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hardest great work wonders to fill?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by regalman, Aug 6, 2013.

?

which of these wonders is the hardest to get a theming bonus?

  1. Louvre

    24.1%
  2. Uffizi

    8.6%
  3. hermitage

    10.3%
  4. Broadway

    41.4%
  5. Sydney Opera House

    10.3%
  6. Great Library/Oxford university

    1.7%
  7. Globe theater

    1.7%
  8. Sistine Chapel

    1.7%
  1. regalman

    regalman Reckless Dolphin

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    which of these is the hardest to fill and get a THEMING BONUS ?

    1. Louvre
    2. Uffizi
    3. hermitage
    4. broadway
    5. Sydney Opera House
    6. great library/oxford university
    7. globe theater
    8. sistine chapel
     
  2. Teaf

    Teaf Warlord

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    Broadway.

    Trying to squeeze out 3 GM's in one era and resisting the urge to concert them is, I find, very hard.
     
  3. niftymbm

    niftymbm Chieftain

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    Why would you want to concert them so early? Their output's kind of insignificant when you can start building them imo.
     
  4. Scott Jegg

    Scott Jegg Warlord

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    You get a free one, so it's only two you need to build. If you don't build the musician's guild until you are closing in on radio, you can get those two out pretty quickly.
     
  5. Scott Jegg

    Scott Jegg Warlord

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    hermitage is probably the hardest, because you will probably build it after sistine, uffizi, and the louvre, meaning GA creation has really slowed by that point. It's not even the hardest really, probably just that last one to get done.

    The only other ones that really require timing are Uffizi, Globe Theatre, and Broadway.

    If you don't build the artists guild or musicians guild until you are approaching renaissance and modern era, respectively, you will get the two GPs quite quickly to complement the free ones from Uffizi and Broadway.

    Globe Theatre just requires you to make sure a GW is produced in the same era it's built.

    The rest you will just be swapping with the AI. Not really difficult, just nitpicky.
     
  6. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    Lourve is not as difficult as it seems, if you plan to built it you seriously just need to go out and scout for the sites, I mean, I managed to get the themeing bonus quite fast.
     
  7. sonicandfffan

    sonicandfffan Warlord

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    Broadway, because great musicians are better suited to bombing.

    Assume your tourism output is +100 (not unreasonable at that stage of the game with theming bonuses and dig sites if you're serious about a cultural victory), that means your bomb is worth 1000.

    That means your +2 per turn great musician will produce more tourism than his bomb in 500 turns. Even if you have max bonuses (+75%) you will only get +3.5 out of him a turn which he will produce in 285 turns. It's seriously not worth it, the bomb is nearly always better.

    That's without accounting for the fact that the bomb will often bump up your influence level over a civ which will increase your ideology pressure and reduce their happiness (or increase your happiness if they have pressure over you).
     
  8. That Other Guy

    That Other Guy Chieftain

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    The Sydney Opera House at Ecology, nearly two eras(!) after Broadway at Radio. It's so late that any great musicians would be much better spent on concerts, so unless you've already got the pieces parked in opera houses or something, you'll never fill it.

    I guess it isn't so much hard to fill as not worth filling.
     
  9. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    Broadway is very easy if you plan for it - save a musician from late industrial era, and pop it into a GW on Modern era. Build Broadway and get another, and you should get one more naturally before Atomic era.
     
  10. simonthesinner

    simonthesinner Chieftain

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    Brodway. I usually have 2 renessance, 2 industrial and one modern (the one from Brodway) GMs when I have built it. Then I'll have to wait for 2 more to spawn until I can get the bonus. No other one civ have 3 GMs from the same era to trade.

    The second I get The louvre, I can trade random crap for other civs, eras random crap and get the bonus immediately.
     
  11. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    Especially since you can't trade music at all.
     
  12. Ryoga

    Ryoga King

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    Still the question here is not whether the Broadway is objectively hard to fill or not, the question is which is the "hardest" compared to the rest.

    It's absolutely feasible to fill up the Broadway, but it requires more planning than any other cultural wonder.
     
  13. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    When I'm playing as Korea I plan on filling those wonders and spawn GWAMs at the right time so I never find those "hard" to get. However if I had to pick one harder than others, that's Broadway.
     
  14. simonthesinner

    simonthesinner Chieftain

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    and you probably can't even blitz someones capital for 3 great works of music from the same era.
     
  15. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    Fair enough, but I think art still takes the top prize for having the most slots to theme: 2 in Louvre, 2 in Sistine, 3 in Uffizi, 3 in Hermitage. In total, you need 10 Great Works of Art while you can get total music theming bonuses with just five pieces and total writing theming bonuses with just six pieces.

    While each individual art building may be easy to theme in theory, you need art in large amounts compared to music and writing to unlock all the bonuses.
     
  16. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    For me it's Broadway. So difficile
     
  17. Crafty Bison

    Crafty Bison King

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    I forget, which one is the one out of hermitage and uffuzi that needs them all to be the same era and civ? It's that one, because of all the other art slots. Broadway you can do 3 in 1 era before tourism bombing, because you can wait till you got gardens, sp's and maybe pisa, but hermitage you probably already got a couple in different eras before, so need longer for the 3 in 1 era. You get 1 from uffuzi, but 1 from broadway so It cancels out.
     
  18. wigwam

    wigwam Prince

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    You're missing some numbers there. The three Great Works of Music will each be producing 2 tourism per turn (3 with a Hotel, then 4 with an Airport, then 6 with the Visitor Center), but you'll also be getting 6 from the theming bonus (12 as France). You might get another +50% on top of all that from World Religion, and as much as +68% from ideology. +100% with International Games, +100% during a Golden Age as Brazil. And then up to 75% on top of that. And another +100% with the Internet, eventually.

    Conservatively, let's say you've just got a Hotel, you're not France or Brazil, you don't have the International Games bonus, you don't have the World Religion, and you're only getting +34% from ideology (you went Freedom). That's 15 for the Great Works plus the theming bonus, or 5 tourism per turn for each Great Work. Let's fudge the numbers, just to make it simple, and say that your average bonus for religion/trade routes/open borders is 66% (I admit this is a little high). That means each Great Work is producing 10 tourism per turn.

    If you have seven opponents (Standard map), that's 70 per turn. The Great Musician will deliver 1000 to only one civ; the rest will get 200, for a total of 2200, so a Great Work will outproduce a Concert Tour in 32 turns.

    Now it's true that the Great Musician allows you to direct that tourism where it's needed most, whereas the Great Works will be wasting some on civs you're already dominating, but they'll also make later Concert Tours stronger. The Great Works will produce more and more as the game continues and you add bonuses; in the Information era, with the Visitor Center and the Internet, you'll get about 25 tourism per Great Work per turn. In an extreme situation, as France or Brazil with both Order bonuses working, you could get almost 60 tourism per turn from each Great Work. This means that a Concert Tour at that point in the game will be worth an extra 750-1800 tourism just from the three Great Works in Broadway (on top of all the tourism the Great Works generated in the intervening turns).

    tl;dr: it's better to fill Broadway than to use those Musicians for Concert Tours unless you're already dominating most of your opponents and are relatively close to dominating the last 1-3.
     
  19. Tachii

    Tachii Procrastinator

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    The hardest is filling up both Hermitage and Louvre. :(

    Also, that moment when you lead in tech but has crappy hammers to make enough Archaelogists to find the right Artifacts for the louvre.
    :(.
     
  20. niftymbm

    niftymbm Chieftain

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    But you don't even have to find the right artifacts. You just have to swap them.
    It might actually be harder to theme a regular museum at times.
     

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