Have you ever changed your mind because of a debate/discussion here?

[Plains-Cow]

Has anyone actually ever changed their mind on a topic based on the debates/discussions here? If so, what was the topic, and what made you change your opinion? After reading a lot of posts over the years, it seems like everyone has pretty predictable takes on both new and old topics and styles of presenting said takes. I don't recall ever seeing any amount of evidence, persuasion, group pressure, teasing, memes, etc. changing the takes of posters. If you're one of the rare ones, I'd like to hear about it.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Yes. There are many smart people here who have interesting ideas that are worth hearing.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Yes. There are many smart people here who have interesting ideas that are worth hearing.

What did you change your mind about, and what persuaded you?

 

[amadeus]

Maybe? I’ve got such a rotgut short-term memory that I can’t remember.

 

[Birdjaguar]

What did you change your mind about, and what persuaded you?

Over the past 20 years, likely lots of things. Connections to a diverse group of smart people works its magic slowly over time.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Over the past 20 years, likely lots of things. Connections to a diverse group of smart people works its magic slowly over time.

What's the most notable swap in ideas you've experienced? So it was the slow-boil effect that changed you? I suppose that it makes sense considering everyone influences everyone subtly over time, even when they're not trying to do any influencing.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I'm sure others will pop to mind, but off the top of my head.

There were a small group of communist posters very active at one time. I had just placed communism further to the left on the right/left spectrum, but on some issue, a particular communist made me realize that their take was just altogether different, i.e. didn't fit on that spectrum at all. They regarded left and right as both equally misguided, or both operating out of a mistaken shared starting premise.

Narz forced me to concede that the melodic dimension of rap cannot be discounted in one's overall assessment of the genre.

I recently made an extensive post about the source of Trump's appeal that tried to operate from a neutral, above-it-all perspective. Farm Boy labeled it the perspective of the college educated class and I had to realize that my position was not "neutral" at all, but just a position.

I once boldly proclaimed that there were no good lines in the sequel trilogy of the Star Wars franchise, but Sommer forced me to concede that "Impressive. Every word in that sentence is wrong" is a good line.

I thought liberal/conservative was the basic political split in every country. PPQ Purple claims that it's not in their country; won't elaborate because they don't want to identify their country, so I'm not altogether convinced. But neither do I have any special reason to doubt, so I've put my premise under suspension.

My opinion on skibidis (proper plural?) went from utter ignorance of their very existence to WTH?

(I just learned that if you post WTH, the autocensor will change it to wth. WTH? Isn't the whole point of the abbreviation WTH already to not say the offensive word? What horsehocky!)

 

[Estebonrober]

Yes. But not in some epiphany moment, but gradually over time along with continued reading once leaving college.

If one is so ideologically locked in as to never be swayed than I would consider that an immoral and human failing.

 

[thetrooper]

Sure. Don’t remember all the details though. I had a lot of prejudice towards all the new genders and so on and so forth but reading some threads on here carefully made me realize how much suffering there is out there. Changed my mind completely.

 

[Smellincoffee]

I believe a person has to have a personal connection to the person proposing counter arguments for those arguments to have any resonance whatsoever --- unless it's an issue the person doesn't really care about. It's not the way it should be, it's just the way our ape brains are. I can vividly remember the first time my opinion changed because of an argument, and it was with someone I was friends with on AIM. (We were discussing the merits of math education circa 2002.) Can't remember any instances of changing my mind on political issues because of CFC despite being here for 20+ years and having moved back and across the political spectrum several times since.

 

[Farm Boy]

The most effective nudges move who you are before you're forced to update your internal self-monolog, I think?

"Changing your mind" is hard, it involves attempting to undo a past part of you. We just need to influence who you will choose to be. That'll be all you.

 

[Arwon]

Plenty of times I've thought someone was worth engaging with and then changed my mind about that

 

[GenMarshall]

On this board? No, I end up digging in my heals when I'm browbeatened, insulted, and/or talked down to as if I'm an idiotic "chud". I know lefties on this board don't take me seriously and dismiss my arguments as "language of the chuds, lol" because I still operate with a dictionary set I had from the ideology I disavowed and it gets frustrating when they don't understand where I am coming from. So I end up being more amicable towards lefty content creators like Xanderhal, whom gotten themselves out of the alt-right pipeline rather than the lefties of CFC. I actually have more sympathies for ex-cult members (Whom left on their own accord and/or have been excommunicated by their former cult) and ex-convicts whom paid their debt to society and vows to change for the better, because polite society tends to treat them like dog poop.

I know some leftist is going to chirp in and make some smart ass comment just to "PWN the chud". I've lurked in r/ReQovery (It's the only safe space I've found that's remotely close for my needs that's active) and they actively welcome ex-Qanon individuals and I even recall on an older rulset on r/Quilt_Headquarters (It's a subreddit dedicated to documenting, critiquing Qanon) that states "If a former or doubting Q follower posts on this subreddit, be kind and welcoming to them. It takes a lot of courage to abandon a belief system like the Qult, and even more to admit it to people who are hostile towards the belief system." . David Packman have said it best "It's easy to criticize, listen closely to what she is saying, and part of being able to regret it is feeling like the enviornment will allow you regret it. And this comes to the element of deprograming of cult members where we say 'It has to be a welcoming enviornment', it has to be an enviornment in which they feel that it is ok where they are willing to say 'I regret it, I did the wrong thing'. Because if you don't provide that space you don't even get what they describes as step one, which is the regret". I'd be nice to be acknowledged when I made a correct conclusion rather than being chided "you wern't paying attention", snarkly get "wow its almost like those two events were completely different!", or how I should feel shameful for once holding the beliefs I renounced.

I've been told, from someone I once considered a friend, that my renunciation of my embrace of anti-SJW rhetoric is "utterly insincere" because It doesn't take 2+ years to transition away from a political ideology. I can say that statement is utter bullpatties becaue it takes time to move to a different political position, even after going cold turkey not watching anti-woke content and have the behaviors unlearned.

 

[danjuno]

On this board? No, I end up digging in my heals when I'm browbeatened, insulted, and/or talked down to as if I'm an idiotic "chud". I know lefties on this board don't take me seriously and dismiss my arguments as "language of the chuds, lol" because I still operate with a dictionary set I had from the ideology I disavowed and it gets frustrating when they don't understand where I am coming from. So I end up being more amicable towards lefty content creators like Xanderhal, whom gotten themselves out of the alt-right pipeline rather than the lefties of CFC. I actually have more sympathies for ex-cult members (Whom left on their own accord and/or have been excommunicated by their former cult) and ex-convicts whom paid their debt to society and vows to change for the better, because polite society tends to treat them like dog poop.

I know some leftist is going to chirp in and make some smart ass comment just to "PWN the chud". I've lurked in r/ReQovery (It's the only safe space I've found that's remotely close for my needs that's active) and they actively welcome ex-Qanon individuals and I even recall on an older rulset on r/Quilt_Headquarters (It's a subreddit dedicated to documenting, critiquing Qanon) that states "If a former or doubting Q follower posts on this subreddit, be kind and welcoming to them. It takes a lot of courage to abandon a belief system like the Qult, and even more to admit it to people who are hostile towards the belief system." . David Packman have said it best "It's easy to criticize, listen closely to what she is saying, and part of being able to regret it is feeling like the enviornment will allow you regret it. And this comes to the element of deprograming of cult members where we say 'It has to be a welcoming enviornment', it has to be an enviornment in which they feel that it is ok where they are willing to say 'I regret it, I did the wrong thing'. Because if you don't provide that space you don't even get what they describes as step one, which is the regret". I'd be nice to be acknowledged when I made a correct conclusion rather than being chided "you wern't paying attention", snarkly get "wow its almost like those two events were completely different!", or how I should feel shameful for once holding the beliefs I renounced.

I've been told, from someone I once considered a friend, that my renunciation of my embrace of anti-SJW rhetoric is "utterly insincere" because It doesn't take 2+ years to transition away from a political ideology. I can say that statement is utter bullpatties becaue it takes time to move to a different political position, even after going cold turkey not watching anti-woke content and have the behaviors unlearned.

Funnily enough, arguing with @Lexicus about feminism did help me break out of the anti-SJW narrative. Admittedly it wasn't an overnight process, but that was definitely a turning point I remember clearly.

 

[Synobun]

I've been told, from someone I once considered a friend, that my renunciation of my embrace of anti-SJW rhetoric is "utterly insincere" because It doesn't take 2+ years to transition away from a political ideology. I can say that statement is utter bullpatties becaue it takes time to move to a different political position, even after going cold turkey not watching anti-woke content and have the behaviors unlearned.

This is likely not the right thread for a discussion about this, and I suspect it may be purged due to how personal it is, but I would personally argue that you're seen as insincere since you still identify with the ideology you claim to have left. You actively identify as "former anti-SJW," and identifying as a former anything tends to not carry significance unless that person is serving a corrective role: e.g., a former Jehovah's Witness that exposes how the cult works and tries to integrate other former JWs, or potential former JWs, into common society.

Beyond that, here on CFC, you most often publicly agree with the people who hold the views you say you've left behind. Once this happens, yes, people start to insult you. You wear this ideology as a badge despite claiming to no longer be a believer in it. In discussions, you continue to uphold the ideology. When reading other discussions, you agree almost exclusively with people who believe in the ideology. It is very rare that you put forward a position that shows you are anything except the ideology. It is possible you believe something better now, but at least publicly, you don't express this beyond insisting that you've left it all behind. When your views get interrogated or you're given an opportunity to tell us what your beliefs are, you don't tend to stray very far from what you claim isn't you anymore.

I don't agree with your former friend about the time it takes to deprogram prejudice and bias, that gut reaction of rejection and disgust, since this is something anyone serious will say takes a lifetime. I still have moments where I pause and have a reaction from my upbringing, and my cut away from that cult was as clean and definite it could possibly be. But at least as a bystander who watches how you interact on here, if someone asked me what your belief system was, I'm not sure I'd have a different answer than the belief system you say you've rejected.

 

[Synobun]

To answer the thread's title: yes. Twice that I remember, at least, though it's likely been more.

The first that comes to mind is @Arwon schooling me about how solar and wind can outpace and be more cost effective than nuclear energy. It was really informative and cooled my belief that we should be primarily investing in nuclear as the big, immediate switch from fossil fuels.

The second was handling Nazi rhetoric. There was a thread years back about punching Nazis, and I was one of the people posting "We should peacefully debate with them instead." It was naive. There was a part of me that hoped others were like me, where it would be simple to reject the claim and then reject their occupying of space. This is not how it works for most others, and hearing them out and treating them like serious, good-faith discussions just lets them wiggle in further. I'm not nearly as radicalized on this front as others, but I'm less supportive of earnest, intellectual debate with people who ultimately have no interest in caring and are just trying to get the political authority to wipe people like me out. These people take advantage of decorum and civility, and I'm more of a believer now that their beliefs should be outright and rudely rejected. There is a time and a place for reaching out, and someone standing on the proverbial street corner shouting about their plan to eliminate the undesirables isn't it.

CFC planted the seed and time handled the rest. I would have gotten there regardless, but that thread is the first time I remember that approach being directly challenged.

 

[Farm Boy]

You never really leave your people. Which is why fights over parentage aren't just evil, they're futile. I guess unless you're up for killing folks.

 

[choxorn]

This is likely not the right thread for a discussion about this, and I suspect it may be purged due to how personal it is, but I would personally argue that you're seen as insincere since you still identify with the ideology you claim to have left. You actively identify as "former anti-SJW," and identifying as a former anything tends to not carry significance unless that person is serving a corrective role: e.g., a former Jehovah's Witness that exposes how the cult works and tries to integrate other former JWs, or potential former JWs, into common society.

Beyond that, here on CFC, you most often publicly agree with the people who hold the views you say you've left behind. Once this happens, yes, people start to insult you. You wear this ideology as a badge despite claiming to no longer be a believer in it. In discussions, you continue to uphold the ideology. When reading other discussions, you agree almost exclusively with people who believe in the ideology. It is very rare that you put forward a position that shows you are anything except the ideology. It is possible you believe something better now, but at least publicly, you don't express this beyond insisting that you've left it all behind. When your views get interrogated or you're given an opportunity to tell us what your beliefs are, you don't tend to stray very far from what you claim isn't you anymore.

I don't agree with your former friend about the time it takes to deprogram prejudice and bias, that gut reaction of rejection and disgust, since this is something anyone serious will say takes a lifetime. I still have moments where I pause and have a reaction from my upbringing, and my cut away from that cult was as clean and definite it could possibly be. But at least as a bystander who watches how you interact on here, if someone asked me what your belief system was, I'm not sure I'd have a different answer than the belief system you say you've rejected.

To add on to what Syn's saying, you really aren't being browbeated or insulted or "pwned" nearly as often as you say you are, but you tend to take people disagreeing with or criticizing you very personally and go all "woe is me" about it a lot. You've been getting better about it over time and I'll give you credit for that, but it's kind of hard to engage with you over this because any time someone tries to and gives you any kind of real push back on the things you say, you'll just complain about how you're being mistreated, insist that you're not like that, then disappear for a while but stay lurking in the threads and giving likes to all the obviously-much-more-conservative posters giving very "anti-SJW" type arguments.

Like, I'm glad if there's welcoming environments and safe spaces out there for you to deprogram yourself if it's genuinely helping you do that, but it's not really fair to expect every space you're in to be like that, to expect nobody to ever give you any kind of push back when you're showing signs of your old ways when these "chud" type of arguments and views are actively harmful to a lot of people.

 

[choxorn]

To answer the thread: I've certainly changed plenty over time- I've been a member here for around 60% of my life, after all- but it's kinda hard to point out specific instances of it, or tell when the changes were because of CFC or just because of me growing up over time. I can think of plenty of times when I just learned something new about something I previously knew very little about (both on topics that do matter, like historical events or modern hot-button political topics, or on topics that really don't, like video game strategies or something), but it's harder to think of instances where I changed my mind about something I was already knowledgeable and opinionated on because of any one debate or discussion. Probably many debates or discussions over time, here and elsewhere, have changed my mind somewhat but again, kinda hard to point to specifics there.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Apart from realizing that with some it is much better to use the ignore button than to do them the favor of wasting a second of my time reading their posts, no, I have not changed my mind many times here. As far as I can remember, I have realized that I was wrong on some physics question after reading a post by this German (I think) poster who is a physicist, whose name I don't remember now.