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Has Civ6 become 3000 times more difficult?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Horizons, Mar 11, 2017.

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  1. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

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    You got to field catapults once the AI has built walls. You could also have cavalry with a ram. However, melee units and horsemen without archer/xbow or catapult support don't get you anywhere
     
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  2. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    I just beat King using France on a random map that turned out to be a pangaea.

    It wasn't the best of starts, but a pangea is still much easier to handle than a bad start on continents and a runaway Civ emerges on another continent much more prosperous than your own (I like the challenge of finding ways to beat them but sometimes it's impossible).

    I was plodding along behind until near the end when I had to kick butt to stop the AIs launching into space. I got a time victory, but maybe could have had a domination or space race if I'd tried a bit harder. Cultural victory seems to be much harder than in Civ5 and religious victory is a joke. Overall it's a similar experience to Civ5 really - being outbuilt, out-teched and out-wondered until such time as you crush the AI through war.
     
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Nah, outbuilding them means out-tech etc.
    They are better at building but still not up to our standard. Its mostly about concentrating on your victory.

    First build a sound foundation for 100 ish turns including a commercial infrastructure + whatever else and then concentrate on your victory including using projects if that's needed.
     
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  4. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    You do get a better chance at many wonders now that they have placement requirements.
     
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  5. cll3

    cll3 Chieftain

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    It definitely did get harder yeah. It used to be impossible to lose even on deity by exploiting 1upt AI fighting weaknesses in early game with triple slingers into archers. Doesn't really matter how many warriors and chariots they bring, or what units they have for defense. There's always plenty of turns before they get their first wall, so you can usually get a good foothold. Then carpeting midgame industrial district radii bonuses will inevitably lead to any kind of victory you want. After industrial radius nerf, I'd say go for commercial + internal trade route spam. Double your effective gold income all game with a delayed completion big ben. AI almost never goes for it, but if they do just reload a save and finish it before them.Once you lock in your double gold, that's usually enough to buy out just about every remaining GP.

    And the OP early game domination civs are still OP... aztec and scythia rushdowns are still a thing, You're just forced to start your wars a few turns later, because you almost invariably get surprise warred early on when you have like 1 warrior 1 slinger, and they bring like 5-6 warriors 1 slinger.

    Still not that hard though, definitely not 3000x. I'd say maybe around 5x harder, which is a decent improvement imo. The main thing I don't like about difficulties 7 or 8 is how hard it is to actually found a religion before they're all gone, unless you go for it hardcore from turn 1, and then the rest of your game is pigeonholed into full resident sleeper.
     
  6. EpicWestern

    EpicWestern Warlord

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    It got a lot harder, but in a good way. Before, after squashing super early game barbarian and archer rushes you could just coast to victory where the only challenge in the game was beating your own times.

    So I've gotten a few post-patch deity losses that were really all my own fault. Pre-patch if you start on an island, alone, it was basically impossible for the AI to take you over due to poor unit management. Now, if you don't build units at all, you will simply lose to an invasion, which is really how it should be. In one of my post-patch victories, I built ancient walls in all of my first 5 cities almost out of spite, but needed all of it as I was attacked by different civs from a lot of different angles.
     
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  7. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    I hope they keep improving the AI as the challenge reignited my interest in the game.
     
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  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I think they have to be careful.

    If the AI is too smart then the OP countries will start eating the other ones up early and snowball
    On higher levels some victory conditions may become impossible to achieve
    It may make the lower levels too hard for noobs

    I think they are well aware of all of this and likely made it easier because of the above
     
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  9. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    This. I've gotten much more play from this patch than the other 2 patches. Up to 283 hours played now. The game is better. Still not perfect by a long shot, but it feels a little better for me.
     
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  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    If domination is possible to achieve, technically all victories aside maybe religious are also possible to achieve, even if it means simply stopping before winning domination.
     
  11. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    I've tried a few starts since the patch but only one almost full game. I made the mistake of deciding on domination early despite having a production-poor start - and it turned out I was on an archipelago map (large islands, but still a lot of distance between them) with only two civs on my own.

    While I probably could have pushed more aggressively, and Rio in particular was in an awkward position to attack, it was the 19th Century before I finally succeeded in taking down both my nearby civs, let alone any elsewhere; I'm evidently not winning the game via domination at this stage - the AI now builds a lot of units, far more than previously, and makes heavy use of archers that it can even use moderately effectively. It won't win any games, and won't often kill units, but it forced me to withdraw repeatedly and declare peace (thanks to war weariness) while I recuperated. It slows domination to a slog which, however, is at least a more entertaining slog than it used to be.

    Though conversely an overseas Spanish attack against me was embarrassingly badly-handled, full of conquistadors that existed mostly to die, even though the Spanish were good at landing on my continent. They never even scratched the walls of my city state Hattusa despite sending many units against it, and actually withdrew from one of my wall-less coastal cities instead of going for the kill. The sheer numbers, again, made it a slog but don't expect the AI to actually capture anything past the early game.
     
  12. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    You'd hope that they nerfed the OP Civs a little before not improving the AI!
     
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  13. Europa Victrix

    Europa Victrix Chieftain

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    I just found a little Barbarian enclave on the other continent. Place had 2 barb settlers and 2 workers. Good job, AI.
     

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  14. HF22

    HF22 Warlord

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    The ability of AIs on higher levels to eat a few others & snowball is precisely what the game needs. Finding a properly large AI on another continent would make the late game far more interesting.
     
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  15. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    There is an old MadDjinn let's play where he's India and for most of the game, Shaka basically eats the rest of the world, and MadDjinn abuses diplomacy to save himself from being wiped out. He outpaces Shaka pretty hard towards the end of the game, but before that happens, it's one of the best and most interesting Let's Plays I've ever seen (even though MadDjinn sat on ... like 3 cities for ages. :p).

    I'd love to see that in Civ VI. The problem is though, there is no real way to stop such steamrolling. Shaka could be outteched, because the many useless cities he conquered drove up his tech costs, in Civ VI, Shaka would just roll towards victory, and all you could do is play more minimalist than him to win before he does, or abuse the combat AI.
     
  16. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Good riddence to such an illogical mechanism as conquest driving up tech costs.
     
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  17. Chibisuke

    Chibisuke Warlord

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    The main difference since the patch for me is it seems the AI uses archers a lot more and less horsemen. This makes sense since the patch changed the tech trees to force them to use archers. The effect is that the AI now has ranged defenders and attackers which makes them more dangerous.

    The impact for player strategy is that you have to be more tactical in drawing out AI defenses from their city area before assault. You gotta kill them all off and ideally they only have one unit left inside city. It will probably be an archer but if you have a good assault force you can still take the city.

    As for early game defense, I still play the same on deity as I have before. Start with building slingers. Send your warrior out to find a nearby civ with an unguarded settler and quickly declare war and take it. Then use your slingers to kill off their army as it approaches your city.
     
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  18. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Agreed.

    But it's still a problem to have AIs that can potentially run away with the game without the player being able to really stop them in ways that are not extremely cheesy.
    What the game needs for such a system to work is ways with which you can sabotage specific players that you can't really reach on the map. The spy system is the perfect candidate for that, but currently it doesn't really fill that function.
     
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  19. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    I'll admit that I am not bothered by an AI really being able to run away with the game. I just view that as another challenge that I need to surmount. As in I need to get faster n better to not allow that. But it will happen from time to time regardless of what we do.

    I think if it needs addressing, you are proposing a good answer. Espionage is definitely a realistic way in which distant civilizations can have a real impact on each other. I'd like to see it get expanded, and those mechanics should tie in well with the return of a diplomatic victory which most of us think they're likely to try with the first expansion.
     
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  20. EpicWestern

    EpicWestern Warlord

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    Just lost another deity game in which I went for early religion, failed in that, then tried to switch to science but was almost taken over. Was down to 3 cities for most of the game, eventually battled back with artillery and balloon to take two back but in the process... got nuked! First time I had that happen in civ6. Actually the AI nuked my capital about 5 times in a row, then laid off for about 20 turns, then nuked it 3-4 more times, then another flurry for a third time. Eventually I figured I had to tech up to the mobile SAM, which supposedly defends against nukes but it didn't work (maybe it would defend against air, but not submarine nukes?). Anyway, spies were pillaging enemy spaceports all game, and I would swear that the new patch makes a cultural victory significantly more difficult, especially for the AI. Eventually lost just due to turn limit, though it was close enough I would have won on turn 502 or so.
     
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