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Has Pingala made the early game duller?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Victoria, Feb 11, 2019.

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Will Pingala made the early game duller in your view?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    9.9%
  2. No

    57 vote(s)
    70.4%
  3. don't care

    13 vote(s)
    16.0%
  4. In thread response different to the above

    3 vote(s)
    3.7%
  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    With the ability to boost science culture early with Pingala have we lost that early desperate rush for a first envoy at a culture CS or such a need to settle on that mercury? Not such a need to build a monument? Everyone gets to knights faster.

    So it may be fairer that everyone gets similar culture if they choose so early but it feels like it takes the edge off trying to claw any culture I can out of an early game.
     
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  2. Steamboat Willem

    Steamboat Willem Chieftain

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  3. Deggial

    Deggial Chieftain

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    I am bad at this game and do not understand. For me, it seems that:
    1. There are still other valid options for the first govenor. Magnus is still a good choice even with reduced chopping benefits, if a settler rush is the goal.
    2. With Pingala as an easy source of culture/science, additional sources such as city states or monuments might be percental less impactfull. But they are still additional sources and as culture/science is sparse in the early game, quite notable ones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  4. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

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    I'm still going to want Magnus for no-pop settlers
     
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  5. Gali

    Gali Chieftain

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    First off, I doubt anything in GS will be as broken as R&F release Magnus with unnerfed chops. Secondly Magnus is still there and incredibly powerful. Thirdly, how are you going to get and store enough iron for your knight rush and have enough money to pay for it. Can't you let people who want to actually grow their cities past size 5 have on thing in civ 6. Having actually powerful and unique governor's is probably my most anticipated part of GS. Going Musa rush for Reyna and use that gold to fill in production. Have a volcano coastal city well go with Liang. Going for faith Moksha is actually not utterly horrible anymore. Want to pull off the Marbozir Hungarian rush or mass Diplo Favor, try Amani
     
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  6. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer Chieftain

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    I don't think it's that big of an issue seeing as how you need two promotions to get the most out of the revised Pingala. And you have to weigh that against the revised governors. Science is great but not losing population with Magnus is really useful. I think it's too early to say whether or not it will negatively affect the early game.
     
  7. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    I feel that they have simply created some alternative solution to Magnus, and if it turns out that Pingala is the new go-to governor (i.e., what Magnus is today), then it's not really a bad change (more of a neutral, unnecessary one).
     
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  8. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    I don't think so. I'm sure people will push Pingala as the meta because yields, but ultimately it depends on your strategy, the civilization, and the map.

    The other governors got boosts themselves. Using 2-3 points on Pingala to boost one city means you don't have 2-3 points on other governors.

    Most importantly, you are delaying later promotions that are frankly way better off than Pingala's. It's simply a trade-off you have to consider.

    If you start off in a densely forested area, Magnus might be superior for quick development.
    Liang will be excellent for coastal starts.
    If you have a really valuable city state nearby, Amani will be your best bet.

    Civilizations that want to expand immediately will net more culture/science overall through population and monuments than one city with a little bit more culture and science.

    Out of the civilizations I plan to play, the Inca comes to mind for that.

    Phoenicia in will likely pursue a Free Inquiry golden age with lots of settlements and harbors, making Magnus into Reyna far more appropriate than Pingala.

    Mali may find more value in maxing out Moksha and Reyna.
     
  9. TomKQT

    TomKQT Chieftain

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    How exactly is Pingala going to be changed in GS?

    Because in RF Pingala never was my first governor. And in fact not even the second or third one, he comes usually after Liang, Marcus and Amani (these three are not listed in order).
     
  10. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    The governors have a few changes and switches.

    In this case, the two Tier 1 promotions are now +1 culture per population and +1 science per population.
     
  11. Sagax

    Sagax Warlord

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    Beat broken with broken, I guess. Magnus chopping is still lucrative.
     
  12. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Chieftain

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    I abstain from voting cause I really don't know yet. Watching is vastly different to actually play the game for me...
     
  13. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    To me, I think it's going to be a bigger rush for governor titles now as the main change. Because more often than not, I'm still going to want to put a point into Amani for the era scores of suzerains.

    I think the biggest problem is not going to be early game, it will be mid-game. Because there's now a ton of governor promotions I want ASAP:
    Amani (1)
    Pingala (4)
    Liang (1)
    Magnus (1)

    Not to mention getting titles for Reyna or Moksha and district purchasing, or Reyna's double-adjacency if I have a good CH-Harbor triangle with the golden age. Even Victor I definitely could want a couple titles in if I'm desperate for resources or loyalty. Or if water-logged, getting production from Liang's second title could be big. If I take the 7 titles above, that means that I'm not getting the 4 titles for district purchasing until practically the modern era.
     
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  14. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    I like how there's more competition.
     
  15. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Pingala is probably the best choice under many circumstances, but especially if you have a lot of growth in your capital, but other Governors are still viable in other situations.

    Magnus is a good choice for explosive expansion. Particularly on larger maps where there is lots of space to fill.

    Hungary and other city-state reliant civs will want Amani first to get their suze on.

    Mali will want Reyna.

    Ottomans will want Ibrahim to facilitate their early rush for a conquered city.
     
  16. MrRadar

    MrRadar Chieftain

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    That's for sure, the Government Plaza moved up in ranking for earlier build significantly. It will also be interesting to feel the resource system for units in practice. What use is to arrive at knights earlier than you have enough resources for them.
     
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  17. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    So far all the responses seem to boil down to "you have a lot more choices now" which is a very, very positive thing.

    The fact that now choice of early Governor/Governor Promotions may vary wildly based on your situation, neighbors, city sites, Civilization choice, and strategy is, I always thought, the kind of Situational Choices that the Designers have been trying for since Civ VI first came out.
     
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  18. Architect

    Architect Chieftain

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    The work done on the governors is the best redesign we've seen so far in Civ 6.
     
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  19. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Is it "duller" or "more dull"?

    But yes, seems that there'll be easier culture and science gains in a game where techs and civics already outpace other elements like production and growth. If that engine of efficiency is about those three all-powerful knights with rams to which you may be alluding, the game may indeed be duller. The window to assured victory grows smaller.

    Well, we have more options, but you can have tons of options without any real choices.

    Civ VI already offers tons of options, we just disregard a great many of them. Magnus didn't become the de facto governor prime because he was the only governor players could choose. People are entering Gathering Storm with lots of healthy hopes and expectations, which is nice and all, but I suspect there will be some consensus about a go-to governor and in the minds of many the rest will be consigned to niche choices.

    (And to those who feel the urge to note that not all players concern themselves with optimal gameplay and experiment and sandbox and abuse the word "role-play" to define self-imposed goals, rest assured your existence is acknowledged)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  20. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Warlord

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    The comparative forms are:
    Dull - Duller - Civ VI End Game

    There's no sign that they've done anything to make the last two Eras of the game any more interesting, and so your best games will still be the ones that end before you have to monotonously click through them.
    I'm positively looking forward to never seeing a Giant Dull Robot in any of my games. . .
     

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