Harder to play (Reverse) Pope with v1.17?

Zur

Freaky lozur with spikes
Joined
Dec 23, 2001
Messages
378
Location
Punk Rock Heaven
Has anyone noticed that it's harder to play reverse pope with the new patch? The AI are less willing to dig into their pockets to pay for tech, if it will constrain their growth.

Also, they are more likely to revoke a treaty after 20 turns if they need the gold/turn.

Zur
 
Yes, it is harder to sell techs for profit. The AI players never seem to have much gold and they sell techs very cheaply to each other. It is also much harder to get and maintain a tech lead. Patch 1.17f makes for many strategy adjustments in tech.

The new tech system has gotten as many complaints as anything else in patch 1.17f, so expect another overhaul in tech for the next patch. Keep your fingers crossed.

Again, if anyone at Firaxis is reading along, please focus on the big picture instead of micro issues. The big picture is that Civ III is a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Look for changes that make the game more fun by giving the player more options, more choice in strategy, without making the game too easy.
 
Whether the changes were for good or for worse, making play balance changes after the game is released is a very bold move on their part. There are a lot of areas where things can go wrong.

I believe they intended to make getting tech leads more difficult and they definitely succeeded in that. Before, the game was probably too expoitable using the Reverse Pope. Now, whether they swung too far the other way, that's up to opinion.

1.17f simply calls for new strategies and the game is still quite win-able without getting tech leads. In the couple games I've played on Monarch & Emporer post 1.17f, the strategy that works best for me (I even think playing this way is too easy):

- Despotism/Monarchy. I'm not researching, so Republics & Democracies seem less valuable. Monarchies generate enough gold to buy techs & rush improvements. Using Military Police, mid-range cities are in constant WLTKD & corruption is super-low. I can declare & wage war however & whenever I wish. Furthermore, I don't need cathedrals, police stations, & universities: just units!

- 0% tech & luxury rate until the modern age. Picking up tech after everyone knows it is really cheap, whether I'm buying it for a luxury or cash, or don't mind spending a little to research it myself in 4 turns.

- Staying even/1 step behind in tech. So what? It's nice to get a lead, but so difficult to keep. Actually, IMHO, I find the games more interesting while I'm fighting on even terms.

- Putting the other civs in debt. Well, not in the negative, can't do that, but being in a Monarchy, you don't need extra luxuries. So, I trade extra luxuries & sometimes resources for gpt. I have seen some civs get behind in tech and fail to upgrade units cause they're broke.

- Modern age: Decision time. Keep the ol' Monarchy or switch to Republic/Democracy for getting to the odd tech 1st? Whatever I've felt like. I'll leave that to a gametime decision.

I still haven't come across a game after 1.17f that I've wanted to play any different. It may yet come, but I'll let you know when it does. I'd say so far, 1.17f probably hurts the peaceful building strategy & helps to favour the military (helped even more with reduced city flipping). That's something that I don't like. Perhaps someone has found playing builder/science is easier in 1.17f? Maybe playing Diplomatically is still good though...
 
Originally posted by Robby_Disco
What is the Pope strat? Where can I find some info on it?

Pope is setting science to 0% and buying techs from the civs who discover it and selling to most of the other civs for profit. (not sure why it's called this). It's also known as tech brokering. I don't like this as much since I like a tech lead in addition to a production lead to wage war more easily. One goes for marketplace/banks.

Reverse pope is setting science to max but otherswise similar to pope. One would go for libraries/univs/research centres. After catching up with the AI's you may want to sell selectively to AIs to maintain a tech lead. In practice, I find that playing catch up is easy but keeping a tech lead is not since AIs will trade among themselves. Also, these strats are much harder at diety as the value of the tech goes down quickly as more civs have the tech. Pre-v1.17, I found that it was easy to constrict the AIs' growth by selling at prices they can't possibly afford (eg. 100 gold/turn in industrial age. Imagine how much you could potentially earn if you discover a tech every 4 turns :D ) if they want to continue reserching at a decent level. Post v1.17, they place higher priority on their domestic expenditure b4 paying you for tech.

You can do a search in the forums for pope.

Zur
 
Yes it's harder, but once you do it, the amount of money the AI pays more than makes up for all the trouble.

In my latest game, it's only in the early 1900's that I finally was able to pull it off, after building Theory of Evolution and getting 2 high-demand techs (Atomic Theory and Electronics) that NO AI had.

I went to the other 15 civs... And I got a total of 3 techs (replaceable parts, communism, esionage.. maybe Corporation too), ivory, furs, silks, 1025 gold/turn and some world maps.

Ah yeah, life is good... :king:
 
Originally posted by chiefpaco
- Despotism/Monarchy. I'm not researching, so Republics & Democracies seem less valuable. Monarchies generate enough gold to buy techs & rush improvements. Using Military Police, mid-range cities are in constant WLTKD & corruption is super-low. I can declare & wage war however & whenever I wish. Furthermore, I don't need cathedrals, police stations, & universities: just units!

I use the same starategy only, I got o republic so I have more
money that I use to hurry improvements. In terms of happiness,
you can use the extra cash to purchase luxuries.
 
Back
Top Bottom