Hate Speech Crash and Burn?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Zardnaar, Jul 1, 2021.

  1. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    So speaking hypothetically, what if she loses the next election (I'd call it unlikely, but bear with me), and there's a vaguely right to further-right coalition, who go ahead and go scorched earth anyhow? I'm interested because this is - to me - just as likely a hypothetical as anything else, but it rarely seems to get considered.
     
  2. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    How scorched earth are we talking about?

    They've already indicated they'll repeal the law both right wing parties.

    They're busy scorched earthing themselves at had lurch to the right and a leader driving their own ratings down.

    I kind of expect them to win 2026. Jacindas popular enough to survive an earthquake wrecking the capital. St worst she might have to coalition with the Greens in 2023.

    Short of her being a pedo or paid agent of China/USA or something like that.
     
  3. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Deity

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    Hey I wonder what the suicide and self harm rates are for groups that have historically been the targets of hate speech, as well as the rates of mental illness and other forms of discrimination.

    You're old enough to remember how it was when open racism and bigotry was more permissable, if not encouraged.

    I hope you haven't forgotten the impact that has had on its victims.
     
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  4. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    She's back!!! Where have you been?
     
  5. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    I mean, you were talking about trust. That's what I mean. The presumption is that acts like this by Jacinda's party (or any further left party or leader, hypothetically) would lead to escalations from the right. But what if right-wing parties escalated regardless? Isn't that a valid scenario?

    I'm interested in why acts from the left are always couched in responses from the right, but a) the reverse is rarely applied, and b) this ignores any independent action on behalf of the right. I'm just trying to explore that a bit.
     
  6. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    It's because the right has already indicated they will "retaliate" basically by releung it.

    The previous right wing government's didn't bother nor the left.

    Here it's often easier to get the right to pass stuff than the left eg gay marriage or starting the restitution process for the Maori.
     
  7. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    So isn't the pre-emptive claim of retaliation, in essence, political bullying? I'm not demeaning it beyond the label, it happens all the time. But it's a political tactic in of itself, right? What's to say they couldn't start doing this for other things?
     
  8. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Generally they don't they'll wait for the other side to do something first. The opposition has taken a hard lurch to the right though as they lost all their marginal seats and pale white males dominated the safe list seats.

    They normally let social stuff slide but repeal financial stuff eg tax hikes.

    Do you have conscience votes in your part of the world?
     
  9. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Apparently we have a version of it, yeah. Though generally you'll hear about MPs being whipped (the opposite of a free vote), that seems to be all the rage at the moment.
     
  10. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Ahhere it's kind of a safety valve. Basically a private members bill gets put up.

    If the parties don't care to much about something one way or another it goes to a conscience vote. Often social type issues.

    Traditionally Labour gets a lot of support from Polynesians and Maori so if they try to pass something like gay marriage they don't have the votes for it. Traditionally the opposition votes against everything.

    If it's a private members bill and is a conscious vote the Maps can vote how they like.

    The right traditionally is an alliance between farmers and urban socially liberal neocons. Farmers often don't care what the city folk get up to they want tax breaks and less regulation.

    Helen Clark (Labour) passed civil unions, National passed gay marriage. The right wing leader has to present themselves right of center social policy doesn't cost money.

    Currently they've been nibbling on Trump type politics and support collapsed hence Jacindas absolute majority. They were pro opening the country up "for the economy".

    Strangely enough the economy actually does better under Labour. Such as right now.
     
  11. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Deity

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    Moving. I'm out of America.
     
  12. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    Lol good lord. Its encouraged now. Every butthole has its flavor.

    But yes, people hurt themselves and lives become not worth living. Oh my, the horror. Triple the incarceration of assault. What other cruelties can we stack on the altar of our self worth?

    Nice to see you, too.
     
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  13. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    All this criticism and I still don't see you actually trying on a solution, Farm Boy. It's easy to snipe. It's harder to actually reckon with the problems at hand that lead to these hypothetical "other cruelties stacked on the altar of our self worth", as you put it.
     
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  14. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    No need to be a dick about it.
     
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  15. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    The problem that is being responded to in the Christchurch attacks. I do not see how this is a solution, and it seems like Jacinda Ardern does not either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
  16. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Sorry for not being clear - I was talking more generally. There are two tracks here and unhelpfully I've been participating in both, hah.
     
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  17. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    I rather don't think I am. There are bigots everywhere, for one. Life wrecks everybody, for two, sooner or later. Grotesque state punishments for uttering mean heresies will not help. Cruel laws with good intentions will be wielded most expertly by the cruel.

    You want a concrete suggestion, right Gorbles? Don't pass stupid crap like this. What's the counter-request, suggesting an alternative "for fixing hate?" I don't have one right now. That doesn't make this stupid idea any less hate filled on its own.
     
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  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    But clearly, since the world is such an inescapably horrible place, they will not hurt, either.
     
  19. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    A lot of people think that, yes. It's a pretty legit take.
     
  20. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Speaking of victims. What if we look at the statistics of actual victims? The dead and the sick. The suicidal and the despaired. In your country. Suicide and drug use shot up in the "forgotten midlands", or in the urban liberal lands? Answer: it rose the most among the populations that mostly voted for Trump. That is also where life expectancy has fallen the most. And it has been happening at least since the "great financial crisis".

    The answer they've had to their despair was hate speech directed against them. The rednecks. The unworthy. The deplorables. Those were the mildest attacks. For some (it's on the record here in the forum) they were all "murderers", beasts. Is that not hate speech? But that is approved hate speech perhaps? It's on the eye of the beholder, apparently.

    It's political speech. And you either tolerate it all and deal with it, or you build a police state where those who manage to hold power openly repress those who do not, with such positions to be determined. You already have that problem to a degree. Don't help make it worse.
     

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