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[BTS] Have to be brutally honest

Phoenix Master

Jun 1, 2019
I failed yet again. I was playing as Washington of America on a continents standard-sized map on noble difficulty. Unfortunately, my immediate neighbor to the north was Gilgamesh of Sumeria whose leader traits are creative and protective. I want to start a new game as either Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia or Cyrus of Persia. I kind of think I tend to overdevelop my early cities too much when I should be expanding with new cities. With my early cities, I have been focusing on food first then production and commerce later. This probably sounds stupid, but I don't know how to upload pics of my current game to this website. Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
What I do is take a screenshot during game with the "Print Screen" button and simply attach them to the forum with "Attach files" which in the bottom left when writing a message. I'm sure there are other ways, but that is the simplest. You can attach a savegame in the same way.

Expand to 3-4 cities asap, focus on food sounds good.
Maybe you can upload your game file as well? It is located in your Documents\My Games\beyond the sword\Saves\single
If you want to learn about the game you need to engage more with the people posting here. From your post history you usually do a one line post and stop responding.

You can upload the saves.

Generally your first build should be a worker. Techs to improve nearby food resources like Corn/wheat or pigs. Grow the city to size 3/4 while building a warrior. At which point switch to a settler.

Second city on a strong start can be 2800bc give or take 2-3 turns. I usually try to have 3-4 cities by 2000bc. Don't be afraid to get bronze working early on after key food techs are researched.

Noble AI get second city around 2000-2200bc. So you could easily have 4 cities before they have 2.

City placement is normally 2-4 tiles apart. 2 tiles can help work cottages for capital. You should always aim to have food in inner ring of city.

Do look at Fippy's guide at how to play Civ 4 games. You won't improve your game unless you embrace the community.

Civ 4 can be a fun game but is more complex than the likes of Civ 5/6. You have to understand how whipping and other features work.
Second city on a strong start can be 2800bc give or take 2-3 turns.

I struggle with getting my first city out early and I wonder what I am doing wrong. 2800 BC is Turn 30 (standard). In my previous 5 games I've founded my first city on T41, T42, T43, T40, T38.

Generally I try to do exactly what you said, worker first, food techs, grow to size 3 or 4 then switch to settler. But it takes 15 turns to get a worker and ~5 turns to improve the first food resource. That's 15 turns of no growth, 5 turns of growth on unimproved tiles, and only 10 turns to get to size 3 or 4 AND build the settler.

I play on Emperor (which is the same cost as Noble? Unless the food box is slower to fill).
I think past T40 is slow for 2nd city and should not be very common. I very rarely grow to size 4 before starting a settler, simply because your capital doesn't have 4 tiles worth working (yet).
I'm usually looking to chop or chop + whip first settler. Sometimes it makes sense to slow build it if you don't have 3-4 good tiles and can still get a settler by turn 35 by slow building most of the way.
Thanks everyone for the comments. Here's one example (T38 second city with an IMP leader).

Julius Caesar, worker in 15, Ag -> AH. On T23 Rome has just grown to size 2 and worker is 1 turn from finishing cows. Could start settler at that point, which would finish T33 (and found a city, 5N1W, on T35). In the actual game I grew to size 3 which let me work the gems.

Is that a reasonable plan given the map? Should I forget about AH and just concentrate on farming the wheat, mining the gems, and chopping the settler at size 2, on say T29-30?



  • JC BC-3080.CivBeyondSwordSave
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I agree with delaying AH a bit to get a faster settler. Those chops are worth 30h with IMP leader so I want to utilize that asap. Also gems speed up AH
Also with so many plains tiles I suspect ivory might be close by and hunting speeds up AH if you delay.
It's a bit special because you have gems, a tile with weak :food:/:hammers:-output but one that you want to work all the time. Either settler size 2 working wheat+gems (delay AH) or do as you did and grow to 3 even if it delays your expansion a bit.
I think one more advantage for BW before AH here is that after improving the cow and gems, without BW or a new city, the worker doesn't have much to do for a while (could mine more hills but that would not have much impact).
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