Has firaxis lost it?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by sherbz, Mar 20, 2015.

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  1. sherbz

    sherbz Deity

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    Ok, this is pretty much how I feel about firaxis and BE. IMO Firaxis now need to pull their finger out. Because currently I feel that Meier is taking the company to a dark place. And also one from which it will not return from. People were patient with civ 5 because there was nothing else. I doubt whether they will be as patient with civ 6 what with the advent of paradox.

    http://www.reaxxion.com/1531/civilization-beyond-earth-shows-firaxis-has-lost-touch#prettyPhoto
     
  2. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

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    -Reads articles
    -Reads Top Articles titles

    what the is that site and why did you make me waste my time?
     
  3. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    How is Skyrim a "middle finger" to the gaming community? Skyrim is a fantastic game.
     
  4. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Many people complained that it tossed way to many rpg-elements to make it appeal to as many "casual players" as possible. Most old-school-rpg-fans cried when they saw what skyrim had become and compared it to Morrowind.

    Now, as someone being in the middle of those both worlds I actually liked Skyrim for its atmosphere and aesthetic. But still, compared to what Morrowind had to offer in terms of RPG, Skyrim is a joke. MMO-like quests, factions that didn't really have that much depth, no dynamics, no negative consequences (other than maybe becoming a vampire and then having to walk in the dark for the rest of your playthrough), etc... I disagree with the author though, I can't see how that game is a middlefinger to gamers. It's just what the big market wants these days.
     
  5. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    I sadly know what that site is, but I echo the second question.
     
  6. Victus75

    Victus75 Chieftain

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    Agreed, such trash. I don't feel like digging to find this Skyrim article, it's not showing up for me under Top Articles (if that's where it shows for other people).

    On topic: uh... maybe?
     
  7. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    It's not a separate article, it's a jab somewhere in the middle of this article.

    But yeah, that site is weird to say the least. Looks like the extremist end of gamergate (at least I hope that's as extreme as it gets :D). Although I'm actually with him on some topics, like that the recent "Don't cosplay in sexy costumes!"-bans are stupid. But the extreme position he takes at things is just ridiculous.
     
  8. Victus75

    Victus75 Chieftain

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    Ah thanks for the clarification!
     
  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I never played Morrowind, but I played Oblivion and I thought Skyrim was a big improvement on that. I'm not really much of an RPG'er, I guess. Skyrim was the first "RPG" I really got into.

    Oh, and I looked around that site a bit, some of the articles and a lot of the comments are so misogynistic it's like I'm in an episode of Mad Men or hanging out with Congressional Republicans.
     
  10. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Well, most TES fans I know prefer Morrowind over Oblivion. It feels relatively slow, but it has a TON of texts for nearly everything, adding a lot of flavor to the whole world. Characters had a lot more to say and factions were more integrated into the whole experience. Not to mention that you could actually mess up your relationship with nearly everybody and in many cases becoming friends with one faction would get you into trouble with another faction, etc. etc. - there was just so much to learn about the world. /edit: Oh and of course extensive Quest Descriptions and manually searching for items instead of just magically knowing where you have to go to.

    Links please? :D
     
  11. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    I don't think Firaxis has "lost it". They are still quite capable of making good, fun, games. As simple as Starships might be, it actually has the "just one more turn" feeling more than BE does, at least for me.

    I think the real issue is that Firaxis seems to be steering towards more casual games in order to appeal to new gamers which is alienating the hardcore civ fanbase who want the opposite. The long-time hardcore civ player wants a deeper and more complex game.
     
  12. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but I'm going to take you seriously here.

    First off, the tag is "gaming news and reviews for masculine men"--bit of a red flag from the get-go.

    Then you have this article called "Why Male Gamers Must Defend Their Territory", which is really quite a simian framing to begin with. The article itself is full of misogynistic trash and the author, Mike Caputo's description says "You can find him on Twitter @hanytimeh smacking down SJWs, jihadis, and ********s."

    Yeah, that's right--apparently "SJWs" and "********s" are in the same boat as jihadis to this guy. That's not even Congressional Republican territory, that's Rush Limbaugh "bat**** insane" territory.

    Moderator Action: Please leave the political comments out of the gaming forums. If you wish to discuss this, please head on over to OT.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    There are many more indications but that will do for now. The article linked in the OP does make some points that I agree with, but it's pretty clear which side of "gamergate" that site takes and it isn't the side of civilized human beings.

    This certainly describes me, at least to some extent. Which is why I found it very interesting that people apparently have the same complaints about Skyrim (and thanks Ryika for explaining some of those issues to me). I guess that places me in the "BE/casual" camp in the context of RPGs--something to think about, for sure.
     
  13. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    I actually was serious, because of the word "misogynist" is thrown around like a buzzword so often these days and the few articles I skimmed through did, while certainly rather extreme, not really seem "misogynistic" to me. The article you linked does not either (although it certainly shows his disdain for modern feminism, but more on that later). I'm not entirely sure if that guy really is a legitimate "misogynist", but he's certainly doing a good job at making it look like he has some complexes that he needs to cover by trying to be as "masculine" as possible. :D

    But 1 by 1:

    Yes, I always cringe when someone writes about "masculine men" as if that makes them "better", or as if that's something one has to strife for. Sounds very outdated.

    I'm not really sure about this one. It really depends against whom they want to defend it. I can agree with them in part, as many elements of games that are preferred by the average male gamer have come under fire by the twitter outrage crew lately and if you take them by their word, then many of them want to literally ban those elements from games in general - that is of course nonsense and something that all gamers, not only the male ones, should protest against. Outsiders should not decide what is "right" and what is not. But at the same time, yes, there swings a strong unspoken "against women" below the surface of how that article is phrased. Making that a "men vs. women"-thing is nonsense, the market is big enough to have games that both genders can enjoy. But I can understand that he wants to defend the right to have games geared towards men.

    I feel a bit weird defending this guy, but still, coming back to the feminism part now: SJWs and "********s" are not synonymous for women, they're rather groups who claim to speak for "all women", when in reality more and more women dislike the term feminism for the insane things that extremists say and do in the name of feminism. I think putting the three words into one sentence like that is nonsense and his view on the world seems to be rather distorted, but at the same time I can't see how that - or anything that was said in that article - really is "misogynistic".

    Yes, that I completely agree with.
     
  14. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Moderator Action: No need to introduce gamergate or feminism into the BE forums. If you want to have that discussion, Off Topic is the place. Thanks.
     
  15. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    Well, X-COM was certainly streamlined compared to the original. So, yeah, they are aiming for "a wider audience". Which is not necessarily bad, but... not 100% for me.

    As for the "losing it": I assume Sid has little direct influence over their games anymore. They are just using his name as a brand mostly (and probably let him do some consulting).

    I must say, though, that my perspective of the company has declined quite a bit. CIV5 and BE were really sub-par on release and their vision of X-COM clashed pretty harsh with mine. But, hey, maybe CIV6 will turn the tide. We'll see.
     
  16. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    I think today pretty much everyone who is not an indie dev who just does that stuff in his free time for fun needs to cater to a "wider audience" - even things like Dark Souls do. But of course there's a difference between changing things around so that a game is easy to get into and to play on a low level and just removing much of what made the previous, more complex titles interesting for many people. The "Easy to learn, hard to master"-principle does a good job at that and I tend to find that games that lack this principle for the most part end up very bland.

    I actually liked the new X-Com though (with the exception of the "Will I have vision?"-problems) - AND I never played the original, which seems to be a common theme in many cases.
     
  17. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    I'm not convinced by the common complaint of games appealing to a 'wider audience'. I would've thought that means, by definition, that more people like the game. It also seems eminently reasonable for a AAA company to be wanting to sell many copies of its games, rather than aiming for a narrower 'hard core' segment, which would surely make it no longer a AAA company.
     
  18. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    I am going to go out on a huge limb (since civ6 has not even been announced yet) and say that if the trend continues, that I predict many here will be disappointed with civ6. I hope I am wrong. I hope firaxis really puts a lot in the game and makes it amazing. But I suspect that Firaxis will stick to their conservative approach and therefore many hardcore civ fans will find civ6 too casual for their tastes.
     
  19. jmm

    jmm Chieftain

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    My two cents (Extensive rant warning)
    I coincide with the headline and some of the ideas expressed on the article. Beyond Earth to me is Beyond Boring to the point of falling asleep while playing.

    But to me, BE and Spaceships are only the latest sympton.

    I feel the problem with Firaxis is Sid himself. He does what he wants in his position of "boss designer" (regardless of the actual title he holds). He is also infatuated with the mobile/lite school of thought lately.

    ITOH, 2K likes to make money out of games. Being it a casual, regular, hardcore, mobile or whatever game, it doesn't matter if it sells enough. And Right now mobile is a big thing for making money out of it.

    So if Sid likes or tends towards mobile designs and "marketing" tells 2K that mobile sells, there is nothing to stop Sid to make mobile and light stuff (compared to the stuff he used to make) even at the expense of his name/reputation (They have Firaxicon and PR stuff to "get it back")

    Further, if the game is not light or mobile enough I feel that there is not much opposition from within Firaxis to prevent adding 2K imposed concepts, ideas or biases (just look at how they screwed the start menu in BE or incorporated "Spaceships Ads" into BE). If there was opposition, then we are really attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis (screwed)

    The other problem with Firaxis is that Sid is still actively around, and I'm really sorry about what I will say about the guys working at Firaxis: I DONT believe that you have a suitable successor/replacement or at least a group that could do it. I believe that you will be stuck with him and Sid's well of good and innovative ideas is almost (if not already) dry.
    Unless Sid steps out, you will live in his shadow.

    If this continues for some time, there is nothing to stop 2K to dismantle Firaxis, like EA did with Maxis (Is BE the next "SimCity 2013"?)

    Anyway, it is my opinion. If you don't like it let's keep it civil.
     
  20. Darsnan

    Darsnan Emperor

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    If that's true, then that doesn't bode well for sites such as CFC, Apolyton, and WePlayCiv, as their core constituency are the hardcore gamers.

    I'm going to throw my $0.02 in here. Why pay $50 for a newly released AAA title which needs to be incessantly patched, and has been streamlined for the casual gamer, when instead you can pay less than $5 for yesterdays AAA titles which have been fully patched, and were designed for the true hardcore gamers that frequent sites like this, myself included? Company's like GoG have a HUGE catalog of yesterdays AAA titles for new gamers just coming online to discover and enjoy!


    D
     
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