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Have you served in the military?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by RomeoTheCat, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Ah, this is great, by definition one of ye must be wrong and will never again be taken seriously on military matters
     
  2. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    It's semantics, and he is playing nice with coalition/UN BS.

    Probably as a result of the 2006 "battlefield command" crap.

    If anyone has had a foreign officer tell them to charge a machinegun nest and been legally obligated to do so, I'll concede. Setting the schedule for who does the laundry on the boat hardly counts.

    Squids piss me off, anyway (except seals).
     
  3. Mowque

    Mowque Hypermodernist

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    of course, Ecofarm, you don't support the UN? or any other international body?
     
  4. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Oh, so Admirals and Generals are not in command of their troops?

    Except the thousands of times they do everyday under all circumstances. What is the purpose of putting US warships in a CTF COMMANDED by a foreign flag officer if those ships don't have to follow his orders? The fact is we DID follow his orders because he was in command. Granted, the US could have withrawn its forces at any time, but that goes for foriegn forces under US command as well.

    And again, when we had that German navigator onboard ours went over to their ship, and he damn well followed every order given to him unless he thought it illegal, at which point he would refuse to follow it just like he would an illegal command from a US commander.

    I understand if you SGT was never foriegn, but on level above where you operated it is not uncommon to have foreign officers/NCOs fully integrated into US command stuctures and visa versa.
     
  5. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Please just post a new post, your ghost edits are not helpful.

    US forces are always commanded by US commanders in the sense that they can be withdrawn at will (it operates the same way when different US component commands make forces available to operational commands), but while placed under command foriegn command they are liable to follow that commanders orders.

    They are if US commanders day they are, which they do every day. Obviously at your level those orders probably wouldn't be directly to you, but they may go to your CO.

    Luckly there are officers and senior NCOs to make sure rabble such as yourself never get into that situation.
     
  6. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    That's right. Not direct command of those who die. "Operational control" is a political tool. You can play operational control BS all you want, but I know who's orders I must follow by law and it does not include foreigner's.

    Now, if my officer wants to tell me to do the same thing, oh well... I guess it's kiss-ass time. That's his call, not the foreign officer's. But you better get a US officer to tell a US soldier to charge, since you do not have a choice; it's not a legal order from a foreign officer, period.

    They are not in a US soldier's chain of command.
     
  7. McManus

    McManus Thinkers friend

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    I never said Finland won the war, even though truly, in the hearts and minds of anyone we did. We made concessions, yes, but still, if by your definition being forced by an enemy to give the chance for those concessions while having four times the manpower, over two hundred times the amount of tanks and over twentyfive times the airplanes is NOT having your ass handed to you, I would really want to know what, in your mind, qualifies.
     
  8. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    im considering joining either the marines or the army, my biggest issue preventing me is my parents.
     
  9. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    the Vietnam war. that was an example of a small, outgunned, outmanned nation beating off a superpower.
     
  10. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    China was small, outgunned and outmanned?
     
  11. raketooy

    raketooy professional Coke drinker

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    If, say Faroe Islands loses 2-3 against Brazil in football, they have not won. They have just lost by a lesser margin than everyone expected. The same happened in the wars between us and the USSR.
     
  12. Mowque

    Mowque Hypermodernist

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    the USSR is alot closer to Finland but actually the USSR wasn't good at this little wars.

    Que the Polish-Soviet war, 1920
     
  13. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    We have certainly had them say "company B move to this threat axis and advance," at which time due to the direct orders of a foreign officer soldiers equivalent to you did rack machine guns and go to business.

    And thanks for further invalidating your opinion on such matters. I realize it is cool for the rank and file to be oblivious to the nuances of what full military operations entail. Your complete lack of respect for the thousands of soldiers/sailors/airmen of all professions that make what you did possible just shows immaturity which of course is why you served in the capacity you did. That doesn't denigrate your service, but it puts it in context.

    I had no problem being the guy in charge of amongst other things the division that did the laundry because I am mature enough to realize that that is a vital function of a ship. As is making sure people eat. That the spare parts for the weapons systems are available. That the fuel was where it had to be when we needed it. None of them are particularly glamorous, but pound for pound each of those functions is far more important than a single grunt who, incidentally, can't do his job without me.

    Of course it goes further than that, because your fantasy that only combat arms faces danger is just that. Again, soldiers from all sorts of MOSs have been killed in Iraq/Afganistan while fullfilling their primary functions. There is no front line on a ship, a cruise missile kills us all the same.

    But since you feel the need to try and denigrate the service of your support brethren, let this Supply Officer point out that for all your paratrooper bravado you didn't do jack combat wise in 91, and spent the rest of your active time doing training and not actual work before you got out. While you were pretending to be a badass without ever proving it other people were ACTUALLY fixing helicopters, ACTUALLY doing your medical screenings, ACTUALLY making sure you got paid, ACTUALLY made sure that care package found you, ACTUALLY made sure that ammunition was manufactured to specs and delivered to you for play time. While doing this they probably got no love, in fact they probably got scorn. That didn’t stop them from delivering the best service possible to thankless little pissants like you regardless.

    Beyond that, I have no problem telling you right now that with two deployments to a warzone under my belt and a couple dozen armed boardings around 5th fleet, I have more ACTUAL combat arms work behind me than you on top of ACTUALLY doing my job the rest of the time. The difference between you and I however is that I don't think that makes me better than you or my service more deserving of respect.

    Don’t hate because we are better at our job than you are at yours.

    Operational control as you are applying it is everything above your sergant. A flag officer is as a matter of fact in command of you, and if a US commander decides to integrate a foreign officer into that chain that is his perogative.

    Thats how a chain of command works Eco, someone between you and the person giving the order tells you the exact same thing as the person giving the original order. Does your CAPT not give your orders because the SGT is who you actual hear it from?

    What can I tell you other than you are factually wrong. Obviously so. I have given you mutiple reserchable examples or how you are wrong.
     
  14. McManus

    McManus Thinkers friend

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    If losing 0-3 would have meant the total annexation of the Faroe Islands, it might be a different matter. I would say the comparison between sports and war is not a really good one. Brazils football team does not outman others by 4 to 1.
     
  15. Shekwan

    Shekwan Kim Chi Quaffing Celt

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    hehe

    10char
     
  16. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    A Brasseye fan I see
     
  17. Steph

    Steph Multi Many Tasks man Retired Moderator

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    @Ecofarm : Here you are the perfect example of why we can think Americans are arrogant bragging cow boys.

    @Patroklos : Here your give the opposite example.
     
  18. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Arrogant bragging cowgirls???

    Actually I think they both sound like hotheads, Patroklos sounds like he cant keep his temper and Ecofarm sounds like the type who would happily frag his CO
     
  19. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    Pfft. It only goes to show that officers are diplomats.
     
  20. Steph

    Steph Multi Many Tasks man Retired Moderator

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    No, it shows that officers do the thinking, and grunts the grunting.
     

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