I am sure I have changed my mind on a few things over the years, but the only ones I could remember are this, and the name is uppi IIRC.
Have you ever changed your mind because of a debate/discussion here?
- Thread starter Plains-Cow
- Start date
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Nope, but then again i doubt I've convinced anyone wrt trans people and our issues
None the less you have provided many with a pov they have not experienced.
Canadian Bluebeer
Prince
Changed it? Not yet.
Lost it? Well... that happened ages ago.
Lost it? Well... that happened ages ago.
Y'know, I'm just going to be blunt. There are some people here who have definitely changed our minds and we've learned from the numerous people here who have transitioned and told their life stories. Thanks to their willingness to be so open, we've learned a lot.
Except in your case. I've tried and tried and tried to have positive conversations, and all I or anyone else gets is a slap in the face. It's like "sure, but what have you done for me in the last 5 minutes? NOTHING, so you're just like everyone else" etc., etc., etc.
It gets really tiresome to be constantly told that no matter what we say or do either here or in offline life, it's never enough in your view. So sorry that I can't wave a magic wand and make your politicians find any empathy or willingness to treat you like equal human beings. That's beyond my ability, as I don't have voting rights in your country.
Constantly snapping and sniping at people who want to understand and help is a great way to LOSE people who would otherwise be happy to advocate for you and vote for candidates who want to help you and put in LGBT-friendly legislation.
Kinda like how I've tried to advocate for and vote responsibly to help the indigenous people in my country catch a break. And then it's "sure, but what have you done for me in the last 5 minutes? NOTHING, you <censored> colonist!"
At some point someone is going to cross a line that's going to make me throw up my hands and say to hell with it all, I've got my own demographic to worry about, and I don't see them advocating for that one.
(Just to be clear, I'm not pitching a fit at all the LGBT residents of OT, just those who are a bit unappreciative of those of us who really do try to understand and help and are rebuffed.)
Synobun
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2006
- Messages
- 24,868
If your support is lost because someone was a little mean to you, then it wasn't really support to begin with. Which, funnily enough, is one of the things Cloud keeps talking about here, about how trans people have to perform to some idyllic standard just to maybe get blessed with a small percentage of humanity and the rights that come with it. She's rude to people who challenge her right to exist and thrive. Your "positive conversation" is probably not seen as such by someone who is surrounded by people debating her existence.
This is actually something you should understand, since you are rude to people who debate your disability and health. You're surrounded by people who nitpick your behaviour and who constantly have an opinion about your health and how it affects you, and naturally you have no patience for it. Could it not be that a trans woman might be under similar pressure? What would your response be if someone told you that they would support disability rights, if only you were just a little bit nicer? What would your response be if someone said something that gets used against you constantly, and then they frame it like they're "just having a conversation"?
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
- Messages
- 14,875
Well i thought forums are relaxed now, since all the peoples looking for overly serious discussions etc moved on to discord, X and what not.
I was wrong there..so my mind changed on that.
Will never step into certain topics here again.
On actually fun topics this place is great and worth staying with.
I was wrong there..so my mind changed on that.
Will never step into certain topics here again.
On actually fun topics this place is great and worth staying with.
Synobun, I'm not talking about a "little mean" once. I'm talking about consistently over years.
I've never challenged any LGBT person's right to exist and thrive, and I object to getting lumped in with those who do. I have consistently defended that right to exist and thrive, and guess who keeps throwing it back in my face? As I said, it gets tiresome. At some point I just won't bother anymore, at least on the forum. I'll stay out of those conversations.
As for disability rights... I don't know how it is in BC, but in Alberta the politicians count on the fact that it's pretty damn hard to impossible for some of us to go out and join the protests. That way they smugly say, "See, they're not protesting, so they must not care."
As I've said numerous times before, it is possible to politically walk and chew gum at the same time. I'm capable of advocating for more than one group of people at the same time. I just object to being lumped in with the other side who doesn't care. And that's something you should understand, if you'd re-read my previous post. You are confusing me with the LGBT-unfriendly people here, and that's not going to go anywhere productive.
EDIT: I'm outta here. Any more disagreements with me can be done via PM.
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Cloud in no way singled out any specific poster. Nor did she lump you in with any "side".
I don't think it's a good idea to take the thread down a route of being "blunt" and singling posters out. A couple of folks have expressed a general frustration. Why not let them?
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
spot on 
.It's gotten to the point where, even outside of this board, I'm afraid of asking any trans person about the issues they face and learn more about them to be on the receiving end of "It's not my job to educate you, bigot", "Go Google it yourself", or "my right are not up for debate". Essentially, having my face bitten off asking a question in good faith to get a better understanding. I mean, who would would you rather have the answers to the questions a person have be answered by: A trans person themselves or an alt-righter?
I feel the same way Valka, with your magical wand analogy. I'm a machinist who's a gamer, not a mage (I only play one in World of Warcraft). Voting Democrat? It's not enough for the activist who feels it's not enough. Again, I'm not a mage or a shadow priest and I can't twist my hands to cast a spell to make Democratic politicians care about LGBT issues. Contrary to what many on the left would say, I have little to no power. My only power that I have is at the ballot box and saying something and reporting abusive behaviors in online games (There is a report feature in games like Overwatch and World of Warcraft). I have no control over what happens at a CoD lobby because I don't play any of the CoD multiplayer games.
I know I've been regularly been told how people walk around eggshells when I snap and snipe at people. Being on the receiving end, I can tell you it's not a fun experience to be on the receiving end. With people like Cloud, I feel as though I have to walk around eggshells around her and end up keeping my distance because I don't want my face ripped off by asking an innocent good faith question or making an unintentional faux pas that triggers her. It's bad enough that I'm dealing with a moral injury, I don't need anymore guilt or shame that would spiral me into another depression and end up being vulnerable for another cult to swindle me into. I'm lucky that the rabbit hole I fell in didin't end up in a death cult like Heaven's Gate or Jonestown.
There's a phrase, that even I should take up, "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar". It does not mean being nice to a neo-Nazi or a Klansman, they are already fargone. I get it that Cloud has been on the reciving end of abuse, but it doesn't grant her the right to lash out on other people who are, in good faith , trying to understand. I'd be like me lashing out at every leftists because of a bad experiance within IOT social spaces.
Um mate that's about all you do
That... doesn't really sound like getting your face bitten off, that sounds like someone who's gotten asked the same tired questions a million times, some by people legitimately trying to understand but some by people just trolling them, and they're sick of dealing with it so they've just decided to stop that line of questioning before it starts.
You do that all the time! You're literally doing it right now!
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
How in the flying crap am I doing that "literally doing it" right now?! Where in my response to Valka am I lashing out at leftists?
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
The most meaningful change of my mind I can remember was around 2015 or 2016. By then I used to minimize the risk Russia would attack its neighbours, and it's after talking on internet forums with Eastern Europeans that I realized the risk was actually real.
Estebonrober
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
- Messages
- 6,019
I did this too... lol
Lexicus has shared some link to a thing explaining how European prejudiced moved from tribes of Israel to color of skin... I recall that being enlightening and lead me to more reading...
I'm noticing a not absolute trend of answers and persuasions tho.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
samson's graphs usually make me go "oh, so this is what it's like", i feel. i'm often surprised and just go by it.
i also used to be, like, an anti-feminist atheisttubeguy. i like to think this forum is a big part of why i woke up.
i also used to be, like, an anti-feminist atheisttubeguy. i like to think this forum is a big part of why i woke up.
Snowygerry
Deity
I've been convinced that settling on a plains hill is a good idea 
PhroX
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,767
I can't remember ever going into a thread with one view and coming out of it with the complete opposite (at least when it come to things like politics, beliefs etc. - I've had my mind changed on good strategies in Civ, but that's not hard, because I'm not that good a player), but there's definitely been times when what I've read on here has contributed to an evolution of my opinions. Probably the one that stands out the most are Plotinus' old Ask a Theologian threads which were a significant influence in me moving from a Dawkins-esque antitheist to having a much more relaxed view on religion.
