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Harvshepsut of Egypt (NOT Earth 18)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Harv, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Okay, after that slug fest on Earth 18, I decided to start another game with Harvshepsut. Settings:

    Continents (It will probably look like World of Warcraft.)
    Monarch Difficulty
    (Emperor on Earth 18, subtract 1 for not really being Emperor, subtract another 1 for an easy empire, and promote 1 for the victory)
    Huts are ON.
    Events are ON.
    Normal size, 6 opponents.
    Normal speed.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-2-20_21-5-23.png

    upload_2020-2-20_21-5-35.png



    I understand games without huts or events are more popular. It might be because something random occurs that completely changes the balance. One example would be 4 Barbarian Archers suddenly showing up on Turn 20.

    It is slightly less of a danger this time, because the turns are faster.

    Here is the start.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-2-20_21-6-36.png



    .....and so far, I have not done a thing! I will post up my thoughts in the next post. Or I might think about it overnight and post thoughts tomorrow.

    I posted two saves. One is a 4000 BC save. The other is a save a 4000 BC that hopefully does not clear all the auto-saves.
     

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  2. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    So far, I think the start says Fishing first, then Animal Husbandry. I can build a Warrior first, then a Fishing Boat on the Fish. Fishing will come on Turn 6 and the Warrior a little later. I can grow the city to 2, work the Fish and the Plains / Hills / Forest to finish the Work Boat. I get.....

    Turn 0 - Settle in Place, Start Warrior, Research Fishing, 2f, 2h, 9c
    Turn 6 - Fishing (59/59 Beakers) - Research Animal Husbandry, start Work Boat, 12/22, 12/15, 0/30
    (2 Turns of 3f, 1h, 11c and 2 Turns of 2f, 2h, 9c - These are very expensive hammers.)
    Turn 10 - Size 2 - 0/24, 12/15, 6/30 + 1f, 4h, 11c
    Turn 16 - Work Boat complete - 6/24, 12/15
    (Rushing the Work boat could get me the Fish on Turn 14 and I would be at Size 2 - 0/24, 14/15, so this way seems a little over a turn ahead in food and commerce.)

    Starting a Worker and researching Animal Husbandry would get me a Worker on Turn 15 and I would have the Pigs on Turn 20.

    I might even build a second Work Boat before Worker. I think that would depend on what Animal Husbandry brings. After that, I should go Mining - Bronze Working. There is lots of food, so Slavery will be very strong - and there is a whole bunch of Forest. At this point, either we have Horses or Copper - Or we do not.

    I assumed I am settling in place. The only reason I can think of not to settle in place is a bare Plains Hills at (3,1). There might be Copper.
    Are those Green Hills also bare?
    What is to the south of them at (1,-2)?

    The plus side is I haven't done anything yet! See you tomorrow!
     
  3. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Huts are a bad idea for shadow games imo, we can discuss which techs or builds are best and then you plop one of them in huts ;)
    If you pick fishing first (not wrong without hills to mine and worker being stuck on roads after pasture), you should def. go BW afterwards with so many forests (and delay AH, mining pigs for now).
     
  4. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I got all pig iron.

    So skip Animal Husbandry for now and save about 11 turns getting to Bronze. AH probably after Bronze.

    I can understand about the huts. We just discussed delaying AH, but there is a 1 in 60 probability that we pop in in that hut.

    EDIT: Oops! Actually, there is no chance of popping a technology by settling the city on place. I understand that is because I don’t have a city founded and there are no available techs on the top of my screen. I would have to pop the hut with the settler to have a chance of getting technology.

    So the possibilities are gold, lots of gold, free Warrior, free scout, or nothing.

    I get....
    40% - Gold
    10% - Lots of Gold
    20% - Map
    20% - Warrior
    10% - Scout
    .....less a 1 in 1024 probability of getting nothing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  5. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I also should have posted my Demographics screen. I understand there is some useful information to be gleaned from there.

    Somebody starts with 18k soldiers. I think that is whatever civilization starts with Mining and The Wheel. The lowest is 11k and I think they start with a combination of Fishing, Agriculture, and Mysticism. I don’t know if the average is rounded or truncated.

    Turn 1 might reveal something about how who has a coastal start and if they have Fishing and a resource. Turn 5 might reveal who is creative.
     
  6. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Why Eygpt again? Your delaying AH with your UU here? You can mine the pigs.

    I agree on huts. I doubt you need that advantage unless you plan to spam buildings again.
     
  7. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Egypt again - Same civilization, real map. I think on the Earth map, they have unfair advantages.

    Delay AH or not - I'm trying to count turns until I have my first Worker. I will most likely need Bronze Working 5 Turns after building my first Worker.

    Building spam - most likely means I lost focus or hit a wall. The first wall was when I thought my economy was crashed after taking out Greece. It was similar after Russia. I did note your comment about a library being pointless if I’m not going to run scientists. I get 2 beakers based on 16 commerce and 50% science rate, or a 45 turn payoff, which seems quite long. A similar argument applies for an aqueduct and market to go up two city sizes and work two more plains farms and collect two more hammers and commerce.

    I still think it’s Fishing first, then Work Boat.

    I also have to see what the rest of my city tiles look like. Bronze Working and Animal Husbandry will tell me if I get units or not.

    Added: I forgot to ask- Are you a mathematician, economist, or historian? I’m curious what drew you to Civ.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  8. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Libraries can be useful early builds. I am a warmonger by heart. Just a great series of games. Maybe the maths too.

    There is nothing wrong with crashing your economy. Especially when you have cottages, alphabet and currency. As the cottages grow your economy quickly recovers. Research and wealth work great at this stage. As long as you are working cottages.Same for specialist such as scientists.

    I agree with Mylene here. Fishing/BW are great early techs as you can whip/chop workboats. I guess workboat first as you have fish!

    Building spam. There are some buildings I rarely build. These include aqueducts, colloseums, markets, temples. Purely because once you have granary and library you normally have most key early buildings. Barracks if your going to war are useful. Forges too can be useful long term. Market in bigger cities if your struggling with happiness. Court houses only when costs are above 8-9 in a city. Overall most buildings struggle to repay back the hammers invested. 1-2 war chariots add more value as you might capture an AI city sooner. Wealth/research give much better returns as they speed up your science. Another reason why crashing your economy matters less when you have key techs.

    My biggest issue with these earth maps is the AI lack archery. It's so much easier to take down AI early on. 5-6HA can wipe out 1 AI early on. Even a few warriors might take down an AI. Pends on how close the AI is.

    I think the AI all start on Noble techs here. So playing Monarch is an overkill here. Play it on immortal. It will be no more difficult than last game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  9. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I should have a short turn set in about two hours, probably to where I have the Work Boat complete, Turn 14 or 15, unless something changes earlier. I might play to Turn 16 for the autosave, which is a pretty silly reason.

    Given your location, you will probably be asleep.
     
  10. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Part 1 - In the Beginning...
    to Turn 4 / 3840 BC

    This is a short turn-set, indeed!

    Spoiler :

    The first thing I did was settle Thebes in place.
    upload_2020-2-21_17-17-13.png

    The hut gave us 24 gp. I do not believe this is game-changing. I suppose the early part of the game, it might put us ahead in research by a turn or so.

    It turns out we have Marble in our BFC and access to Stone later on. The grass tile at (-2,-2) might contain something. There might also be something on that plains hill at (3,1). I also see what appears to be Tundra to the south, so we are likely at the southern end of a large continent. This further determines the direction we move our Warrior.

    Our Warrior moved from (1,2) to (2,3), (3,2), (4,1), (5,0), just in time for our next big surprise.

    upload_2020-2-21_17-22-25.png

    We have met our first neighbor - and they are every bit as peaceful as we!

    We also got our border pop to reveal most of our southwest corner of the continent.

    upload_2020-2-21_17-23-49.png


    That brings us to Turn 4 and we have met our first neighbor!

    Before I forget, here are the Demographics for further analysis.

    Spoiler :

    There was no change in the number of soldiers from Turn 0 to Turn 1, so here is a picture of the Demographics at Turn 1, just after everybody has settled their cities.
    upload_2020-2-21_17-26-35.png

    18000 soldiers - I believe that is Mansa the Muse.
    11000 soldiers - There are six possibilities here. The USA is one of them.
    19 GNP - I think 20 GNP means somebody has a start with 11 Commerce. I don't know what 16 or 17 GNP mean.
    2 Production - Four of us started with 2 Production, three started with 1.
    4 Crop Yield - Everybody started with either 4 or 5 Food.
    7 Land Area - We have a coastal start with 2 Coast tiles. At least one player has a landlocked start.
    83% Approval - We are all the same. I believe this means we have no Charismatic Leaders.
    90 Life Expectancy - I don't know if any useful information can be proved.

    Here are the Demographics at Turn 3:
    upload_2020-2-21_17-36-22.png

    We have in this game:
    Mansa Musa of the Malinese Empire

    We have met:
    Shaka of the Zulu Empire

    We have one or two of the following:
    Roosevelt of the USA
    Sitting Bull of the Sioux
    Willem of the Dutch Empire
    Huyana Capac of the Incan Empire
    Isabella la Catolica

    We do not have:
    Carthage
    Celtic Empire

    There is one other Creative Empire. I believe they started landlocked or next to a lake.

     

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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  11. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Part 2 - Meet the Zulus
    to Turn 16 / 3360 BC

    A little silly mistake was in moving the Warrior on Turn 4, forgetting when their border pop was - and it pushed us back to where we were before - so we were one turn behind. We followed the forest northward and saw what appeared to be desert, but might be the northern coastline. It turned out to be a desert and there was a Lion waiting for us. We survived the battle. We still have a slight advantage over wild animals. We scouted the northern edge of Zulu territory. Hindsight says we should have explored the southern edge, because that was where we were.

    Research as follows:
    Turn 6 - Fishing (59)
    Turn 13 - Mining (74)
    Currently working towards Bronze Working (179)

    Turn 9 - Somebody founded Buddhism. Given the timing, it was probably done by research rather than a hut. Possibilities:
    I think the possibilities are Spain, Aztecs, India, Arabia, and maybe Byzantium. The others tend to be SBNR.

    Turn 15 - We finished the Work Boat and started working the Fish. We started on the Worker. I believe this means by the time we finish, we will lose some production invested into the Warrior. However, we will also be mining the Pigs two turns earlier. We gain four hammers from that. I do not know how many hammers we will lose from the Warrior production. There are two ways to find out and I am going with the hard way.

    Spoiler :

    Here was that Lion - I suppose the information gained by exploring is worth much more than 15 hammers for a Warrior. I was trying to use the cover of the forest as much as possible.

    upload_2020-2-21_19-29-43.png

    I'm also staring at this:

    upload_2020-2-21_19-32-1.png

    It's tempting. It's a free Worker and will take a few turns to get home. It would really slow the Zulus down. I would get to see their Capital and maybe explore the rest of their territory and see what other resources they have.

    However, I still have no idea if we have Copper or Horse and we need those to defeat Shaka.

    I lean towards letting that Worker finish that Pasture.


    I really should have saved at Turn 15 for a better decision, but it will still work out.
     

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  12. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Oh this is not a scenario map. So Ai on Monarch would start with an archer and maybe scout/warrior. I still think you are a better player than monarch level.

    With Shaka if you don't get him to friendly he will likely declare. He can plot at pleased. However if you take him out you will have 1c trade routes unless another nearby AI?. If you worker steal he will spam units. If he gets copper his impi will be really annoying. With Monarch any unit spam will be much slower.

    Free worker steal is always nice.
     
  13. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Session 3 - The Last Person we want to be Stranded on an Island With
    to Turn 36 / 2560 BC

    We opted to leave the Zulu Worker alone, heal up, and keep exploring northward to see what else there is on our continent.

    Turn 21 - 3160 BC - Somebody founded Hinduism.

    Turn 24 - 3040 BC - We built our Worker in Thebes. The Warrior went from 12/15 hammers to 6/15. We recover 4 hammers for getting the mine up two turns earlier. So we got a net loss of 2 hammers from that experiment and I will keep in mind 10 turns to put a build on hold.

    Turn 26 - 2960 BC - We discovered Bronze Working.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-2-22_13-11-59.png

    There is copper, but it is not that close to us. We can get a city there if we hurry. It is also close to Zulu territory. It is kind of one of those mortal competitions where they are fighting over who gets to use the axe.

    Also, they really don't like us.
    upload_2020-2-22_13-13-58.png

    Turn 27 - 2920 BC - We built Warrior 2 - His job will be to explore the southern part of Zulu territory and find out if they have another source of Copper.

    They also built their second city to the southeast of their capital.

    We kept on building around our capital.

    Turn 36 - 2560 BC - We discovered Animal Husbandry.

    upload_2020-2-22_13-15-28.png

    Spoiler :


    So there is our situation. We appear to be on an island with Shaka Zulu. There is copper between us. It looks like I can put a city near it with a distance of about 5. They can place a city with a distance of 3, so it is a bit closer to them than to us. I believe they do not know Bronze Working right now, because they have not adopted Slavery.

    We also have horse and I believe this determines what we should do next. We can found a city at (4,1) right next to the horses, while still sharing the Clams at (0,2). I would need about 16 worker turns to build a road up to the horse pasture and start building War Chariots, 19 turns if I include a forest chop. That takes us to Turn 55, which seems pretty late for a War Chariot rush, but the opportunity should be open if we can keep Shaka away from that Copper, which he will have anyway at Turn 50. (actually not quite)

    This might build a case for founding a city at (4,3) right next to the copper and work a campaign of denying resources to the Zulu while plotting their destruction.

    We also have to explore that desert tile at (0,5) because it might be hiding more fish.

    Decisions:
    Research Pottery next - because it works well with Slavery
    Spend 6 turns building up some Warriors while the city grows to almost Size 6, then start a Granary.
    Whip Granary in 7 turns.
    Slow-build a Settler from Turn 7. I think it will take 8 turns from there.
    So 15 turns, on Turn 15, we have a Settler. We might get it a bit faster (2 turns) with a chop.

    One big question is - Settle next to the Copper first or the Horse?
     

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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  14. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Session 4 - The Land of Beautiful Horses and Fast Women
    to Turn 52 / 1920 BC

    It was a slight change in plan. I wanted access to those Horses as fast as possible. The short story is I saved the Granary to later. Hopefully, it comes in handy. The other really big decision was exactly where to settle Memphis.

    Turn 39 / 2440 BC - Amazingly enough, there was still a hut on the continent just south of Zulu territory that they did not pop. Of course, I decided to go for it. We got a map.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-2-22_17-51-54.png

    In other news, it looks like Shaka also has Bronze Working and access to copper.

    Turn 41 - 2360 BC - We have discovered Pottery. I was trying to figure out the next research path and went with Writing, but really should have researched Masonry next, then Sailing, then Writing. I wanted the option open to whip the Great Lighthouse. Masonry also opens up that Marble as an option, for what looks like a 1f / 3h / 2c tile, or 1c better than my green hills. Also, since we are playing with random events on, Writing opens up some of the disasters, one of them being Slave Revolt.

    Speaking of bad random events, I have seen no evidence of the Vedic Aryans and we are almost in the clear at that front.

    Also, our fourth Warrior is ready to go check out that desert tile we were talking about, just to make sure our chosen city site will not orphan a fish tile. It turns out there was nothing there.

    Turn 46 - 2160 BC - Somebody founded Judaism. I think on the other continent we have a religious nut who decided to research all the religious techs. I have Isabella in mind. I also believe we have the tech trader Mansa Musa over there. We also have one Creative.

    Turn 47 - 2120 BC - We have finally built our first Settler. It appears we are one step behind Shaka in expansion. That worker steal back on Turn 16 is looking much better, because it would have slowed him down. I was otherwise going to have to think of how to deal with 30 turns worth of unit spam - or settle a peace.

    Turn 48 - 2080 BC - We founded Memphis at (1,3). I finally decided on this spot, because the green tile at (-1,3) can share all three seafood resources, it has 4 ocean tiles, which I did not think were worth the trouble. The site I chose also gets us access to those horses one turn sooner.

    With some quick micromanagement, we switched to Slavery and whipped the Granary in Thebes and had Memphis work the clams. The Worker started on the Horse Pasture.

    Turn 49 - 2040 BC - We have discovered Writing. We moved on to Masonry.

    Turn 51 - 1960 BC - There are three civilizations ahead of us in culture! It is probably those holy cities.
    1. The other Creative civilization founded a second city before we did and accumulated more culture.
    2. The religious nut who founded Buddhism has a holy city and an advantage in culture.
    3. Whoever founded Hinduism also has a holy city and an advantage in culture.
    4. We are in fourth place.
    5. Shaka is in fifth place.
    6. Two more civilizations are tied with Shaka for last place. It is unlikely they have the Holy City for Judaism.


    This brings us to Turn 52 - 1920 BC. We have a second Worker ready. He will go to that Plains Hill at (1,-1) and build a mine. Then he will go to (1,-2) and build the marble quarry, because that is still a good tile. I think that's 14 turns and we only chopped one forest. The other Worker will have the Horses all hooked up this turn and we can start on War Chariots if we want to. I think we need another Worker and a bunch of Turns to kill, because there is some whip unhappiness.

    Access to War Chariots is just in time, because the Barbarians are starting to show up with Archers.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-2-22_18-21-11.png



    I think the fortified Warrior 1 has a slight advantage (EDIT: I get 61.65% probability of winning, based on the assumption he heals up to 92 hp before getting attacked.) in defending on a Jungle Hill with Woodsman 1 and 82 hp. It might simply be safer to run back to civilization and let a War Chariot take care of it.

    What should my next build be in Thebes?
    I think Worker, then War Chariot, then whip Barracks, then more War Chariots.

    In Memphis, I started on a Granary, but do not believe we can hit Size 4 for a 2-pop whip. The food surplus is stuck at 4 and production at Size 3 with the horses and the pig iron will be 7. I count 2 more turns at Size 1 and 1 hammer, 6 turns at Size 2 and 4 hammers, and 6 turns at Size 3 and 7 hammers. That implies I can fit in two War Chariots - or we can build the Granary and whip Barracks.

    Good things tend to happen when we build lots of War Chariots. Memphis can have its first War Chariot in 9 Turns. Thebes will likely have one much sooner than that.

    Ideas?
     

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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  15. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I think your first settler here was 300+ years too late. I consider 2400bc late. Hence why your expansion is so slow at 1920bc. You could of whipped settler at size 4 after 40 hammers. I normally aim for 3 cities by 2000bc.

    At this stage I would be taking out shaka. I would be chopping ahead of building mines. The third workboat could of waited till settler was out.

    I would not worry too much about barbs here. With war chariots you are fine.
     
  16. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Okay, one Granary + 1 Work Boat = 1 Settler and we have 3 Cities instead of 2. Well, it looks like this difference has to be made up with War Chariots and Zulu cities on the opposite side of the continent.

    Session 5 - The Better Part of Valor
    to Turn 65 / 1400 BC

    "Better part of valor! Better part of Valor"
    -Khalid from Baldur's Gate, when morale fails

    That Warrior was making a stand on a well defended hill and decided to run. I would name him Sir Robin, but he has a few Beasts to his name and had a pretty even fight with a Lion and got to explore the entire northern part of the island.

    Turn 52 - 1920 BC - From counting the squares, I need that first War Chariot in 5 Turns, so have to move production immediately to War Chariot and adjust my tiles so that we do not grow into unhappiness. The Worker in the north finished off the road and gave us access to horses.
    Turn 54 - 1840 BC - We have discovered Masonry. This is in time to start working on that marble quarry. It's a good tile, and has one commerce more than the green hill mine.
    Turn 55 - 1800 BC - We have built our first War Chariot! Elsewhere in the world, somebody built Stonehenge.
    Turn 58 - 1680 BC - We built Barracks in Thebes.
    Turn 59 - 1640 BC - War Chariot 2 is ready in Thebes.

    Meanwhile War Chariot 1 has to gain the first level of experience the other way.
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-2-23_9-12-29.png

    I might have waited a couple of turns for my other War Chariot to catch up and provide back-up, just in case that "1" shows up like in those D&D memes. We killed that Archer and collected our 2XP and promoted to Combat 1.

    Turn 60 - 1600 BC - Sailing
    Turn 61 - 1560 BC - War Chariot 3 is ready in Thebes
    Turn 62 - 1520 BC - War Chariot 4 is ready in Memphis
    Turn 63 - 1480 BC - War Chariot 5 is ready in Thebes

    Turn 65 - 1400 BC - War Chariot 6 is ready in Thebes

    Meanwhile, Shaka believes we are worthy opponents!
    upload_2020-2-23_9-18-38.png

    Taking advantage of this opportunity, we rolled War Chariot 1 to view Ulundi from across the lake.
    upload_2020-2-23_9-19-43.png


    That should tell us everything we need to know. We have 6 War Chariots against 2 CG1 Archers on flat land, and two more arriving in 2 turns.
    :backstab:

    Their strength will be 7.05 and a C1 War Chariot will have strength 5.5. (I calculated 23.71% probability.) We will probably lose two War Chariots taking this city.

    EDIT: Just how many Archers did he build?
     

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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  17. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    He will certainly whip a 3rd archer T1 into the war. So 8 WC for sure. You would likely need more WC if you intend to finish him off. Pends on losses from first attack. Both his other cities appear to be settled on hills. Albeit no cultural defences.

    My only other thought here was mids. You may be too late for this. See what happens. Least you can chop into WC. Not sure you can do both. Least he has no metal yet.

    On plus side Ulundi should be good for chopping wonders. Albeit you would need stone. I would of chopped more forest to have speed up the attack here.
     
  18. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Take 2, Session 1 - When All Else Fails......
    to Turn 26 / 2960 BC

    It was turning into a slog fest that was going to last for ages and I might win a Pyrrhic victory. There was a reason the strength meter showed a big red 0.8. The Zulus had 3 cities and they were all producting Archers and the Zulus could have 5 Archers defending Ulundi and that was just too ugly. Maybe I get somewhere pillaging the countryside and capturing Workers. A worker would be worth about 2 War Chariots. Their Archers have little chance prevailing in open country or attacking. So I felt like I hit a wall and burned out and wanted to see what the alternative looks like.

    "When all else fails, go back to the program and do what the coach says."

    So the fixes were:
    1. Once discovering the Zulus, the mission for Warrior 1 was to scout the southern part of their territory. Warrior 2 will scout the northern part. The alternative was to have Warrior 1 scout all the way around Ulundi and view as many squares as possible. However, I wanted them to explore as much as possible before dying. I think that is the idea. Grab rough terrain for defense where possible. Make short runs across flat terrain. Uncover as much terrain as possible. We might do well to keep something close by in case a Barbarian shows up. I think that is some time in the 40's.

    Right now, we have Warrior 1 6 Turns away and closing and Warrior 2 3 Turns away and moving away.

    2. We built Warrior 2 right after finishing the Work Boat. We might also have done well to finish Warrior 2 before finishing the Work boat, but the cost of about 1 Turn or 5 Food. Another one would have been to start a Worker with the Warrior at 14/15, and gain 2 hammers from having a Worker out 1 Turn sooner. It all comes down to just when we want Warrior 2 out.

    3. I kept Research at 100% instead of messing with the slider. We started with 24 gp from the hut.

    Spoiler :

    Exploring down the coast, we found that hut again.
    upload_2020-2-24_21-18-44.png

    The Barbarians were hostile, but they did not want to fight. We hung around an extra turn, then moved onward to the southwest, where we found they had defeated a Zulu Scout. They were too wounded (1.4/2) to defeat us.

    Here is what the southern part of Ulundi looks like.
    upload_2020-2-24_21-20-34.png

    We have until Turn 50 to explore the northern part.

    Also, where did the Zulus get +23 points from?


    Tech:
    Turn 6 - Fishing (59)
    Turn 13 - Mining (74)
    Turn 25 - Bronze Working (179)

    Events:
    Turn 9 - Somebody founded Buddhism
    Turn 21 - Somebody founded Hinduism

    EDIT - Experimenting with the Warrior - Work Boat - Worker build order, I really like information I get much earlier from building the Warrior right away. For some reason, I get the Worker a turn earlier (Turn 25) and I have not figured out why. From there, I can build the second Work Boat and a couple of Warriors to get to Size 4.

    I will show this tomorrow.

    This is when you say I should start on the Settler. I still do not know if it is better off whipped from 40/100, because I end up at Size 2 and slowly rebuilding. I will do some more figuring tomorrow.

    Also - Your choice of Pyramids is interesting. That is for Representation and bonus beakers for running specialists and bonus happiness? For some reason, I was thinking the Great Lighthouse / Colossus combination.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  19. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,919
    Location:
    UK
    I would part build worker then workboat once you have fishing. Warrior first here adds nothing

    The score will be a mix of techs and culture. I think it shows up 20 turns after it happens.

    I think if you want to rush Zulu you need to aim for 2nd city much sooner. 2520bc or so. Then plan for war chariots.

    Speed is the key. A 1200bc War chariot rush is late. Especially as you don't need any big techs.

    Whipping at size 4 is useful if it speeds up your second city by 3-4 turns. This would have a knock on effect. With 2 strong food resources you would grow back in 4-5 turns.
     
  20. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,691
    Well, I’m trying different things at the start, because as you said, 1200 BC is very late for a chariot rush.

    If the initial build order is:
    Worker
    Work Boat
    Warrior
    How long are we building roads waiting for Bronze Working so we can chop? (I would road to the marble while waiting.)
     

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