Hardest CIV

The Hardest CIV

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hardest to complete and to achieve what ??
 
what about a much needed "other, explain" option ? How can you ask what's the hardest UHV (shouldn't have asked Civ) if you only list 4 ? That's rather a poll about the hardest among those 4.
 
No comment. Havem't played them all yet. =P
 
Ethiopia. Christianity generally gets founded the turn after you start, meaning you're trying to get Islam before Arabia starts... With no way to generate Great Prophets. And your starting lands are crap for research. Ouch.

I've been within spitting distance of Mongolia's UHV on my first try, won the Mayan UHV, and won the India UHV (found Takashila as your capitol!), all on monarch. Haven't tried Inca or Mali yet.
 
Squirrelloid said:
Ethiopia. Christianity generally gets founded the turn after you start, meaning you're trying to get Islam before Arabia starts... With no way to generate Great Prophets. And your starting lands are crap for research. Ouch.

I've been within spitting distance of Mongolia's UHV on my first try, won the Mayan UHV, and won the India UHV (found Takashila as your capitol!), all on monarch. Haven't tried Inca or Mali yet.
Click to expand...

I've done Ethiopia so have a couple of others the problem is the last UHV goal doesnt trigger so its bugged. Rhye is fixing it in the next patch I think. :D I uploaded a save someplace.

I could use some help with Mongolia though.
 
Zdarg said:
Babelon seems impossible to me. I've made first condition, but after that I see no way to beat Deli on culture.
Click to expand...

So, the strategy guide on the wiki is out of date apparently. This is what worked for me. (Maybe i should post this is the strategy thread...).

Tech:
Beeline pottery/writing immediately. Then grab Animal Handling, Mysticism -> Masonry. Then Hunting -> Archery. Now grab Meditation -> Priesthood -> Monarchy. (CoL will be via Oracle)

Opening Moves:
Build a worker in Babylon, then start a granary. The worker should cottage the marble (this is important), then any non-stone floodplains tile. (By the time you finish the 2nd cottage you'll be size 3, so it doesn't matter if its on the stone or not, and you'll want to quarry that).

When you get writing, switch to the library immediately - you'll still finish the granary before the wheat comes online (stolen from Shush), which is why it really matters.

Send your initial warrior ENE to the hut in N. Pakistan. Hope for some xp along the way - I got 4 angry villagers from the hut for a cool 5 xp = 2 promotions. I went with city attack 1+2 (see below). Don't worry about city defense yet - Hattusa will be the first military threat, and Sur should deal with them for you.

India:
Heal and head to Delhi. Its a crap shoot, but you should have a decent shot at killing Delhi's one warrior if you've got 2 city attack. I got it without even having to save/reload/wait. (something about 50%).

A safer way to do this would be to research archery a little earlier, and build a bowman or two to send to India - they won't prioritize researching archery unless you declare on them, so in that case don't with the warrior. If you don't get the xp, then this is certainly what you'll have to do - an un-upgraded warrior has no chance. But their warriors will get eaten by Bowmen.

Regardless, when you take Delhi, raze it to the ground (their culture will still count if the city is there). The warrior should be sent back to Babylon for garrison/happiness duty whether you use him to take Delhi or not.

Babylon again:
You can't get Stonehenge first, so don't even try - Egypt will build it long before you do. Instead, focus on the Pyramids and the Oracle. Your worker should fence in the sheep after the second cottage, and then quarry the stone, which should come online near when you're starting the Pyramids. As strange as it sounds, finish the Pyramids first before doing the Oracle, even though Oracle is arguably in more risk of being stolen (it wasn't on me). Your worker should finish connecting/farming the wheat next (depending on what Shush accomplished), and then might consider Quarrying the marble for the Oracle. I do focus on production squares over unsustainable growth at this point to get the wonder culture earlier. (Hit size 5 and then maximize production).

Egypt:
Sur should flip almost immediately after you finish archery, giving you a Bowman. (Disband Sur). Send that Bowman to Egypt - their capitol's early Stonehenge will be near impossible to overcome culturally (and they founded Judaism in my game, which was a nightmare). Of course, they should have nothing but warriors - one Bowman with decent luck should trample them. If (it didn't in my game) Shush flips, send its Bowman too. The key is to take the Egyptian capitol quickly after you declare, because they'll tech archery and build archers if you give them breathing room. (Note, before attacking, its probably best to pillage a road from their capitol to another city, to make it harder for them to reinforce). I had no problem using only one Bowman.

Raze their capitol to the ground.

End game:
You just finished Oracle and popped CoL with it. A few turns later Monarchy finishes. You've finished your tech goals and you're within about 10 turns of your deadline for the other two.

Your only real competitor at this point is Beijing, and its a population competitor. The first thing to do is switch to Monarchy immediately - you'll need the happiness. Prioritize food from here on out, and crank out warriors to keep your people happy. You should have enough time to beat Beijing by 1 (I finished at Pop 8 to their Pop 7 and about to grow next turn. Of course, i lost the Wheat near Shush when Persia spawned which hurt a lot - if Shush flips and you disband it, you should be size 9 easily).

Edit: The above was on Monarch difficulty, and i tried multiple runs using the same initial save with different strategies, but never tried to repeat this.
 
FWIW, this morning I played a non-warmongering Babylon (Monarch level) and won a UHV victory. I think there was a lot of luck involved, so I'll just give notes on my game here instead of in the Strategy thread.

For techs, I researched Pottery-Writing-Mysticism-Masonry-Meditation-Priesthood-Animal Husbandry-Code of Laws.

In Babylon itself I built a Warrior and then started on a Granary. Just before I got Mysticism I switched to a Worker so that the Worker and Masonry would pop on the same turn. Then I went back to the Granary (with about 3 turns to go). After that, I did Pyramids and Oracle (after getting Priesthood).

While building those I had my Worker quarry the Stone and the Marble. As a result I built the Pyramids on Turn 60 and the Oracle on Turn 67. I used the Oracle to grab Monarchy before the Persians could spawn. I wasn't much worried about anyone getting to Code of Laws before me.

I let my Worker cottage a flood plain until I got Animal Husbandry, then sent him up to improve the Sheep square. After he was done there, I just put him to work cottaging more flood plains.

All this time I had concentrated on growing my population in Babylon by working the flood plains. Only when I started on the Pyramids and Oracle did I let my city governor put someone to work on the three-hammer forested hill to the northeast; all other times, I manually moved my guys on to the flood plains.

Now, here is where I think the luck played a huge part: Egypt never built Stonehenge. I was astonished to see it was still available after I built the Oracle, so I started work on it. And I managed to build it, too. After that, I just built Warriors (I had switched to Hereditary Rule after getting Monarchy) to keep my citizens happy.

Babylon met the population and culture UHVs, and I won on turn 88 when I got Code of Laws. My population was 10 (Delhi was second with 8). My score was 10031, which was enough to get my a Constantine-level rating, much to my surprise.

I never sent my Warrior out exploring, so I got no benefits from goodie huts. Sur flipped to me, but I disbanded it. The Independents never managed to take Hattusas, and just before the game ended it also flipped to me; I disbanded it too. Shushan remained independent until it flipped to the Persians.
 
Mxzs said:
Now, here is where I think the luck played a huge part: Egypt never built Stonehenge. .
Click to expand...

Weird. Really weird.

In addition to a number of starts from the same initial save (in which i can understand if Egypt always does the same thing that early), i also tried 4 or 5 fresh starts. Egypt still always built stonehenge long before i ever could. Every time I've played India I'll also lose Stonehenge to Egypt if i don't go for it really early. I figured this was Egypt actually going for their UHV...

So apparently once in a blue moon egypt does something other than settler->stonehenge (or something like that)...
 
Squirrelloid said:
So, the strategy guide on the wiki is out of date apparently. This is what worked for me. (Maybe i should post this is the strategy thread...).

Tech:
Beeline pottery/writing immediately. Then grab Animal Handling, Mysticism -> Masonry. Then Hunting -> Archery. Now grab Meditation -> Priesthood -> Monarchy. (CoL will be via Oracle)

Opening Moves:
Build a worker in Babylon, then start a granary. The worker should cottage the marble (this is important), then any non-stone floodplains tile. (By the time you finish the 2nd cottage you'll be size 3, so it doesn't matter if its on the stone or not, and you'll want to quarry that).

When you get writing, switch to the library immediately - you'll still finish the granary before the wheat comes online (stolen from Shush), which is why it really matters.

Send your initial warrior ENE to the hut in N. Pakistan. Hope for some xp along the way - I got 4 angry villagers from the hut for a cool 5 xp = 2 promotions. I went with city attack 1+2 (see below). Don't worry about city defense yet - Hattusa will be the first military threat, and Sur should deal with them for you.

India:
Heal and head to Delhi. Its a crap shoot, but you should have a decent shot at killing Delhi's one warrior if you've got 2 city attack. I got it without even having to save/reload/wait. (something about 50%).

A safer way to do this would be to research archery a little earlier, and build a bowman or two to send to India - they won't prioritize researching archery unless you declare on them, so in that case don't with the warrior. If you don't get the xp, then this is certainly what you'll have to do - an un-upgraded warrior has no chance. But their warriors will get eaten by Bowmen.

Regardless, when you take Delhi, raze it to the ground (their culture will still count if the city is there). The warrior should be sent back to Babylon for garrison/happiness duty whether you use him to take Delhi or not.

Babylon again:
You can't get Stonehenge first, so don't even try - Egypt will build it long before you do. Instead, focus on the Pyramids and the Oracle. Your worker should fence in the sheep after the second cottage, and then quarry the stone, which should come online near when you're starting the Pyramids. As strange as it sounds, finish the Pyramids first before doing the Oracle, even though Oracle is arguably in more risk of being stolen (it wasn't on me). Your worker should finish connecting/farming the wheat next (depending on what Shush accomplished), and then might consider Quarrying the marble for the Oracle. I do focus on production squares over unsustainable growth at this point to get the wonder culture earlier. (Hit size 5 and then maximize production).

Egypt:
Sur should flip almost immediately after you finish archery, giving you a Bowman. (Disband Sur). Send that Bowman to Egypt - their capitol's early Stonehenge will be near impossible to overcome culturally (and they founded Judaism in my game, which was a nightmare). Of course, they should have nothing but warriors - one Bowman with decent luck should trample them. If (it didn't in my game) Shush flips, send its Bowman too. The key is to take the Egyptian capitol quickly after you declare, because they'll tech archery and build archers if you give them breathing room. (Note, before attacking, its probably best to pillage a road from their capitol to another city, to make it harder for them to reinforce). I had no problem using only one Bowman.

Raze their capitol to the ground.

End game:
You just finished Oracle and popped CoL with it. A few turns later Monarchy finishes. You've finished your tech goals and you're within about 10 turns of your deadline for the other two.

Your only real competitor at this point is Beijing, and its a population competitor. The first thing to do is switch to Monarchy immediately - you'll need the happiness. Prioritize food from here on out, and crank out warriors to keep your people happy. You should have enough time to beat Beijing by 1 (I finished at Pop 8 to their Pop 7 and about to grow next turn. Of course, i lost the Wheat near Shush when Persia spawned which hurt a lot - if Shush flips and you disband it, you should be size 9 easily).

Edit: The above was on Monarch difficulty, and i tried multiple runs using the same initial save with different strategies, but never tried to repeat this.
Click to expand...

Can you explain to me why it's important to cottage the marble?
 
you want to work that marble because of the production and you want to have the extra commerce from the cottage. You can't quarry it until masonry so that's why. Remember that you only can work few tiles and the race to writing is really close, so every single beaker extra is important.
 
wr4th said:
you want to work that marble because of the production and you want to have the extra commerce from the cottage. You can't quarry it until masonry so that's why. Remember that you only can work few tiles and the race to writing is really close, so every single beaker extra is important.
Click to expand...

I know, but there are other places to place cottages. Are you saying that that tile in particular has extra benefits? I'm kind of a uninformed player when it comes to these sort of things.
 
The marmor tile produces 3/1/1, the usual floodplain only 3/0/1. Cottage is the same for both (0/0/+1). If you go worker first, your worker will be busy with cottage on marble, pasture on sheep, quarry stone and only then quarry the marble. So you have about 20 turns while your cottage is being worked and during that time your pop wont excede 4, so you will be working the stone, marble, sheep and wooded hill tile just for the production, since you need to build granary, library, pyramids and oracle asap. Thats why a cottage on a different tile is pretty much useless.
If you go warrior, warrior, start granary, change to worker at pop 3, then you will of course not built the initial cottage, but you will start quarrys right away, since you already researched masonry at that point.
 
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