Harv's Civ6 Tour of Historical Learders - Current Game 7 - Pointy Hat Scythian Horse Lords

Harv · Jan 21, 2023

Current game is 7. Link is:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...t-game-6-cyrus-of-persia.681684/post-16424493

Earlier games

Spoiler :

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Game 5 - Dido of Carthage

A variation of an All-Leaders-Challenge is to put them into some kind of chronological order. I started by retrieving my copy of an old History of the World game and looking at the cards to get some ideas. The four games played so far are:

2300BC Sumerians / Gilgamesh / Sargon of Akkad
1750BC Babylonians / Hammurabi
......
480BC Greeks / Gorgo of Sparta
......
50BC Egyptians / Cleopatra

For this game, we will play Dido of Carthage. I placed her about 810BC. As I explore the list of leaders, I might find some that are earlier than that. However it is very difficult to find anything earlier than 1200BC, because we have a couple of Dark Ages separating.

Spoiler :

Settings are in the pictures, but will repeat them for those who have trouble viewing pictures.
Gathering Storm.
Dido.
Emperor Difficulty - We are bumping up from Monarch. I have to look up what this setting means.
Standard game speed
Inland Sea - Tyre and Carthage were on the Mediterranean and we are achievement hunting and we thought this was fitting.
Large Map - It will take longer, but again achievement hunting over learning.
Monopolies and Corporations - With the difficulty change, I did not want to do too many rule changes, but this is a trading nation and I thought it would be fitting to give it a try.

Founder of Carthage
Even if we don't move the capital, it looks like we should finally build a Government Plaza, because each building gets another trade route. It also looks like we get a discount towards districts in the city that has the government plaza. The combination might be to build the Plaza in the Capital city, then move the capital.

Mediterranean Colonies
The Writing Eureka is worth 20s in the unlikely event we do not meet another civilization before research Writing.
We also get move and sight bonuses for embarking our Settlers.

Cothon is our unique district
Bireme is our unique unit

Here is our start:

Spoiler :

One option is we can settle on the Tea, right next to the Nabro Volcano. We can also embark right away and see where the Jordan River meets the Sea.

This time, we are actually stating this game blind!

Harv · Jan 22, 2023

Session Aleph - Turn 17 3360BC - We are not Alone

T1 4000BC - Our home continent is called Kernorland. Our Warrior has nothing to see by moving towards the Settler, so he started exploring westward. The Settler moved to the Tea. A bad volcano ends this game on Turn 2, right? From here, we can see where the Jordan River enters the Pacific Ocean. On the other side are Mountains, so there are no great settling options along the river.

T2 3960BC - The Warrior found Cliffs and Crabs to the west, a very easily defended coastal city site, for when we need it. We founded Tyre on the Tea. What can go wrong? All mountains smoke a little. The river also has a flood plain.
Tyre gets (2f 5h 5g 3.5s 1.3c). So it has an advantage of 1h and 1s over what I consider to be a "standard" city. It is okay, because we claimed a bonus in both the city tile and the tile we are working.

T4 3880BC - All mountains smoke a little, but now it looks like it is smoking a lot. Are we going to get a catastrophic eruption on T5, wiping out our one and only population?
T5 3840BC - We are starting to see some snow to the south. Did the Ice Age not end?
T7 3760BC - We found a big source of sugar. One day we might corner this market.
T8 3720BC - Contact with Samarkand and a free Envoy. The good news is this is a lot of security for the lands to the south of us. The bad news is it is a limit to expansion into those same lands. We are a mostly a coastal city, anyway and we might do well to remember this.
Our first Scout is ready in Tyre.
T9 3680BC - We discovered Kazakhstania, a new continent.

T10 3640BC - It turns out we are not alone on this continent. We encountered Perry of Athens. Worse, he stole our first Tribal Village.
Our first research was Animal Husbandry from 25s.
Tyre also claimed the 3f cow tile and grew to Size 2. The cow tile does us little good this early in the game. We did not start with fresh water and our housing level is 4. When we grow to Size 3, we will lose half our food bonus. We need more hammers.

Spoiler :

It looks like we might be fighting Perry for an amazing Science spot - and we would have done well to stop right here and post a save. We can still do this.
-----------------------------

T15 3440BC - Our first Slinger is ready.
T16 3400BC - Mining 25s.
T17 3360BC - Code of Laws 20c - 15T to Foreign Trade

The list of (bad) choices we made so far:
City right next to a Volcano - remains to be seen
Animal Husbandry first. Mining second. I like to see where the Horses are.
T10 continuing to build the Slinger when I suspect a Settler race.

The next big choice is what cards to play. Normally I go with Discipline and God King.
Discipline is still the choice. Our Scout is in no position to gain experience and we are still guaranteed to meet Barbarians.
God King, because we have no source of Faith and the longer we wait, the more expensive it gets. Right now, we are converting 1h into 1g and 1 faith.

On the other hand - We did say we were in a Settler race and every production helps. Here is the map of our situation.

Spoiler :

When I look at this map again, maybe the 3s Campus is not as important as initially imagined. Looking further, we might have a similar site right where we are in Tyre. We can claim the Sugar and have another fast-growing city with no source of hammers. There is also a horse tile we should try to claim.

Harv · Jan 22, 2023

Session Bet - Turn 31 - 2800BC - The Barbarians Arrive!

We start this session with a Eureka moment. It was kind of cute that the symbol used for Phoenicians is their letter Aleph and I chose to name sessions after Phoenician letters. Then I noticed their theme color is purple and it only took me a day to understand why that is. :hammer2:

T18 3320BC - Suddenly a Barb Scout materialized at 5,0. The Barb Camp is at 4,1. This is close to the area we were talking about earlier where we can get a great Campus and a choke point against Perry.
T19 3280BC - Did that Scout just spot Sparta? Does that mean Perry will have a Barbarian invasion to wrestle with for a while?

Spoiler :

T20 3240BC - Another Barb Scout at 2W2S. We can't retreat our units anymore. We have our own Barb Camp to deal with. Our Slinger threw a couple rocks to make them go away, doing a surprising 51 points of damage.
T22 3180BC - Pottery at 25s. Size 3. Claimed Fish Tile 2f1g.
At Size 3 we are already running into housing problems. Our surplus of 3f is reduced to 1.5f and it is like our third tile is a very weak 1.5f0h. We are 6 Turns from our first Settler.

T24 3080BC - A Barbarian Camp materialized at 3W4S and we have to stop chasing that Scout.
T25 3040BC - We start pounding on the Camp and lost 30-27. The slinger will chase the Spearman out and make it easier to kill. It works every time.
T26 3000BC - Our Scout sacked the camp, winning 40g. The Warrior attacked the Spear now exposed in the open. The Slinger finished it off. This is the entirety of our forces in action. This is teamwork.
The gold was enough for us to buy our first Builder. We might as well. We need help with production and we can capture some Eureka.

Spoiler :

T27 2960BC - Slinger got a promotion to L1 Volley.
We took a mulligan on this turn, because I completely forgot about that rogue scout and it went after our Builder and Settler.
The Scout went back to look for the rogue Scout and the Warrior moved to try to lock them in. Our Scout got hit for 18hp, so eventually a 2 turn rest.

T28 2920BC - Settler for 80h. We will settle to the west along the coast. It will never have fresh water, but it will have some hammers and we need hammers.
The Warrior crossed the Jordan River to deal with the Scout. The Scout went back to exploring.
For production, we have so many options I made a not to myself to post a save at this turn. A Granary gets us to Size 4 quicker, but that does not win us any hammers. A Monument will get us into the Civics Arms Race a little faster. Units are usually the best choice and I actually favor Slingers, because they have a cheap upgrade option to Archers. If we feel secure, then we can go with another Settler.
I ended up going with the Monument.

T29 2880BC - Sailing at 30/50s. Our warrior traded blows with the Scout and killed it, surviving with 21hp and an upcoming promotion.
T30 2840BC - We exchanged delegations with Perry. Our Warrior is promoted to L1 Battlecry. We built the Cattle Ranch and obtained the HBR Eureka.

T31 2800BC - Foreign Trade. 25T to Craftsmanship.
Here is our situation to the west of the Jordan River.

Spoiler :

The advice I usually get is to go west.
The mine is going to die some time between the Classical and Medieval era, because we will need an Aqueduct.
We didn't believe a Deer Camp was worth it. It's 2g. The last builder charge will get us a quarry and eureka and city producing 2f5h.
The monument will get us to Craftsmanship a little bit faster, hopefully in 11 Turns.

We will stay with Discipline and God King. Discipline because it keeps our units alive and we are not building any ships yet. God King, because we are grinding our way towards a pantheon. We got the first 14 or 15 Faith for 15h, less 15g. The next group will cost 2h. We might try to time our next civic to avoid using God King more than we have to.

Harv · Jan 22, 2023

Session Gimel - Turn 42 - 2360BC - The Abgad Soup Goddess of the Reeds and Marshes

There are some stories I can think of. One is alphabetical order remains about the same from language to language, alphabet to alphabet, and even abgad to alphabet. I imagine it is because somebody about 3000 years ago, some Phoenician priest, made up a memento and a song.

Another is about 2700 years ago, the Etruscans could not distinguish between a g and a k and for them the redundant letter was k. I should look up their alphabet some time. To this day, we have silly rules on when c sounds like s and when it makes a k. However, the letter c is not redundant in our alphabet. The letter g is. I understand the Romans modified it to make the distinction easier.

We took a T28 mulligan, because the barbarian camp Perry was supposed to take care of sent a scout in our direction. So we backed up 3 turns instead of 100, just in case that camp decides to get personal with us and sends hundreds of warriors our way.

T31 2760BC - We spied a Barbarian Horse far to the west. Fortunately, we spotted it very early and could move our Scout to a safer location. Somebody must have triggered a Barbarian Camp. They took it personally and chased our scout all the way to the Tundra.
T32 2720BC - We founded Utica. Meanwhile to the east of us, where did this Scout come from?

Spoiler :

We can get one swing at it before it runs across the river. When it does, we can finish it off.

T33 2720BC - Slinger 2 is ready.

T34 2680BC - The Scout actually ran right into our city. Maybe it was because there was nowhere to go. It made an easy kill and we got the Eureka for Bronze Working.
We also discovered Great Slave Lake. Does this mean we are going to encounter Canada to our west? I have not played against Canada in a Civ6 game yet.
Perry chose to follow the God of the Forge.

T35 240BC - Tyre is back up to Size 3 and housing problems. Now it is more like our third tile is 1.5f1h. It is not quite as good as 2f1h.
We built a Quarry for Utica, giving it 2f5h. We got the Eureka for Masonry and Inspiration for Craftsmanship.
T36 2600BC - Archery for 30/50s.
T37 2560BC - Somebody already built the Pyramids. It must have been the Egyptians. Maybe it was their Nubian counterfeits. Or the Mayans. Or the Aztecs.
How close is this to the generally accepted historical date?
T38 2520BC - Exploring the ice and snow to the south of us, we encountered Attacko's Ice Archers!

Spoiler :

We were not sure if we could defeat it alone with 1 Scout, so we retreated. Perry's camp is sending a Warrior our way and it attacked our Slinger 2, who was easily able to counter for a win. We will press on towards the Camp.

T39 2480BC - Trader 1 is ready in Tyre and it turns out Sparta already has a Campus. So we can trade with them and basically get 3g1s for 1f1h. Given that we are struggling for housing, trading away the 1f seems good. This gets a the Eureka for Currency.

Spoiler :

Meanwhile, Perry says we don't have enough troops. I guess this explains why we are sending them to clean out his Barbarian Camp.

T40 2440BC - Our Slinger smacked the Barb Scout and sent them running. This is enough for a promotion.
The Jordan River had a moderate flood.
T41 2400BC - Slinger 2 is now L1 Volley.
T42 2360BC - Our Pantheon is now ready and we must choose. Here is a map of our situation.

Spoiler :

T42 is pretty late. It's basically 25 Turns after we got Code of Laws. It means we get to pick from what is left over.
Sacred Path. No. We have Tundra nearby and no Rainforest.
Monument to the Gods. No. We are in no position to build Wonders.
River Goddess - We have to read this carefully. It says 2 Amenities and 2 Housing for Cities with Holy Site on a River? If I read this correctly, that means we need a city to build a Holy Site in order to claim the bonus. So no. Our river ends up in the Tundra.
Divine Spark. Extra GPP for a Library. We are a long way from benefiting from that. We have a single Campus we might build.
Reeds and Marshes - Now we're talking! Just looking at the picture, I saw 10 Marshes that can benefit from this.
Sea - I saw 6 water resources nearby, so we can pick up 6 hammers.
Sky - We get 1 culture right now and maybe 7 later.
Hunt - I only see one spot for a camp and we might clear it up later.
Stone Circles - We also have one spot that already benefits.
Idols - I see no mineable bonus or luxury resources.
Craftsmen - We have at least 3 horse.
Festivals - There are some Plantations we can build. We also have a habit of building on top of them.
Healing. War. No.
Earth. I have not been good at building up tile appeal.
Fire. Tried that a couple of games ago on two volcanos that never went off.
Fertility. Builder and some bonus growth. Not impressed.
City Patron. We can count how many cities we will build with first district.

If we are going faithless, then Reeds and Marshes might be our choice. It seems like a lot more hammers than the City Patron.

Next turn we will have Craftsmanship. Then it is a long haul to Early Empire - or actually the Classical Era. The timeline I see is:
19 Turns to Classical.
18 Turns to Early Empire Inspiration. We can reduce this to 15 Turns by changing the build in Tyre.
We might get it in 14 Turns with a new city. 3 in Tyre. 2 in Utica. 1 in New Town.
Doesn't Carthage mean New Town?
We might be able to work out how much charity bonus we get if we delay our next civic to the Classical Era.

For Civics, we can change to:
Discipline - We are about to fight a Barbarian Camp, so we need it.
If we want to build two Biremes, then we can make a switch to Maritime Industries.
If we want to build more units, then we can switch to Agoge.
Urban Planning - We are finished with God-King and got what we wanted. Basically we paid 37h to get 26g and 26 faith. 25 of the faith is invested in the pantheon. Most likely this is Lady of the Marshes and we will get a 2h return in several more turns.

The next big decision we should make is our preparation for the Classical Era. Do we go Dark or Normal?
Right now, our era score is at 5. We need 6 more to get a normal age. We might get that simply by building a Bireme.
4 points for building our unique unit
3 points if we are the first naval unit
2 points for clearing the barbarian camp
If we are going dark age, then we can push 4 or 6 points into the Classical Era.

Harv · Jan 22, 2023

Session Dalet - Turn 57 1760 BC - Dalet is for Dark Age

T42 2360BC - We went with Lady of the Reeds and Marshes. Inspiration to Mysticism.
60g We buy a Marsh Tile. Over by Sparta, we start attacking the Barb Camp.

Spoiler :

T43 2320BC - Craftsmanship 24/40c. 19T to Classical Era. It turned out to be only 14 Turns.
Discipline and Urban Planning.
Warrior killed a Scout and we advanced the Slinger to take one for the team.

T44 2280BC - Slinger did 32 damage and the Warrior finished the job and sacked the camp, making the way safe for our trade caravan to Sparta.
It looks like Perry hired Mosh for Sparta, but does not appear to be playing a religious game. If he is, then we are likely to share a religion.
Utica built a monument and we decided we needed a Scout, because the continent is so big and we need to find things.

T45 2240BC - Bronze Working 48/80s. In the southern wilderness, we had a scout v scout battle.
It turns out there is iron to the west of Utica and this is fortunate.
T48 2120BC - Scout 2 in Utica. Perry is already building Hoplites.
T49 2080BC - Perry settled Rhodes. He has at least 3 cities.
T50 2040BC - Writing 30/50s. We invested 100g to secure our Campus location.

Spoiler :

T52 1960BC - Settler in Tyre. Contact with Nazca.
T54 1880BC - Builder in Utica. We found the continent of Africa and know the extents of our home continent.
T55 1840BC - We founded Ugarit and this got us an Inspiration for Early Empire. 65g gets us a Marsh Tile and Ugarit is 5f4h at the start and we have secured a source of Sugar.
Perry started building the Elemental Wonder.

T57 1760BC - We entered the Classical Era in a Dark Age with 9/11 Era Score.
Masonry. Early Empire. We will try to get better at obtaining the charity discounts as I get more familiar with the rules.

Spoiler :

We have some decisions to make:

Dedication - I lean towards Free Enquiry. It is fairly easy to obtain Eurekas and each one is worth an Era Score. I do not see the number of specialty districts we build exceeding the number of Eurekas.
Governor - I lean towards Mags again, especially when we are running against the housing limits and need to build Settlers.
Policy - We can run.....
Maritime Industries for 5 Turns - We will build up our Navy quickly.
Urban Planning - It is still worth 3h.

Dark Age cards are interesting, but we are 5 Turns from State Workforce and a bunch of turns from the next government.

We only need 11 Era score and I did not check how much we need for the Heroic Age Slingshot. We have only one neighbor and here is how we stack up:
3 Cities to at least 3 Cities. We exploring his territory, so he must not have Early Empire yet, which is very strange.
He is leading in Science with 8 Tech / 12 Science versus 8 Tech / 8.5 Science. Maybe we are keeping up because of charity.
In Culture we are dead last. We are lagging Perry 7.2 to 5.1.
Domination we are also lagging 161 to 65 and he is picking on us for a lack of standing army.
In Religion, we decided we are not fighting for that. It will take us too long to get a Great Profit and we see no profit in trying.

Here is our situation:

Spoiler :

Harv · Jan 23, 2023

Sesion He - Turn 74 1080BC - A New Government to Lead us out of the Dark

For the Dark Age Dedication, we chose Free Inquiry, because we thought that would be the easiest way to pull off a Heroic Age Slingshot. Speaking of slingshots, we are still fielding Slingers. More seriously, speaking of slingshots, we will try to get better at executing an Ancient to Classical Age Slingshot. If I understand the costs of tech correctly, the last tier has 3 technologies costing 80s each. Bronze Working is essential, because it shows us where to find Iron. That leaves Masonry and The Wheel. The Eureka reduces the cost from 80 to 64. The Classical Age discount saves us another 12.8s. So the cost should be 51.2. On the Civics side, we have 2 civics at 70 that must be completed before working on political philosophy.

I wish there was more transparency on tech and civic progress. Maybe there is a quality of life mod for this.

For Governor, we hired Mags and sent him to Utica. So far, we have had no yield from him. I will check my logs to see if we could have had some yield from Liang. I think it's one or two builders, plus work on some Districts. Then there's Piggy Bank, for when we choose our highest population city. Most of the other governors I have not yet learned how to use.

We started the Dark Classical Age with an Iron Mine and double Eureka towards Iron Working and the Wheel. Finally, we set up our government for Maritime Industries and Urban Planning.

T59 1680BC - Mysticism. 4T to Military Tradition. We are keeping the same policies. In this case, the timing is working out perfectly, because we are building 2 Biremes over 6 Turns. The Maritime Industries card is earning us 10.67 per turn for 6 turns, compared to 3h from Urban Planning.

T60 1640BC - Astrology 24/40s. Somebody already completed Stonehenge.
Bireme in Utica and we sent it sailing westwards and we discovered the Guapalagos Islands. When my knowledge of Spanish gets better, I will learn to execute puns. Ugarit is growing rapidly and we invested 70g to buy more marshland for them. Doesn't this sound like a classic real estate scam, swampland in Florida? Is this still going on today?
The boat also won us a single Envoy in Nazca.

Spoiler :

T61 1600BC - We built crab boats near Utica we are unlikely to use for a very long time and we also made contact with Indonesia. For some reason she does not like us. It might be because we are in a dark age, but we are not sure. We forgot to send a delegation and it was a while before we were in a position to.
T62 1560BC - We also made contact with Mansa Musa and managed to establish a delegation before he went unfriendly.
T63 1520BC - In honor of Mansa Musa, we should rename our Capital Spare Tyre. We completed a Campus there and won an Inspiration for State Workforce. Utica build a second Bireme and sent them on a long journey eastwards. This also got us the Eureka for Shipbuilding.
Military Tradition 24/40c - 2T to State Workforce
Discipline and Urban Planning - Hindsight says we might have done well with Agoge, but not as brilliantly as Maritime Industries.

T64 1480BC - Indonesia founded Hinduism. Fishing Boats for Spare Tyre. Eureka Celestial Navigation.
T65 1440BC - State Workforce and a long 20T to Political Philosophy
Discipline and Urban Planning
Mags gets Provision for when we finally start building Settlers.
T66 1400BC - Ugarit Monument

T67 1360BC - Celestial Navigation
Iron Working from a Tribal Village. How often does that happen?
T68 1320BC - Contact with Fez and Inspiration for Political Philosophy
We sent 1 Envoy for one of the shortest lived science boosts ever.

T69 1280BC - Builder in Utica. Maize Farm. Irrigation boost. Basically we spent about 19 or 20h to win 16s. Is it worth it? It is only worth it in the long term if we keep the farm and make a triangle. We invested another 75g to set up a Government Plaza in Spare Tyre. Most likely it is a poorly placed Government Plaza. For now, it benefits the Campus. A good alternative might have been Ugarit, because it is destined to grow huge.

T70 1240BC - We finally invent The Wheel.
T71 1200BC - Irrigation. I think this completes the Ancient Era for us.
A scout found 20 Iron in a Viallage. This got him L1 Ranger the next turn.
T73 1120BC - Library in Spare Tyre. Meanwhile our eastward boat has discovered Atlantis! We now have contact with Cahokia, but it appears Atlantis has another rival civilization.
Ugarit has a mine and this gave us a boost towards apprenticeship.

T74 1080BC - Fez is already defeated and we lost our envoy in a very short investment. It looks like the Mongols took them out and maybe we should circle our Scout back and meet them. We could also just keep walking. Cothon complete in Utica and we have secured our Heroic Age Slingshot.
Political Philosophy - 13T to Drama

I did not remember to take any pictures of our situation. We have 3 cities and I probably should have focused on building more Settlers instead of building upwards. However. We are Carthage and we get a bonus from building the Cothon in Utica. We also have Mags established there. We might even be able to build 1.5 Settlers in a single cycle. The government I am thinking of is:

Classical Republic. We get +1 Amenities and +1 Housing in Spare Tyre and Utica both. The buff to GPP also helps.
Urban Planning, Colonization
Charismatic Leader - I don't believe we will get an Envoy in the cycle otherwise.
Inspiration - Because the buff to GPP will help.

Zaarin · Jan 24, 2023

As a Semitic language nerd, I love that you're listing your sessions in abjad order.

I'm not much of an AAR reader, but I've enjoyed reading your Hammurabi and Dido games.

Harv · Jan 24, 2023

Zaarin said:
As a Semitic language nerd, I love that you're listing your sessions in abjad order. I'm not much of an AAR reader, but I've enjoyed reading your Hammurabi and Dido games.

Waw, thank you very much! I actually looked up a Phoenician abjad video! I think when I go from playthrough to playthrough, my gameplay will improve and I will see mistakes I have been making in earlier games. Maybe settling on luxury resources was not a good idea, because it looks like we can build industries on top of them, but this is my first game at Monopolies and Corporations. Maybe I look up how some of these city names were spelled, too!

Session Waw - Turn 105 275BC - Heroic Slingshot

T74 1080BC - We went with the Classical Republic, Urban Planning, Colonization, Charismatic Leader, and Inspiration.
T75 1040BC - Currency 72/120s. Ugarit Spearman. Contact with Colombia. Delegation sent. Bad first impression. I think they got friendly later.
T76 1000BC - Mansa is no longer mad at us. He sent a delegation. Our Bireme 2 discovered Ha Long Bay.
T77 975BC - Contact with Genghis Khan. He conquered Fez. We sent a delegation.
T78 950BC - On the other side of the world we discovered Yosimite. Yet another side, we have contact with China and we are going broke sending delegations.
T79 925BC - Mine in Spare Tyre. Contact with Vilnius. No free envoy. Most likely we are getting no free envoys, unless we are very clever with quests.
T80 900BC - Eureka Mathematics. Most likely it was the Government Plaza in Spare Tyre. We hired Governor Piggy and sent him to Spare Tyre to get us into the Culture game. Over in Mongolia, they are now following the God of Craftsmen. The Religion game is moving extremely slowly. We did not pursue religion, because we thought we would arrive too late and we did not have many sites producing faith.

T81 875BC - Utica Settler and we got a delegation from Khan.
T82 850BC - Contat with La Venta. China sent a delegation. Ugarit exceeded the happy cap and Spare Tyre exceeded housing. Our growth is already slowing.
T83 825BC - Shipbuilding.
We got our Spearman kill for the Eureka in Military Tactics.
T84 800BC - Spearman L1 Echelon. Hindsight says we should have taken the melee buff, but we were fighting Horsemen to get to the Camp and usually more are coming.
T85 775BC - Eureka Construction. Watermill Ugarit.
Warrior killed another Horseman.
We recruited Hypatia and claimed the Eureka for Education. Now we need another Campus to build that Library.
We opened trade with China, 20 Iron for 6gpt, then Amber for 19g+1gpt. We would do well to carefully manage our supply of Iron.

T86 750BC - Horsebak Riding. Founded Aynook. We spend 245g for a Builder.
T87 725BC - Drama and Poetry
Here is what happens when we build a city with no military units nearby. So we can't plant the tobacco yet and we have to do something else. Later we had to struggle for a bit. Meanwhile, our plan was to send Mags over there to grow it quickly.

Spoiler :

We went with Urban Planning, Colonization, Diplomatic League, and Inspiration. The Diplomatic League got us 2 Envoys in Cahokia.
China started a war with Colombia and later took a couple of their cities and got condemned a couple of times. Maybe it was that Iron we sent them. We figured it was safer than sending it to our next door neighbor.

T88 700BC - Utica Settler. Now we can send Mags to Aynook. We invested 90g in a horse pasture and got started in the horse business.
T90 650BC - Contact with Portugal. We promoted a L1 Ranger Scout.
T91 625BC - We sold them 20 Iron for 46g+7g/5. We paid them back 13g and suddenly their border was open!
T92 600BC - Construction. Inspiration for Games and Recreation.
Ancestral Hall in Spare Tyre. Granary in Utica. Trader in Ugarit.
To the northwest, we sacked that Barbarian camp. We had barbarian trouble further south, but figured if we did not finish this camp, then they will be coming back.
We changed our government back to Charismatic Leader, because we did not see any new Envoys any time soon. We were probably wrong.
Piggy got promoted to Connoisseur and that got us from 10.4 to 16.6 Culture. Most likely this is pathetically slow.
Portugal founded Buddhism. However, Indonesia is working hard to flood us with Hinduism. Suddenly, we are back to the good old days of Civ 4 Hinduism v Buddhism!

T93 575BC - Games and Recreation - 11T to Defensive Tactics. No change to government.
2x60g upgraded us 2 Archers. We are going to need them for the barbarian threat to our recently founded Aynook.
We founded Byblos.

Spoiler :

T94 550BC - We started a Tea Industry in Byblos. We also started a 3f2h trade route to get it growing faster. Hindsight says we really did not need it. We also learned that we can build Cothons on Lake Tiles. This is very good information to know
Mags collected his 88f chop for Aynook and went back to Utica.
Bireme 2 circumnavigated the Pacific Ocean and we have discovered two edges of the map and therefore proved that the Earth is Flat.
T95 525BC - Suddenly Aynook is Size 4!
We have contact with Scythia. There is one civilization remaining to meet and we have heard this is Persia.

Elsewhere, we discovered Lake Winnipegosis and I find this amusing. I might have driven by there once or maybe twice and it is a pretty nowhere place in real life. We also discovered Lake Superior. Later that turn, through contact with Scythia, we discovered the Dead Sea.

Spoiler :

T96 500BC - We put Fishing Boats on Great Slave Lake, but those will not be around for much longer, because we will take them down and feed our town and put up a Cothon there.
Monument Aynook. We planted our Tobacco, but then found the Barbarians are fielding Swords already and that Archer got butchered. We took some turns taking that Sword down, but he already did damage to our crop and it will be a while before we benefit.

T97 475BC - Mathematics.
We traded Tea and 23 Dip to China for the Ilyad and a song. Then Perry wanted to buy it for less than what we paid for it. We need the culture from whatever source we can get it from.
T98 450BC - Trader in Spare Tyre. We sent a trade route from Spare Tyre to Nyani for 14g1s. The Sword pillaged our Tobacco.

Spoiler :

T99 425BC - Heavy Chariot Ugarit. 2 Envoys in Samarkand. 480g for a Lighthouse in Utica.
We killed that Sword, but the damage is already done.
T100 400BC - Utica Settler. We will take a little break from Settler Spam while we build a Campus. Moving Mags to Spare Tyre is also an option, but we have Piggy there. We moved Mags to Byblos.

T102 350BC - Defense Tactics - We would do well to learn to slingshot better. The skill will help us, especially when behind.
We took Diplomatic League and put 2 Envoys in Vilos.
Byblos Monument. Piggy promoted to Researcher. That brought our Science from 26.2 to 32.

T103 325BC - Eureka Engineering. Aynook Ancient Walls. 20 Faith from a Village.
T104 300BC - Granary in Spare Tyre. Founded Sidon.

T105 275BC - We successfully executed our slingshot into a Heroic Age.

Spoiler :

Had we taken the time to found a religion, then we could be spreading it rapidly. This might still be an option, because we would be getting over 4 GPP per turn. We can play a card to get 2 more. We still don't have an source of infinite faith.

Monumentality means we can buy Builders for discounted gp. We also get builders with our new city from the Ancestral Hall. The Settlers can be built with Hammers, because we are +100% in Utica. If we can get a Cothon in Spare Tyre, we will be up to +150%. However, then, we will have to move Piggy.
Free Inquiry. We are building Cothons. We might also try to build Cothon Hub Triangles. Maybe we can get one in time to get some science bonuses.
Pen, Brush and Voice will get us a small culture bonus.

Here is our empire.

Spoiler :

For a sea-based empire, we don't seem very coastal.

Harv · Jan 25, 2023

Session Zen - Turn 133 420AD - Zen Republic

T105 275BC - We went with a single turn of Charismatic Leader and Caravans, because we must not have been building Settlers at the time.
We bought a couple of Builders for 205 and 215g.
T106 250BC - Engineering. Theology. 3 Turns to Military Training.
We went with Urban Planning and Caravans, Diplomatic League and Inspiration.
The first World Congress met and we correctly guessed at one of the agenda points. That puts us in the pack at 1/20 Diplomatic Victory.
We established a sugar industry in Sidon and bought another Sugar tile for 95g.
T107 225BC - Apprenticeship
With the help of Mags, we got 97 food for Biblos. Mine in Aynook and Plantation in Sidon.
Contact with Anshan - 2 Envoys
T108 200 BC - With the help of Mags, we chopped out 97 hammers and completed a Cothon in Great Slave Lake near Byblos. We could move our capital there and have all our Great Admirals ruling a single tile lake.
Ugarit Diplomatic Quarter. 2 Envoys in Lavent. Contact with Yenevan.
Pasture in Byblos. 240g for an Archer to deal with a Barbarian emergency. Eureka Machinery. Inspiration Mercenaries.

T109 175BC - Military Training
Urban Planning, Colonization, Charismatic Leader, Inspiration
Aynook Granary.
Mags back to Utica. 2 Envoys in Yerevan.
Trader in Spare Tyre. We opened a route to Jenne for 14g1s. Inspiration Medieval Faires.

Spoiler :

T110 150BC - Military Tactics. 240g for a Pikeman upgrade.
Hindsight says we should have been upgrading as many units as we could. We are also greedy capitalists and don't mind selling off our iron when it available.
T112 100BC - Campus Utica. Inspiration Recorded History. Hypatia built a Library.
Recruited Artemesia.
T113 75BC - Monument in Spare Tyre. Machinery. Recorded History. No change to government.
Scythia conquered a lost city. It looks like it was one of those independent city states conquered and rebelled and retaken.
155g for a Horse Pasture. Lumber Mill. Eureka Mass Production.
Hindsight also says we should have built our Tea Industry in Spare Tyre. Maybe we are still able to fix this. This is where all of our science is being developed.
We will get better at this. We also hired Liang to Ugarit to slow down our bleeding gold to builder builds.

T115 25BC - Water Mill in Sidon.
T117 25AD - Aynook Aqueduct. Inspiration Military Engineering.
Education. 105g for an Industrial Zone.
Chariot L1 Barding. Here is where I learn that they are actually pretty weak.
T118 50AD - Aqueduct Ugarit. 225g for another Builder.
Archer L1 Volley. They are also prone to getting slaughtered in the Middle Ages.
T119 75AD - Feudalism. Eureka Stirrups.
Aqueduct in Spare Tyre. Commercial District for Biblos. For some reason we spent 480g on a Market. Sawmill.
250g and 20 Iron for a Man at Arms to get us into the Middle Ages. Contact with Kabul.
T121 125AD - 110g for another investment in swamp real estate.
T122 150AD - Founded LPQY. 165g for more swampland.

Spoiler :

T123 175AD - Stirrup. Niter Mine. Eureka Rifling.
T124 200AD - Cothon in Spare Tyre. We might do well some time to move Mags over here. and find a different place for Piggy.
Finally sacked a Barbarian Outpost. 250g for another Crossbow.
T125 225AD - Trader in Byblos. Rice Farm.
Elsewhere, war is breaking out. Tomy and Simon dow'd on Khan.

T126 250AD - Civil Service.
We started a trade route from LPQY to Spare Tyre to have it grow faster.
T127 275AD - 320g for the Knight. 250g for the Crossbow. Eureka Metal Casting.
T128 300AD - Buttress. Utica Settler.
T129 325AD - Contact Walrin. Granary Byblos.
T130 350AD - Lpqy Monument. Niter Mine. We have lots of niter! 250g for another Crossbow.
Contact with Persia and we now have contact with all the AI.
T131 375AD - Euraka Military Science. Aynook Industrial Zone.
T132 400AD - Contact Akkad. Mtw founded.

T133 425AD - Ugarit Industrial Zone. Sidon Entertainment Complex. Cartography.
Inspiration Civil Engineering. Divine Right.

Our science moves along, but our Culture lags. This is most likely because we have not been building Theaters. Compared to the AI, we are moving along with the pack.
We might have placed our Government complex wrong, but we might be able to move Mags to Spare Tyre. Then we need a home for Piggy. We can look for what will be our biggest cities.

We are ready for a new government. We will gain 2 military slots and exchange an economic slot for a wildcard. The great person buff might not be a big deal to lose. We can use the wildcard for the republic legacy, if we are willing to lose urban planning or colonization.

Expansion - We need to claim one more tobacco for the industry, then start claiming the gems.

Harv · Jan 26, 2023

Session Het - Turn 169 1080AD

36 Turns in a Session and a very rushed writing style reflects on my enthusiasm for playing. We seem to have some momentum - or at least we are keeping up with people. I'm kind of excited at how I might try to finish this one.

T133 425AD - Monarchy established. Limes, Veterancy, Urban Planning, Charismatic Leader, Colonization, Republican Legacy
We might have finally made our first vassal.
We invested 120g for an iron mine.

T134 450AD - Byblos Ancient Walls. Builder from a Village.
We invested 180g for more swamp land. Most people lose a lot of money investing in swampland. Moose pasture is even better. They call it a gold mine, but it is really a hole in the ground with a liar on top of it.

T135 475AD - Castles - Medieval tech complete.
Contact with Mexico City. We sacked a barbarian camp. Ugarit Ancient Walls.
We invested another 180g in horse pasture. What were we saying before about moose pasture?

T136 500AD - Mercenaries - 4 Turns to Medieval Fair. Spare Tyre Walls.
Veterancy, Professional Army, Urban Planning. Diplomatic League, Colonization, Republican Legacy.
Mexico City 2 Envoys.
There was a war between Persia and Indonesia, but these wars tend to not last too long.

T137 520AD 180g Caravel. Skirmisher from Village.
T138 540AD 180g Caravel. Inspiration Exploration.
Utica Settler. 120g Encampment Site. We might have chosen the wrong city for an Encampment, but we need one.
Mags to Byblos.
RIP Scout for running into a bunch of Barbs on the way to the North Pole.
T136 560AD Trade route from MTW to Spare Tyre worth 3h3f.

T140 Mass Production. Medieval Faires. 7T to Guilds.
20 Dip from Village. Aynook Workshop.
Professional Army, Veterancy, Urban Planning, Charismatic Leader, Serfdom, Republican Legacy.
270g for a Builder
T141 600AD Recruited Leif Erikson. Inspiration Enlightment. 75g from Village. Sawmill.
Special Congress requests aid for China. For some reason the AI does not compete for this, so it is very easy diplomatic points - at least until we are spewing pollution.

Spoiler :

Meanwhile, we have had our own issues to deal with.

Spoiler :

T142 620 - 185g for Tea in Spare Tyre. This is when we found out we only seem to be able to build an industry once. We have to look up further how it works, but I was not able to move it. The Tea Industry would have been better in Spare Tyre. Maybe we will have better luck growing the other city, but Spare Tyre has the +4 Campus.
We retired Leif Erikson for the visibility buff and invested 285g for another builder.
T143 640 - We recruited Isaac Newton!
Cothon in MTW. 120g for a forest tile, converted to 129h for Byblos, which built a theater.

Spoiler :

T144 660 - Utica Encampment. Lighthouse LPQY. 145 Faith for a builder. We are winding down our Heroic Age.
Isaac Newton built his University of Spare Tyre. Eureka Astronomy.
Tyre to Niani trade route for 1h17g1s1c.
Piggy is moving to Utica while we move Mags to Sidon. Liang got promoted for Zoning. I'm not sure this is a strong promotion. I might try to keep better track of how many hammers these governors collect.

T145 680 Renaissance Era - Normal - we went with Reform the Coinage. We figured we will be completing a lot of trade routes and it is the easiest way to slingshot back into a golden age.
T146 700 - Ugarit Workshop. Eureka Industrialization. Contact Hattusa.
T147 720 - Guilds. Eureka Banking. 5T to Exploration.
Craftsmen, Veterancy, Urban Planning, Diplomatic League, Serfdom, Republican Legacy.
Piggy is promoted to Grants.

T148 740 - Founded Nora. Sidon Theator. Amphithater Byblos. Aynook Trebuchet.
Utica to La Venta trade route. 12g and an emissary
Hattusa gets 2 envoys.
T149 760 - 2x129h for Spare Tyre. Mausoleum completed where our commercial hub should have been. Barracks in Utica.
Inspiration for Naval Tradition from a village.

Spoiler :

T150 780 - 120g for Tobacco Tile. Lighthouse in Spare Tyre.
T151 800 - Astronomy. Inspiration for Colonialism. Exploration.
Merchant Republic. Craftsmen, Urban Planning, Trade Confederation, Merchant League, Charismatic Leader, Republican Legacy.
We made friends with Perry next door and started a cultural alliance. We will be sending a bunch of trade routes his way.
Inspiration Diplomatic Service.
Ugarit Consulate. MTW Lighthouse. Tobacco Plantation.
We retired Artemisia for some exp for a caravel. Mags moved to LPQY.

T152 820 - Banking. 780g for Armory in Utica. Eureka Gunpowder.
T153 840 - Caravel L2 Reinforced Hull. Byblos Trader. Aynook Tobacco Industry.
Byblos to Rhodes 1h4g2s4c. It's not much yet.
T154 860 - Eureka Siege Tactics. Gunpowder.
Aynook Treb, Ugarit Trader. Trade route to Corinth. Sidon Commy Hub.
T155 880 - Diplomatic Service. Ugarit Granary.
We introduced Wisselbanken into our policies.
139h to LPQY. Shipyard.
Recruited Chola for easy +3 strength to naval units.

T157 920 - Metal Casting. MTW built.... lighthouse?
T158 940 - 2 Bombard for 170g and 20 Niter each. Aynok Cothon. Trader in Byblos.
T159 960 - Major Flood. Picture way above.
Nora to Athens route. 3f4h14g2s4c. It's a nice start for a new city. Liang moved to MTW.
T160 980 - 170g 20 Niter for Musket. Nora Monument. 130g for a Campus. 260g for a Granary. In terms of fresh water, it is a horrible site. Maybe we had the foresight to build 2 tiles from a mountain. We were more interested in resources and a decent campus site.
We made friend with Indonesia, but did not try to secure an alliance.

T161 1000AD - 142h to Aynook. Lighthouse on a lake tile. Sidon Market.
Spare Tyre to Kabul 1h7g1s1c. It's not much, but worth an emissary.
T162 1010 - Eureka Printing. Siege Tactics. Utica University. Aynook Encampment.
T163 1020 - Sidon 260g for Granary. Mags 5T to Byblos.
T164 1030 - Humanism.
Craftsmen, Urban Planning, Trade Confederation, Machiavellinism, Wisselbank, Invention
Another special World Congress Session - This time Joao needs aid. It gets us back into the diplomatic game.

T165 1040 - Eureka Steam Power. Printing.
100g to China. Recrouted Zhou. Inspiration Mercantilism.
Shipyard Spare Tyre. Ugarit repaird. LPGY Commy District.
World Congress..... Great Admiral points are banned and we are at 3/20 towards Diplomatic Victory. Indonesia is running the show at 7.

T166 1050 - Aynook Stable.
LPQY to Athens 3f4h14g2s3c
Sacked a Barbarian Camp
T168 1070 - Enlightment - 1T to Naval Tradition. Eureka Scientific Theory.
Trader Aynook to Athens.
100g to Joao. We should be back in the diplomacy game soon.
We had to turn in Urban Planning and traded it for Gothic Architecture.
151h to Byblos and built a Bank.

T169 1080AD - Naval Tradition. 4T to Mercantilism.
Sidon Ampitheater

Bibor · Jan 27, 2023

If I may comment on your endavors...

I'm heavily in favor of optimization. If you make an investment, it has to return as soon as possible. When I play, this reflects in expansion logic, city sizes, districts.

I always ask myself: what's the best thing I can do to improve the productivity of this, one, citizen? My soft cap is: if the tile (citizen or district) yields less than 4 of anything (food, science, production etc.) I consider it waste.

For example, Byblos in your latest screenshot has a population of 6, good worked tiles are 4. Purchasing a worker, and either the horse or niter tile, would grant that city not only 4 more yields immediately (and thus speeding up the trader), but also grant further yields from selling those horses or niter to the AI.

Placing districts early, but not actually building them, and rather focusing on optimizing existing resources (i.e. population) is a good way to get the best of both worlds: cheap districts, and better yields.

For example, lets imagine you want to create a new town. That's an investment! First the settler itself costs production. Then, once settled, you have to get as many worker charges as you plan on having citizens (sometimes more), and have some cash ready to buy the best tiles. We are looking easily at a 1000 :c5gold:

investment, all taken into consideration. How long will it take that city to pay off itself? Perhaps 50 turns, perhaps not until the end of the game.

Harv · Jan 28, 2023

Bibor said:
If I may comment on your endavors...

I'm heavily in favor of optimization. If you make an investment, it has to return as soon as possible. When I play, this reflects in expansion logic, city sizes, districts.

I always ask myself: what's the best thing I can do to improve the productivity of this, one, citizen? My soft cap is: if the tile (citizen or district) yields less than 4 of anything (food, science, production etc.) I consider it waste.

For example, Byblos in your latest screenshot has a population of 6, good worked tiles are 4. Purchasing a worker, and either the horse or niter tile, would grant that city not only 4 more yields immediately (and thus speeding up the trader), but also grant further yields from selling those horses or niter to the AI.

Placing districts early, but not actually building them, and rather focusing on optimizing existing resources (i.e. population) is a good way to get the best of both worlds: cheap districts, and better yields.

For example, lets imagine you want to create a new town. That's an investment! First the settler itself costs production. Then, once settled, you have to get as many worker charges as you plan on having citizens (sometimes more), and have some cash ready to buy the best tiles. We are looking easily at a 1000 investment, all taken into consideration. How long will it take that city to pay off itself? Perhaps 50 turns, perhaps not until the end of the game.

I agree with you on optimization - and also think of what you said about investments. At the bottom line, you mentioned 50 turn payoff as a hypothetical. This is a 2% yield. Based on that, you double in about 35 turns. I have not tracked closely yet. Double probably happens much faster than that.

Food and Production, I consider to be almost equivalent, because in early game you can often move from 1 food to 1 hammer.
Culture is slightly more than Science, but almost equivalent. The thought I had is the civics are often less expensive than tech.

A hammer I consider to be 3 to 4 gold, because very often the gold surplus buys hammers at 4gp.
I mess up these economic calculations because there is more going on than I can track, and not enough has been automated. In my days of posting on Civ4, they were blunt about it.

In this game, I was posting a day behind and had about 30 turns to post up on Friday, but ended up playing. It ended up being a race between a Culture Victory and a Science Victory and it was very close, until our rockers got old and died. So the final result was a Turn 319 Science Victory for 1658 points. Score wise, it was the second best result, with the best result being the very first game I played and won.

Spoiler :

I will take a look at a timeline and put up another game. Given traffic, there is not much point in putting up a new thread every time. So I will update the thread title and put up a link. I'm sorry about cutting this adventure short in the middle, just when it was getting interesting. I got excited about the ending and stopped writing stuff down about 60 turns before the finish.

Harv · Jan 28, 2023

Game 6 - Cyrus of Persia

I will try to go in some kind of historical order. Before, I was trying to go in an order indicated by a History of the World game and we would be choosing between Greeks, Scythians, and Persians. I looked up some of these leaders and decided Cyrus of Persia should be next. Here is the game and settings:

Spoiler :

I kept difficulty the same. I like a couple of games to gain confidence with winning the level. Standard map speed has been working well.
For the map this time, we will do Seven Seas. I do not know if it is an advantage to Cyrus, but most likely does not matter. It is probably a slight advantage, because we are mostly land based empire. Huge map, because we have not completed a game on a huge map.

We kept the Monopolies and Corporations. We learned how to set up industries in the last game, but not much more than that. We will add Secret Societies. I know nothing about this mod.

It looks like Cyrus likes his surprise wars and we would do well to keep this in mind. On top, it looks like a surprise war only as a formal war, so we should have lesser warmongering penalties. In our last game, we had only a single war. It also looks like there is a bonus for internal trade routes, which we usually like very much.

The unique unit is a swordsman converted to range? Or is it a stronger version of an Archer? There is also a builder improvement available. A look gives me the impression that culture will be strong in this game. Here is what the start looks like.

Spoiler :

Citrus and Amber. Looking at yields, we have a 4 to our northwest, if we settle in place. I do not see any Plains Hills. However, we can get a city tile with 4 yield by settling on the Citrus. As a bonus, we will game access to the amenity.

Harv · Jan 28, 2023

Cyrus of Persia Part 1 - Turn 15 3440BC - A Code of Laws for a Land of Chaos

EDIT: Everything will go under a spoiler

Spoiler :

Harv · Jan 29, 2023

EDIT: Everything will go under a spoiler

Spoiler :

Harv · Jan 29, 2023

EDIT: Everything will go under a spoiler

Spoiler :

Bibor · Jan 29, 2023

Harv said:
Food and Production, I consider to be almost equivalent, because in early game you can often move from 1 food to 1 hammer.
Culture is slightly more than Science, but almost equivalent. The thought I had is the civics are often less expensive than tech.

A hammer I consider to be 3 to 4 gold, because very often the gold surplus buys hammers at 4gp.

For the me the calculation of food vs. hammers changes at population 7, but yes, it's roughly equivalent.

Regarding science and culture values, I used to value them over food and production, but novadays I treat them equally. Because, realistically, production is science and culture, if you take eurekas and inspirations into account. Considering there is really no downtime for production (or rarely), and that most eurekas/insiprations are reasonable in their demands (i.e. there is a high chance that you need those builds anyway), until after flight I actually prefer production.

The hammer to gold ratio you mention (4 gold to 1 hammer) is what I used to think, but not anymore. The higher the production difference between my cities, the more I value gold, often this value reaching the game's own proposed 2 gold to 1 hammer ratio. Timely policy card swaps and Eurekas/Inspirations can be worth a lot of science and culture. There are some really hefty tech discounts to be gained, and realistically only possible with gold purchases.

Harv · Jan 29, 2023

Bibor said:
For the me the calculation of food vs. hammers changes at population 7, but yes, it's roughly equivalent.

Regarding science and culture values, I used to value them over food and production, but novadays I treat them equally. Because, realistically, production is science and culture, if you take eurekas and inspirations into account. Considering there is really no downtime for production (or rarely), and that most eurekas/insiprations are reasonable in their demands (i.e. there is a high chance that you need those builds anyway), until after flight I actually prefer production.

The hammer to gold ratio you mention (4 gold to 1 hammer) is what I used to think, but not anymore. The higher the production difference between my cities, the more I value gold, often this value reaching the game's own proposed 2 gold to 1 hammer ratio. Timely policy card swaps and Eurekas/Inspirations can be worth a lot of science and culture. There are some really hefty tech discounts to be gained, and realistically only possible with gold purchases.

EDIT: Everything will go under a spoiler

Spoiler :

Harv · Jan 29, 2023

EDIT: Everything will go under a spoiler

Spoiler :

Harv · Jan 29, 2023

EDIT: Everything will go under a spoiler

Spoiler :

Harv's Civ6 Tour of Historical Learders - Current Game 7 - Pointy Hat Scythian Horse Lords

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Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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Doomsday Machine

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