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Have you ever seen a succcesful Montazuma ?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Magean, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Magean

    Magean Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
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    Hi,

    In every one of my games since vanilla till BNW, when Monty shows up, he miserably fails. Yes, he's a bully. Yes, starting next to him may be crippling because you get to sacrifice too much hammers for archers. And yes, he sometimes tears down one of his neighbours.

    That said, on the long run - and even on the middle run - what does he achieve ? Usually nothing. Other warmongers, like Bismarck or Alexander, are often runaways in my games (emperor difficulty most of the time). But Monty falls behind in tech and ends up as one of the gimps of the game, doomed to be conquered. OK, for once the game is quite realistic.

    Still, I'm puzzled at how lame this psycho is.
     
  2. neo_one

    neo_one Chieftain

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    I also never saw a successful one. This is counting the games where I play as him
     
  3. direblade99

    direblade99 Warlord

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    I've seen him do pretty well in quite a lot of my games, he's rarely top of the pack but he's up there
     
  4. GoStu

    GoStu King

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    I bolded the part I think most worth discussing here. The two you mentioned aren't pure warmongers in my experience, they're something much more dangerous. Alexander is absolutely a Diplomacy civ and he gets propped up all game long by city-states. Bismark I see going wide a lot, and does really well with the Hanse. The important take-away from this is that they do something else quite well, and aren't afraid to mix it up and get their hands dirty.

    The pure warmongers seldom make a huge impact except on smallish maps, where they actually stand a chance of wiping everyone out. Playing on a four-player pangea map is where someone like Monty is very, very scary.
     
  5. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    I haven't seen a successful monty really. I have seen him adopt freedom once but unfortunately he didn't survive.
     
  6. Loucypher

    Loucypher King

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    Saw him actually runaway a game I had a lil bit ago. He was on a continent that was attached to mine by a 1-tile-city state (so not easy to explore), and when I found him in early medieval, he had waged a succesful war on Bismarck, having taken a few of his cities including one holding Cerro de Potosi, and he had also taken Antwerp from Venice's hands. From that point on, he had became the science leader and had a good culture output as well. He kept relatively calm from that point on as well, seemingly statisfied with his new conquests. I ended up winning a science victory though, but it was kind of surprising since, indeed, he usually fails.
     
  7. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    AIs seems to raise until their UU, UB or UA and stagnate after. Monty is that kind of AI.
     
  8. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    In one of my games I've seen Monty be pretty successful. He picked Autocracy and managed to capture 5 of Hiawatha's cities including his capital that had notre dame, porcelain tower, Eiffel tower and the Uffizi. But I doubt I'll ever see that again! :lol:
     
  9. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    I've rarely seen him do ok, and never able to run-away either. I blame it on 2 things, Monty's jungle bias and that often chooses Piety or Honor which are both dreadful policy trees to open with, especially with a heavy jungle start because at least Tradition and Liberty actually give you things for free which help your early expansion.
     
  10. njmfff

    njmfff Prince

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    I've never considered Alex warmonger. He can be aggressive, but not crazy aggressive like some other guys... but if he pops up in my games, he is always no.1 priority since he will snowball in a long run unless crippled in early stages (either by conquest, or forcing him to go to constant war with other civs)

    Monthy... dunno, he can do well sometimes, but is usually wiped out by more advanced civs that get strong in mid game, and for some reason, I've rarely seen him spam dozens of cities in BNW? :( Because he is fairly aggressive in early game, he's usually public enemy no.1 so everyone gang on him, then he either gets wiped out or hurt badly to the point that he's "just there" on the map, but not doing anything useful.

    He's usually doing better then Isabella and Askia tho. :rolleyes: Has anyone EVER seen Askia doing something useful except getting punched by everyone? :lol:

    Venice rarely ever moves from it's capital too. I can't take Enrico seriously when he declares war on me. :lol:
     
  11. Reus

    Reus Polar Bear

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    Nope...
    But he can be quite threatening early game though.
    He gave me a lot of trouble once.
     
  12. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    I've seen him run away twice.

    Once he just took over all his continent. By the time I got to Caravels, I just saw an entire big continent filled with Monty - that was in vanilla Civ 5.

    Second time was in BNW and there he also achieved greatness through successful wars. He was very smart about it, because he always left his enemies with at least one (beyond horrible) city. I was very confused when I saw him do so well, to be honest.
     
  13. AlcatrazUK

    AlcatrazUK Chieftain

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    Never seen AI do well with him but I've had success using him as a cultural leader. The initial culture plus strength against the barbarians added to the culture bonus from Honor gives you a great start.

    If you have plenty of encampments and a few cultural city states nearby, you can fill out a couple of culture trees in no time. Granted since BNW victory isn't as simple as completing trees, but the benefits you gain from completing trees early sets you up for a good game.

    Obviously if he does choose to get aggressive, a complete Honor tree makes his warmongering much more effective.
     
  14. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

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    Twice, both before BNW though. In one game he and Bismarck tag teamed an expansive Greece then Monty ate Sweden before relationships slid downhill with Bismarck. Then they had a long war that seemed to pretty much be a stalemate. Funny thing is Monty was able to conquer Egypt on his Eastern border while holding off Germany in the West. It was pretty cool to see. The other time I found him on another continent having wiped out Arabia and the Maya. He seemed to be stuck at a stalemate with Ethiopia.

    Seems to me that those early warmongers really fizzle out on lower difficulties after losing an early war but can be really dangerous higher up where they start with more resources, free promotions and troop bonuses.
     
  15. NameUndisclosed

    NameUndisclosed Chieftain

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    Most of the time I met Monty before BNW, he did pretty well for himself. He was never a runaway (well, once...), but he always did pretty well for himself in war and in science. But since BNW, I've never seen him do well. Many times I see him keep one size-12 city for 5500 years before getting crushed by a neighbor, and about half the games he's in he gets wiped out by all the other civs on his continent.
     
  16. DarthSheldonPhD

    DarthSheldonPhD Warlord

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    Monty's one of the few (only?) AI that favor a tall empire over a wide empire. Wide empires will crush tall empires IF AND ONLY IF happiness is completely disregarded as a factor, which it is for the AI as they have obscene happiness bonuses.
     
  17. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    I've seen Monty be a runaway before. He launched a spaceship two turns before me in my second ever deity game, and had a massive empire on the other continent in that game.
     
  18. omnishakira

    omnishakira Warlord

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    +1

    but he never runaway with the game like other warmongering AI can like gengis or attila
     
  19. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

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    I actually posted once about an amazing Monty AI in a multiplayer game:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=436999

    His capital was a culture marvel. It became the crown jewel of my game. I think that game was in was in Vanilla, though.

    In a recent game, I ran into a Monty late in the game who was doing fairly well for himself. He'd split a continent in half with England (it was almost two continents connected by a land bridge, really). After I'd conquered most of the idiots on my continent, his large population allowed him to be my only real competitor in science.

    But, yeah, since early warmongering is now unbelievably bad, Monty is even worse off than he used to be.
     
  20. direblade99

    direblade99 Warlord

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    Well he did once, he had a start with a lot of lakes and hills, and made more cities than usual. Things predictably went uphill for him there.
     

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