Have you personally achieved anything you feel pride in?

[Valka D'Ur]

Dr. Pepper is such a dishonorable drink. You are not worthy of the bat'leth!

Luckily I don't use Klingon weapons.

BTW, my co-admin on one of my forums has the username "Dr Pepper" and gets EXTREMELY peeved when people put a period after the "r" in "Dr".

 

[Synobun]

Luckily I don't use Klingon weapons.

BTW, my co-admin on one of my forums has the username "Dr Pepper" and gets EXTREMELY peeved when people put a period after the "r" in "Dr".

Sounds like Doctor Peppa needs to take a chill pill.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Sounds like Doctor Peppa needs to take a chill pill.

Considering some of the co-admins I've had over the years (had to not only demote, but permaban two of them from my Dune forum for incessant trolling and flaming of the members who like that awful nuDune crap; everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'm metaphorical death on forum staff who target other staff or regular members), this insistence on correct punctuation is really not anything to be concerned about.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Because that is what thinking does. That is its fundamental purpose.
I'm concerned with neither defense nor hostility. The key point of "reprogramming the reward center" comes in recognizing who programmed it in the first place. People do NOT want to do that. It takes an inordinate amount of boxing them in, and a clever debater like me will, and did, try to squirrel through every nook and cranny to get out of it. People find distractions; you'd be amazed at how many people I've seen develop intense fascinations with the weave of the carpet, and literally everyone at some point goes on a diatribe tangent about the room being too hot, or too cold. Others will just go along and be very convincing about having 'a new understanding' so that they can slip away.

Now you're directly contradicting yourself. Earlier this thread you said that it wasn't the realization/introspection that was the most important step, now you say that it is indeed recognizing that you yourself programmed it which is the key point.

Besides, I really, really still would like to hear how you, concretely, managed to change your reward center, because I would love to try it out, too. Clearly there have to be actual measures you take in your life to do so, no?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Now you're directly contradicting yourself. Earlier this thread you said that it wasn't the realization/introspection that was the most important step, now you say that it is indeed recognizing that you yourself programmed it which is the key point.

Besides, I really, really still would like to hear how you, concretely, managed to change your reward center, because I would love to try it out, too. Clearly there have to be actual measures you take in your life to do so, no?

I can't explain it any more concretely, partly because you already are thinking that it is contradictory. I'm not sure where you came up with what was or wasn't "the important step" other than from your own desire for a single sentence answer on the order of "I took the blue pill."

I guess the most concise answer I can give is that I got in a conversation like this one only live and in person, with someone who I scoffed at as a charlatan, false mystic, new age dingbat, clever student of pop psychology, and an assortment of other superlatives, but I hung in there and didn't walk away. That person patiently boxed me in over most of a week until at a critical moment I knew what they had been showing me all along. Which might be described as "hey, I programmed myself so I can do it again" or any number of wordings, but in fact the results have to be achieved, not put into words.

Before that conversation I was a white knuckling addict with a few years of clean time, had bounced off suicidal twice directly and seen it lurking on the horizons for most of my life, and had discovered the hollowness of success in a multitude of venues; employment, education, business, crime, personal combat, sexual escapades, parenting. In that conversation I quite literally discovered that it was possible to be a human being in a totally different way than I had done it all my life. Now I drink when I choose and have no inclination to drink to excess, I have no fear of death in its time but give no thought to it generally and know I won't be hurrying it along, and can draw great joy from successfully taking out the garbage if that happens to be what I'm doing.

Over the past fifteen years I've been involved, repeatedly, in staging those conversations. In my turn I've been scoffed at as a charlatan, new age dingbat, cultist, and an assortment of other superlatives...and seen hundreds of people "go through that same keyhole" "have that moment of recognition" "catch what was being shown" "fill in preferred catchy but inadequate phrase here." At some point I committed to making that conversation happen through the internet but I have not yet succeeded, as far as I know.

Did that answer your question?

 

[Narz]

Perhaps. Someday maybe I'll get a chance to demonstrate otherwise to your satisfaction.

I'm open to it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You know where to find me.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

>I can't explain it any more concretely, partly because you already are thinking that it is contradictory.

I would have loved for you to clear up this contradiction, as it is a very simple one: What was more important, the act of realizing that you are the author of your own programming or the fact that you managed to turn it around?

>I'm not sure where you came up with what was or wasn't "the important step" other than from your own desire for a single sentence answer on the order of "I took the blue pill."

I don't believe in single-sentence answers, in blue pills, or in red pills. I'm pill-free, "no pill no chill". I did not "come up" with it not being the important step, here is a quote:

>And I'm not sure that any amount of "deep introspection" would have gotten me anywhere without guidance. Too easy to just say "wow, after much introspection I was right all along, what a lucky guy I am." Identifying some aspect of my own program never really did much for me.

This is where my confusion stems from, I thought in that paragraph you were saying that it wasn't the realization that helped you, rather something else. But I think I get it now, after reading your latest post.

>In that conversation I quite literally discovered that it was possible to be a human being in a totally different way than I had done it all my life. Now I drink when I choose and have no inclination to drink to excess, I have no fear of death in its time but give no thought to it generally and know I won't be hurrying it along, and can draw great joy from successfully taking out the garbage if that happens to be what I'm doing.

So it was more this discovery that changed your life, rather than any active effort to turn around your reward center, correct? I hope I don't misrepresent what you wrote.

Just on a side note, I, too, can derive joy from taking out the garbage. My favorite however is vacuum cleaning. For some reason it makes me stupid happy to see the little dirt particles getting sucked up with ease.

>Over the past fifteen years I've been involved, repeatedly, in staging those conversations. In my turn I've been scoffed at as a charlatan, new age dingbat, cultist, and an assortment of other superlatives...and seen hundreds of people "go through that same keyhole" "have that moment of recognition" "catch what was being shown" "fill in preferred catchy but inadequate phrase here." At some point I committed to making that conversation happen through the internet but I have not yet succeeded, as far as I know.

I don't understand why people would refer to you as "new age" or "charlatan", since what you're saying does not seem at all far-out to me..

I'm still struggling hard to gather what the actual wisdom is that your friend bestowed upon you. If I'm reading this correctly it goes somewhat like this:

"You have programmed yourself - This in turn means you can reprogram yourself to like and appreciate anything you want to like, from taking out the trash to being a responsible person to recreational controlled substance abuse".

This helped you turn your life around and not fall into traps like instant gratification, chasing things you don't really want and so forth. Did I get it somewhat right?

>Did that answer your question?

I expected something different, but yes, it certainly did.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm still struggling hard to gather what the actual wisdom is that your friend bestowed upon you. If I'm reading this correctly it goes somewhat like this:

"You have programmed yourself - This in turn means you can reprogram yourself to like and appreciate anything you want to like, from taking out the trash to being a responsible person to recreational controlled substance abuse".

This helped you turn your life around and not fall into traps like instant gratification, chasing things you don't really want and so forth. Did I get it somewhat right?

Somewhat. The thing is that the catchy but inadequate phrase "you have reprogrammed yourself" is drawn from the context of how this conversation, right here in this thread, was going when I steered onto this course. Depending on where the conversation comes up the "actual wisdom" might be described as something totally different, because since it actually has to be experienced there really is no valid binding description.

That's how it sometimes gets branded as "new age dingbat" or other things, where you right now aren't seeing it that way. If someone takes the turn of the conversation onto this path and says "oh, you mean enlightenment" or "awakening" or "yeah that happened once when I was on dope" or "breakthrough in psycho-analytics," whatever their word for the experience that can't really be put into words seems to them to be I just go with it. But usually at some point their choice of words turns around into "words for something I don't believe in" and gets thrown in my face.

I don't mind, because I myself used all of that and more to try to derail the conversation when it was me on the other side. It's interesting that you say "that my friend bestowed on me" because we weren't friends. Looking back I am always astonished at the commitment shown because I was just another face in the crowd to her, really, and an unruly and difficult one at that. We certainly became friends after and had plenty of laughs about how I chose to go through the process, which she describes as 'kicking and screaming all the way.' But, ultimately, pretty much everyone I've seen through it can be described that way, to some extent.

I also wouldn't use the phrase "turned life around." That falls genuinely short of the quality of the disconnection. How I be human since is not "turned around from" before, it is unrelated.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

>Somewhat. The thing is that the catchy but inadequate phrase "you have reprogrammed yourself" is drawn from the context of how this conversation, right here in this thread, was going when I steered onto this course. Depending on where the conversation comes up the "actual wisdom" might be described as something totally different, because since it actually has to be experienced there really is no valid binding description.

Yes, that makes total sense to me. Of course every wisdom sounds conventional in the context of a forum based opinion-exchange anyway, unless your name is Kyriakos

>I don't mind, because I myself used all of that and more to try to derail the conversation when it was me on the other side. It's interesting that you say "that my friend bestowed on me" because we weren't friends. Looking back I am always astonished at the commitment shown because I was just another face in the crowd to her, really, and an unruly and difficult one at that. We certainly became friends after and had plenty of laughs about how I chose to go through the process, which she describes as 'kicking and screaming all the way.' But, ultimately, pretty much everyone I've seen through it can be described that way, to some extent.

Not only did I wrongly assume the person, who you did not call your friend, was a friend, I also assumed it was a male. What that says about me.. Let's not get into that It's odd really, only one person has ever really given me an epiphany, but even then it was not in the context of a conversation, rather just by the virtue of being a partner. All those epiphanies they come to me at the most unfitting moments, almost always when I'm alone and not thinking too hard.

>I also wouldn't use the phrase "turned life around." That falls genuinely short of the quality of the disconnection. How I be human since is not "turned around from" before, it is unrelated.

Yeah, poor choice of words on my part. Disconnected fits much better. Anyway, thank you for the conversation, I hope I could show you that the driving force never was to question/argue your point, rather just genuine interest.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm doing well. I'm happy and content. I don't feel threatened or insecure. Life is good and a big turn around. That's my accomplishment.

Unrelated:
I'm also a believer of self-programming though I've never thought of it in those terms.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Anyway, thank you for the conversation, I hope I could show you that the driving force never was to question/argue your point, rather just genuine interest.

You are welcome. Thanks for participating. Like I said, I committed to having this conversation via the internet and even though I haven't gotten it across to anyone yet every time is one step closer to it.

 

[Sommerswerd]

You are welcome. Thanks for participating. Like I said, I committed to having this conversation via the internet and even though I haven't gotten it across to anyone yet every time is one step closer to it.

I think I get it... I tell my wife this all the time, but just recently I connected that I learned it from a beloved Christmas movie when I was a wee little boy...

TL;DR - Happiness is whatever you want it to be.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Speaking of this movie... one of the classics... this little number drives it home. I want some cups like this... the sound they make is party magic...

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Happiness is not necessarily the same as "being rewarded", or "serotonin rush" though. The Greeks explained this very elegantly:

There is hedonae, which is short-term happiness, euphoria, fulfilling a goal, lust, hedonistic pleasure and everything in that vein.

Then there is eudaimonia, literally "being posessed by a good demon". It means essentially to live a happy life, to be content, "at peace" with one's existence, all around: Being happy.

Or, to put it into more psychological terms: Your reward center in your brain brings you short term pleasure, while being in a perpetual state of setting -> fulfilling goals, titled flow by psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, is closer to "happiness"

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yep both of those... say it with me... "I like life...life likes me... I make life a perpetual spree..."

Again... "Happiness is whatever you want it to be..."

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Yep both of those... say it with me... "I like life...life likes me... I make life a perpetual spree..."

Again... "Happiness is whatever you want it to be..."

I dont think its you who define happiness for yourself. Its something you act upon. I cant get happiness the way I want to but only by following certain paths innate to my nature. No, happiness isnt what I want it to be its a subject to variety of psychological laws in relation to my psychic nature.

 

[Sommerswerd]

So you say... again... happiness is whatever you want it to be... or in other words, happiness is "following certain paths innate to your nature, subject to variety of psychological laws in relation to your psychic nature", because that is what you've decided happiness is...

quod erat demonstratum

 

[yung.carl.jung]

happiness is "following certain paths innate to your nature"

is it though? because for me it is often times the opposite.

If I followed my "nature" I would be

Spoiler :

morbidly obese and stoned all the time

 

[Sommerswerd]

is it though? because for me it is often times the opposite.

If I followed my "nature" I would be

Spoiler :

morbidly obese and stoned all the time

Indeed... because... again... happiness is whatever you want it to be...