if we "protect" the kids from evil Ronald McDonald, they'll end up buying his things anyway when they get older. Fast food is just too cheap and too convenient for most people. That's why it's such a booming business.

    Much better to try and promote exercise or healthier alternatives via incentives.

    Like, I don't know, free gym memberships? You'd be required to put in a certain amount of hours though to get it totally paid for by the government.

    Alternatively, allow gym memberships to be tax-deductible.
     
  19. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    That's probably not far from the truth. Personally, I preferred KFC to celebrate the few academic achievements I made that were sufficiently awesome to counterbalance all trouble I used to cause.

    What a load of rubbish.
     
  20. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    My thoughts exactly.

    Outside analysis is probably one of the most useful things policymakers could use. Sure, they must pander to their local base. But what's popular may not be the wisest policy.

    Always studying the world and opinions around you can in fact give you a more balanced, likely more-accurate, opinion, and therefore a much better policy if you happen to be a legislator.

    Plus a multitude of opinions is better in general since it presents alternative ideas. This thread has given multiple ideas of how to reduce fast food consumption, none of which involve outright bans on toys. Toys for god's sake.
     

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