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Has 1UPT Completely Destroyed this Franchise?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by CD7, Jan 13, 2017.

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  1. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    In the tactical sense, the AI is a complete joke in civ 1-6 and is not a viable metric for evaluating which side the mechanics favor.

    From a metagaming perspective, the defender needs to be favored to a degree or attacking is the only strategy that is viable. However, civ games have had the tendency to over-favor the defender. There needs to be some consequence for significantly under-investing in military compared to opposition. Since city defenses were much weaker in civ 4, putting half the :hammers: into military compared to your opponent meant you could probably be punished...and note that even that game is very defender-favored due to collateral initiative!

    In civ 5 and 6, the way units can block coupled with the removal of threats like forking make it so that in many situations a defender can win outright while outnumbered 2:1 or 3:1 on equal tech, and that's too far defender favored. At least in civ 6 you have to actually build walls early on if you want them + there is actual incentive to conquer though.
     
  2. historix69

    historix69 Emperor

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    In military history, for battles between equal troops a ratio of 3:1 for the attacker is favoured as a rule of thumb to ensure a high chance of success.
    If you use superior troops like tanks against infantry without AT-weapons or conquistadores against inca troops, then you might be successful with almost any ratio.

    An unprepared unit attacked on march might be hit hard and wiped out, so the defensive bonus must depend on things like defensive preparation (fortification or deployment) and training and cannot be a constant.
    The strength of a defender depends on usage of the terrain and well prepared defensive positions as well as appropriate equipment and number and training.
     
  3. king of nowhere

    king of nowhere Warlord

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    in civ4, with equal tech and everything, you needed about 50% more troops to win, a bit more to do so with any reasonable safety. unless your opponent left some wood conveninently close to his city that you could use for defence. i think that's about right as the advantage needed for the attacker: not too much that it would depress offensive play, but high enough that a small advantage of production won't snowball immediately
     
  4. @Rob76

    @Rob76 Chieftain

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    Noble Zarkon likes this.
  5. Madrox4u

    Madrox4u Chieftain

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    1 UPT fails in this game because you play it on a strategic map, not a tactical wargame map where there is much more space to manouvre. To tackle this in a 1 UPT Strategic map, there are a few, better solutions.

    1) Instead of militairy units per tile, you use Army Groups per tile. With a custom setup of militairy units, you can choose from. Advantages: more challenging, more suited for the scale you play on and no carpets of units on the map.
    To fight it out with another Army group, there are a few options: one, show the fight in a "bubble" on the strategic Map, or , even better maybe, goto a new "battlemap mode" , aka TW series for example, something like that.

    2) Forget 1 UPT, it sucks. Go back to the core, multiple units per tile. Not my first choice, but everything is better then the current system. That 1 upt system is just a dumbed down version, favarouble for the lazy player (less units to deal with).
     
  6. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Moderator Action: Please do not necro threads that are almost 2 years old (particularly just to revive the tired 1 UPT debate). If you want to open a new thread in the Ideas & Suggestions forum regarding a return to multi-UPT in future iterations of Civ, feel free to do so. This thread is closed.
     
    King Rad, Kjimmet, bbbt and 1 other person like this.
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