Has it ever appeared to anyone, that Charlemagne was not the leader of HRE?

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And America in Civ is a joke. Our influence is minimal: Oh, yes, world bloc, military bases everywhere: tell you what, American hegemony is going to collapse in twenty years. Then we, the Americans, will become "footnotes to history."

Yah in the same way as the Soviet union came into power and went out of it.
 
And what's all this rubbish about a typical american view of poland? I've never been to America and have no American ancestry. Is this another symptom of your parochialism coming out that you feel the need to brand anyone disagreeing with your views as being part of the evil empire of America?

The american thing wasn't directed to you.

And read our history at some time. you'll find it interesting.
 
I told you PotatoOverdose - there's no arguing with ignorance.

Ultimately, the argument always comes back to "Poland's BIG though... it should be in" which you have to understand is actually a victory on your part, because it is about the only actual fact you will get here rather than highly polished and reinterpreted accounts of history that no non-Polish historian would ever accept.

I have nothing whatsoever against Polish people or Poland, and I have read about their history in depth... but the Poles on this site are rabid nationalists who demand that others recognise their "superiority" in all things.

Just ignore them because the rest of the world knows the truth.
 
I told you PotatoOverdose - there's no arguing with ignorance.

Ultimately, the argument always comes back to "Poland's BIG though... it should be in" which you have to understand is actually a victory on your part, because it is about the only actual fact you will get here rather than highly polished and reinterpreted accounts of history that no non-Polish historian would ever accept.

I have nothing whatsoever against Polish people or Poland, and I have read about their history in depth... but the Poles on this site are rabid nationalists who demand that others recognise their "superiority" in all things.

Just ignore them because the rest of the world knows the truth.

hmm you seem pretty anti-polish to me!

You have the "argueing ignorance" look, and the Rabid Nationalist talk... Yap. Anti-Polish. Yet another one. :lol:
 
I told you PotatoOverdose - there's no arguing with ignorance.

Ultimately, the argument always comes back to "Poland's BIG though... it should be in" which you have to understand is actually a victory on your part, because it is about the only actual fact you will get here rather than highly polished and reinterpreted accounts of history that no non-Polish historian would ever accept.

I have nothing whatsoever against Polish people or Poland, and I have read about their history in depth... but the Poles on this site are rabid nationalists who demand that others recognise their "superiority" in all things.

Just ignore them because the rest of the world knows the truth.

hmm you seem pretty anti-polish to me!

You have the "argueing ignorance" look, and the Rabid Nationalist talk... Yap. Anti-Polish. Yet another one. :lol:

The truth is, i could give better arguements, but i'm bored to death with repeating them. if you really want to fight this, go and look at my posts from a month or to ago.
 
And read our history at some time. you'll find it interesting.

I don't doubt for a minute it's interesting. I know quite a bit of it from going out with a Polish girl for six months last year. I just don't think Poland has had a big enough inluence on the world at any point in time to warrant inclusion in the game, the same with us Scots who, it could be argued, had a far more important impact on the world through our ideas and technological and scientific breakthroughs than Poland ever did.
As someone mentioned earlier, it comes down to how you define a civilization. As much as i'd love Scotland to be included for the reasons mentioned above i feel it would detract from the game being what it is intended to be, namely a game about civilizations, and would turn it into a country building game rather than an empire building game.
Scotland isn't a distinct civilization from England, Ireland and Wales even though we have different educational and legal and political systems and have been home to two distinct languages: Old Scots and Scots Gaelic.
By the same token Poland hasn't been distinctive enough to be thought of as a civilization. For the thousand years since it's first inception as a unified entity three hundred and fifty of those years have been spent under various systems of partitioning or as a series of fragmented states. At no time has Poland dominated the affairs of Europe and beyond or influenced social, philosophical or religious thought to such a degree that it can be said to worthy of inclusion in a game about civilizations.
 
hmm you seem pretty anti-polish to me!

You have the "argueing ignorance" look, and the Rabid Nationalist talk... Yap. Anti-Polish. Yet another one. :lol:

:lol: :lol:

No, I am just anti-ignorance. I'm not against any nation whatsoever, lines drawn on a map hold very little interest to me other than historically.

Polish people are fine, it's just a couple of idiots here who seem to be paid to spread propaganda and misinformation in the guise of history.

TheLastOne36 said:
The truth is, i could give better arguements, but i'm bored to death with repeating them. if you really want to fight this, go and look at my posts from a month or to ago.

Number 1) I don't want to fight, but you cant expect people to swallow your nationalist interpretation of facts and accept them as truth when they are lies. 2) Repeating your lies does not make them right, it just means that you have no more proof than you did before.... pure fantasy.

I know your return though - post a load of rubbish with some poorly hidden insults, use *** to cover vulgarities thereby evading the auto-censor and quantity is most definitely focused on over quality. At least you make sense, rather than LuKo who seems to be telling children a fairy story half the time.
 
Your a moron. Russia didn't became powerful in medieval europe BECAUSE of them!!!!
Wrong. See wikipedia links bellow for testimony to the contrary.



AND Russia failed.
wrong again. see Muscovy under the history section of the wikipedia article on Russia.


Those were Tatars not Mongols. Your confusing yourself.
see Khanate of The Golden Horde
They where in fact of Mongolian and Turkish origins. Learn your facts before you criticize others.
We lasted longer then the French. Your point?
Wrong yet again. Poland lasted 27 days. See wikipedia.

France lasted 45 days. See wikipedia again.
(I'm counting from date of hostile force trespassing borders to date of capitulation by government)


1. I said this almost half-jokingly.
2. Courland was no more a failure then the Swedish colonization lol.
3. you said poland did not colonize, i corrected you. I did not say courland was great.
If thats what polish people call colonization....well you have your answer right there...thats why Poland isnt featured in Civ 4 and never will be.


It's in my home town, so yes i do consider it a wonder! :D
The United states has an average of 2-3 such wonders per state. Many other modernized nations can boast the same per city/province


Leave CFC intill you have a brain about Polish History.
If I leave CFC, who will correct all of your historical fallacies?
You must be American right? No one else would talk about Poland like that.
And wrong yet again.....I've even lost count of the number of times you were wrong...

So in short your replies consist of more fallacies then truth.... Mind you wikipedia is not the best source on the internet, but even it show that your statements are predominantly false.

I would call "uninformed", PotatoOverdose, your view of Poland.

But time and time again these arguments prove fruitless in all their endeavors. Poland's not in Civ because of elitists like yourself.

But I'm pulling out, and I'd advise you to read what you deface better: I never once compared Poland to any of England, Portugal, Spain, or America.

And America in Civ is a joke. Our influence is minimal: Oh, yes, world bloc, military bases everywhere: tell you what, American hegemony is going to collapse in twenty years. Then we, the Americans, will become "footnotes to history."
Well at least you don't post blatant fallacies like a certain other individual. As to your statement regarding the "American Hegemony"... well you might be right, only time will tell. However, one of the advantages for making the U.N. or the Apostolic Palace is that you will always be eligible for votes. And since Civ was made predominantly by Americans, and made and published in America as well...It only makes sense that America will always be eligible for a position as a Civilization:goodjob: .
 
I have a question:

Did they call it the Carolingian Empire when Charlemagne was ruler?

If not why do some people gladly say that Charlemagne ruled the Carolingian Empire but are abhorred by the thought of him ruling the Holy Roman Empire?

If the Carolingian Empire is itself a term invented by historians why does it have more weight with some people when talking about Charlemagne's dominion than the Holy Roman Empire?
 
no i think gilgamesh is real. they have a list of kings that has gilgamesh's name on it. the list dates from sumerian times while the accepted version of the epic of gilgamesh comes from babylonian times, although i believe some tablets that are similar to the epic date from sumerian times. but there was a king in uruk who went by the name of gilgamesh, he must've been something else to have such a tale told about him.

You are correct, Gilgamech is real, but the great things we know him for arent
 
Just read all the posts.

I'm still waiting for TheLastOne to apologize for "Spanish is spoken more than English than the world," then counting Brazil as a "spanish" nation and not counting Australia or Ireland as "English" speaking nations.
And I speak both, so I don't prefer one to the other. I like logical arguments. But everytime he is confronted with one he retreats to what they taught him in primary school or ignores them.

And the Spodek thing was hilarious. C'mon, surely you've got some kind of palace or justice hall or cathedral or something. I gotta believe Poland did more than build one stadium. Give yourself more credit.

Finally, yes, Poland had some glory days. But they did not single handedly beat off the Mongol invasion. They won some battles, but mostly the Horde had leadership problems and lacking supply lines and went home.

Oh and Copernicus was not the first to think the world is round. The Arabs and Mayans knew it, and other European scholars were talking about it with him. It became known as the Copernican model because he wrote the most common studied paper. Just like Galileo did not "invent" the telescope, it was around. He just refined the technique and got the local nobs to name him inventor so it was official.

Poland is a great place, and I would enjoy charging some Hussars at my foes. But they won't get into the game because of the Spodek (that just makes me laugh) or Copernicus (He's in the game already) or a few key battles (they didn't beat the Mongols, they won a battle, maybe "saving Europe from Islam" prolonged the Dark Ages) or for representation (we've talked about this) or for the number of pointless posts in CFC. IT WILL BE IN THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES. AND I CAN'T FAULT FIRAXIS FOR PICKING THE CIVS THEY HAVE AND NOT POLAND, I THINK THEY HAVE EQUAL OR BETTER CLAIMS. Note I am not insulting your claim here, I just think theirs are also valid.

And stop bashing America. What did America do to you? I live here now, and I like it very much. I don't think its perfect, but I'm still happy to be here and would say it is no more or less "great" than other countries in the world. I'm not bashing Poland or anti-polish, I just don't agree with some of your arguments.
 
And America in Civ is a joke. Our influence is minimal: Oh, yes, world bloc, military bases everywhere: tell you what, American hegemony is going to collapse in twenty years. Then we, the Americans, will become "footnotes to history."

you don't get it, do you? In most parts of the world it is equally or more likely for a military coup to control the state than an elected government of the people. In South America we know all too well that one charismatic general can spill the whole thing.
America has never had a military coup in their history. They've had a working democracy for longer than any other existing. American culture has been exported all over the world. They pay the majority of the dues for the United Nations (and built it) and more foreign aid for third world countries comes from America than any two nations combined. No country can compete with them militarily, that's why terrorism is the only option (no responsibility).
Now, they have their fare share of snobs, pigs, liars and con artists. And a lot of them are smug. But I don't think it is more or less than any other civilization. Meanwhile, you have freedom of speech, press, you can call Bush a fat liar to his face here without getting shot for it.
I just think if you've lived in a struggling country, and come to America, you don't think America is perfect but you really see why they became a superpower. There are opportunities and freedoms here that other places crave.
Note, I love Argentina, and Brazil, and even have had the opportunity to visit Canada, Mexico, Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile. I would have much postive to say on all of those. But I live in America, and there's a lot of good things going for it. Be fair.
 
Actually it's more unfair that the country of cheese eating surrender monkeys gets three leaders.
agressive but come on, France had a major impact on history. I prefer Nappy and Louis, i Dont understand the other guy but who cares.

Also, Stalin and Mao are worthless anti-civilisation scum and shouldn't be in the game.
wow. I disagree with being anti-Civilization and not being allowed in the game. They had tremendous impact on the world. by only including the "good guys" theres n ofun, we need people we can say hey hes suppose to be bad Im taking him down, or hey he suppose to be bad, I WANNA BE HIM MUAHAHAHAHA.

And Ethiopia is a joke, especially led by a weak fool like Zara Yaqob.
I'll agree.

And I get Roosevelt and Lincoln for America, but Washington? Come on, he may be the first President but he's primarily a general. Politically, he's blander than a beige Volkswagon van. Clearly it should've been Thomas Jefferson.
I get Roosevelt and Washington, both were great leaders. Washington was probably put in primarily because of the Revolution, and that he was the first. However Washington was a great President. He came to power because America was crumbling without leadership. If it weren't for George Washington, I very much doubt that America would of become a country, until much later. I watched History Channel Specials on Washington and the Revolution, there were key moments that If there was no Washington, then all would of been lost, and other moments when there was almost no Washington. Now I don't really understand Lincoln. The only reason people even remember him is because of the American Civil War, and when people say "He was a great leader" all they say is "He kept the union together", or "destroyed the rebellion" All he did was force part of the country into rejoining the other, when his election was one(of MANY REASONS, and it was more or less the last draw) that they left. Now I understand FDR, he had 4 terms, had I believe 14 Years in office? lead America through the Great Depression(it's debated on whether or not it was him or other factors that did it, but I'm certain his work programs had to at least help) Lead us through a World War, and if I'm not mistaken he authorized the creation of the Atomic Bomb. He had a huge impact on US history, and A huge impact on world history. I do believe however, Teddy Roosevelt should of been put in before any other American Leader, T.R. Was one of the greatest(I say he is) Presidents of all time. This is a man, who helped the Panamanians gain independence from Columbia(yeah I know we got the Panama Canal out of it lol ) The Great White Fleet showed that America talk softly but carried a big stick. An Avid Hunter that created several wildlife reserves, establishing National Parks. First President to Win a Nobel Prize, for signing a treaty between Russia and Japan. Youngest American President. Was beofre a speech, put his finger in the wound, and Did the speech anyway.


AND WHERE'S CANADA?
Although I believe Canada does deserve to be in the game, more so than some other countries that are in the game, They haven't had a HUGE effect on the world history. Trust me I'd love to have Canada on there, More or less so I can have my Vassal attack with it's mountees lol.
 
And America in Civ is a joke. Our influence is minimal: Oh, yes, world bloc, military bases everywhere: tell you what, American hegemony is going to collapse in twenty years. Then we, the Americans, will become "footnotes to history."

...... WHAT?? Our Influence is minimal? Seriously? A world without America.....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G3zLY1k-4pg

America has huge influence on the world. Whether you like it or not.
 
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