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Has RT dramatically improved the game?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by CraigMak, Oct 17, 2015.

  1. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    The title says it all. I heard that RT is out and I'm wondering if it changed enough about the game to make it worth playing compared to BNW. Is it still just a bum rush to orbital lasers and units unable to take cities due to absurdly strong defensive buildings?

    My experience with naval units in the past were that they were very OP compared to anything on the ground and easily took out cities. Considering this why would one put a city in the ocean? It seems like they would be a sitting duck for naval carnage unless they have dramatically higher defense than land cities.

    Is it still the same game with some new stuff added or a completely better game now?
     
  2. LORD ORION

    LORD ORION Chieftain

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    Improved? For sure.

    Traits, Artifacts, tech tree rearrangement, longer time on some tile improvements (like academies) and cost adjustments (workers up, colonists down) give alot of options to explore.

    As for oceanic cities, high attack and movement of naval units, and LOWER defenses on oceanic cities makes them pretty vulnerable. So much that you need to clear naval units before taking an oceanic city or you'll just lose it the next turn.

    Having said that, there is alot of bat crazy broken stuff that is allowing people to win at turn 150 and less. It needs to get balanced out before you can play it multiplayer fairly.
     
  3. Gamewizard

    Gamewizard Chieftain

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    I'd imagine that multiplayer is fairly balanced. It's the AI that is holding this game back.
     
  4. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Thus far, overall, I seem to be enjoying the game more than vanilla CBE.

    Also overall, doesn't it seem that in practically EVERY solo game, the AI is the major drawback?
     
  5. ShaggyCan

    ShaggyCan Chieftain

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    I wonder how long or if some of the super modders will jump in with a balance patch. This game could really rock with a solid mod or two. You guys all know the DEVs never get it right till they steal it from the modding community :)
     
  6. Halbbruder

    Halbbruder Chieftain

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    Well, I have read various threads here and yeah I've made my mind up and I am going to get RT. More good words of expansion than bad and BE steam store has reviews still mixed at 52% of 13,000 or so reviews.

    Just waiting for a sale though. Maximum discount I'm predicting is 33%, sitting at $20USD for expansion.
     
  7. Polycrates

    Polycrates Chieftain

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    I ain't no super modder, but I have one on the boil at the moment (precisely because it seems to be the best way to get devs to make balance changes). I'm hoping to try and release a first version within the week.
    So far it's abundantly clear that internal trade routes are, as expected, the biggest key to the crazy imbalance - just toning them down a bit makes an ENORMOUS difference to how quickly things snowball. They're still useful, but they don't kick off so much of a ridiculous positive feedback loop. The pacing feels a lot better, I think.

    There's a bunch of other stuff, but just that and removing the prosperity free settler seem to do a hell of a lot of good on their own.
     
  8. nimling

    nimling Chieftain

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    From everything I've read, it's like they completely ignored what was wrong with BE and Civ V, and added even more broken features, making a bigger mess and the same mistakes. Diplomacy features are pretty bad when they are designed for the human to manipulate - I don't know of a world where people would trade their abilities in MP unless aligned with each other. 1UPT is still a cancerous influence Firaxis refuses to correct, but hey here are some more broken units to use (and re-introducing the flaw of melee ships taking cities, which basically gauarantees gunboat spam for anyone on the coast).

    START by scrapping 1UPT and many of the Civ 5 featuers that were a bad idea from the start, and rebuilding the base game. It's some hard work but the end game will be much, much better in the long run. Unfortunately, Firaxis has committed to 1UPT and can't back down, which guarantees that a better game will steal it's market eventually.

    The lack of playtesting is obvious, but worse is that Firaxis refuses to listen to people who know what a good game is, and cater to people who don't know what they really want. STuff like trade route spam being brokenly strong is something that ought to have been fixed in the base game, and a lot of that is due to small cities being even better for internal routes than large cities, due to the broken math behind internal routes. Instead of fixing the problem, BE just put a cap on how many broken routes a city could have. International routes have a similar problem, smaller cities sending to bigger cities have an inherent advantage that is counter-intuitive counter-logical, and unbalancing in favor of ICS.
     
  9. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    It take times and dedication to make solid mod, and that modder would have to "love", in definition of feel the urge to fix this thing, for Civ BE.

    If one didn't start trying to fix the game by himself/herself. Anything else he/she is doing is a form of waiting.
     
  10. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    1U
    1UPT was a massive leap forward in game design and battle mechanics. It makes for far more strategy when mounting an attack and in the placement of cities. Without 1UPT terrain is almost irrelevant. Just stack all your units on the 1 tile you can hit the city from and there ya go. With 1UPT it's actually smart to not clear forest/jungle, settle behind mountains etc..

    I played exclusively MP when I played BE and it was nothing more than a dash to orbital lasers to kill some one and 99% of the community didn't understand this so every game was just a cake walk. Rolling over noobs with lasers like a hot knife through butter.

    Then affinity points were stupid broken since you could get them for free, titanium hammers mega op, purity op due to titanium being abundant and purity techs being more optimal.

    Also the affinity unit nerf made it practically impossible to attack cities without lasers because units were never anything compared to cities which could easily have 60 - 70 armer vs gunners/battlesuits.

    Has any of this stuff been addressed?
     
  11. Azem.Ocram

    Azem.Ocram Chieftain

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    Rising Tide dramatically changed the game but the bugs average out the great new features to only moderate improvement. Fortunately, the game will be vastly, dramatically improved over base CivBE once the bugs have been patched.
     
  12. nimling

    nimling Chieftain

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    No, not as far as I know. Titanium mines are still way too good, such that Tectonic Scanner + Machinery is the only way to go. At the very least, engineering or power systems should be a prereq to get titanium hammers.

    I like strong cities though. The point is to make it really hard to attack cities without high-tier units or a lot of orbital support, otherwise the investment in leaf techs and defensive builds is tech not going towards orbitals or hammers going towards economy and science stuff. There is still lots of space to fight early wars before those defensive builds get up, and command centers are fairly late, expensive, and on a dead-end tech for domination wins. Strong defensive cities also mean that pressure to expand is increased, rather than have to dislodge a city with 60-70 strength 100 turns, although BE's balance is broken towards REXing anyway due to trade routes being fundamentally flawed.

    What should be a thing, and I'm surprised this isn't addressed - earlier orbital units, like recon satellites. The recon sats would do nothing except provide line-of-sight, but crucially they block others from spamming their own orbitals. Making these available with Planetary Survey or Physics would make sense.

    I wonder if the game-breaking bug for cheap T2 units is a thing in MP.
     
  13. Azem.Ocram

    Azem.Ocram Chieftain

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    I really want Recon Sats as well. Currently, whenever I want to reveal parts of a map or provide line-of-sight, I launch TacNet Hubs. If I don't find the revealed tiles interesting, I delete my TacNet Hubs the next turn. Launching them pisses off nearby sponsors even if the cities were invisible before and I delete my sats the next turn.
     
  14. Miravlix

    Miravlix Chieftain

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    The low aquatic city defense is a myth.

    Deepwater AI controled 150 defense.

    My own cap 60-70. My own Aquatic Cities 100+

    1: Research and build city defense stuff. (Aquatic Cities get more)
    2: Get Diplo deal that raise defense (I think Aquatic cities get more).
    3: Profit from very powerful and mobile aquatic cities.
     
  15. aguliondew

    aguliondew Chieftain

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    Aquatic cities can have more defense than a land city, that's after you are well into late game. Early-Mid game, 6 affinity patrol boat are better than most of the defensive you will have. Getting more than one defensive tech tends to be wasteful if you are not in constant wars.

    Aquatic cities are more valuable than land cities. You get more cultural, water refinery effects all tiles, and you can move whenever you need more space.
     
  16. Willburn

    Willburn Chieftain

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    That there are some powerful tactics in BERT does not mean the game is unbalanced in MP. This is because every human is able to implement any given tactic. And frankly while trade is very strong there are some other very nice tactics I have discovered recently that even matches the speed of polystralia. (Granted they are probably getting a nerf.)
     
  17. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Chieftain

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    That does not mean the MP is well balanced. I would not be surprised if there were only one or two viable MP strats (i'd be shocked if going tall was even remotely viable) and the rest are just false choices that lead to insta loss.
     
  18. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    When I feel like I am sick of 1UPT civ game. I boot up Civ4, SMAC or GalCiv II and have a really good times. :)

    In-topic : I think it become hard to separate optimal strategy from OP-ed strategy. It is now spread to several mechanics and players always have different opinions about it. I.e. whether current health/city system need to be fixed.

    Only problem I can think of solution is faction's balance, I wish all faction is pitted against each other in effort to find who's OP or UP, so that no one are particularly OP after balance (SMAC done that). But I doubt Beyond Earth and Rising Tides AI will be able to exploit absurd OP'ness of, say, Daoming or Hutama. If it is possible, there should be an effort to play large number of Rising Tides multiplayer game to find and fine-tune faction's flaw.
     
  19. Callonia

    Callonia Chieftain

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    It has improved but AI still don't care about affinities.

    A purity ai will peacefully sit and do nothing while supremacy AI builds the gate to "liberate" the humans of Earth.

    I feel like i'm the only person on new world that actually cares about affinities. I'm friends with other affinities until they try to mind flower, or contact or exodus etc. Then I scramble to stop them. Can't have them using resources of Earth to defeat me, ya know xD
     
  20. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

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    True for Civ5, and true for CivBE.

    It will probably be true for Civ6 as well. Frankly, it's like the Civ formula is at the very edge (or past it) of what game-grade AI can handle and still maintain quick turn processing.
     

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