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Haven't played in a while and am trying to get a grasp on prehistoric era once more.

Discussion in 'Strategy and tips' started by Ultimate_Waffle, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Ultimate_Waffle

    Ultimate_Waffle The soul devourer.

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    Last time I played was a couple of years ago and I got as far as the late medieval era, so I feel I still have an okay grasp of the game. But I am trying to get a more solid grasp on how to play well in the prehistoric age. I feel like it's a good idea to split it up into short-term goals, mid-term goals, and an ultimate goal.

    Ultimate goal, of course, is to reach Sedentary lifestyle and get access to those settlers. Before that, though, you should go after the mid-term goal of getting a second population point in your settlement (and even more if you can). Before that, I am unsure what's good to do. There is a huge emphasis on getting your city healthy so there's no food penalty and you can get on your way to reaching higher populations. Another emphasis on generating food to reach that goal even faster.

    I don't know, I feel like I know the basics of what I need to do; I just don't know how to go about it well. Any advice on what techs to go for and when? How do you decide where to settle when no resources are revealed yet? Are hunting units worth it? How do you go about crippling your neighbors effectively early on?
     
  2. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Tribalism is the tech that lets you settle new cities not Sedentary Lifestyle. It comes about half way through the Prehistoric Era.

    I would have thought capturing as many different types animals as possible was a fairly important first step and the hunting units are the best for that. The captured (subdued) animals are then used to build stuff in your city to boost the :food:, :hammers: and :science: of the city.
     
  3. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    You only do this if you want the game over quickly. Especially in the Preh Era. Else the Mod becomes Caveman2Classical or even Caveman2Ancient.

    The Prehistoric Era is for getting your City's core foundations setup and running, exploring the land and subduing animals around you, and prepping for the early expansion phase after Tribalism is achieved. Also to keep Barb intrusions under control, depending upon how many and which Barb related game set up Options you have enabled.

    Of course Game Speed, size of Map, type of map, number of AI, and game set up options will dictate the focus. Longer game speeds mean that your game will take longer to develop and you will spend much more time in the early stages of the game. But almost always will give you a decisive win point long before you ever reach the Mid to late game. (See 1st paragraph).
     
  4. Ultimate_Waffle

    Ultimate_Waffle The soul devourer.

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    Looks like you're right. And yes, hunting does seem very important. I never really focused on it because my hunters kept dying a couple years back. I kind of gave up and forgot about it for the most part. I'll give it a shot again though. Do you have any advice on how to get the most out of my hunting? Such as which promotions to take, what number of hunters is good to have, etc?

    @JosEPh_II

    Starting out, what do you focus on building? It seems to me whatever increases health is most important first. Each unhealthiness is -1 food, so you indirectly get more food and more healthiness and sometimes minus however much disease all at once with healthy buildings. Then I focus on the cheap +1 food buildings. But at some point, I start to wonder; when should I build hammer generating buildings instead of food? I have a dilemma where I don't know if I should rush towards population 2 faster or to get better production.
     
  5. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    You have to do both, health/food/Disease reduction and production/Crime reduction. Like stacking bricks for a wall or weaving a tapestry. Keep an eye on the Education giving buildings too. As going negative in education begins to reduce :health::hammers::food::gold::science: by 5% for every -25 point you go negative ( below 0 level). Conversely getting education going Positive is a major Plus. So build Community Discussion as soon as it is available.

    Keep after production and Health giving buildings while watching/applying Education, Crime and Disease builds. If any building gives you any combination of these at a relatively quick build time do it!

    Don't get lost on only one focus point. As you accumulate Techs that give new Civic choices, especially ones that will get you off the initial Civic in a category, go for it.

    Early Preh Era is not as much about getting that 2nd pop as fast as possible for your only city, but rather building foundations in all these areas. Then when a civic opens up that gives you some pressure relief use it. But you will be building these foundations thru out the early Preh Era until you hit Tribalism. Then the pace of things begins to quicken. And focused strategies can get more attention as you get more cities and all major base values expand.

    Tile improvements for that 1st City is also a major point of emphasis. Especially as resources are revealed. Get those paths built to connect resource to city inside your cultural borders. Then develop the resource as much as you can. Do Not Chop/Burn forests in Early Preh or really during all of Preh Era! Forests are your friend, :food: and :hammers: and sometimes :gold:. Place your citizen(s) on the tile that can give you all 3 of these If possible. As the Gold translates to more:science:.

    Are you catching my drift? :)
     
  6. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    This is untrue - second level of education pseudobuildings is unlocked at Sedentary Lifestyle, third - at Classical Lifestyle and so on.
    So after you get negative/positive education level you can go as low/high as you want and you won't get more punishment/bonus before you reach sedentary lifestyle.

    Prehistoric:
    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-07-04 22-43-49-85.png
    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-07-04 22-44-14-01.png
    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-07-04 22-44-52-00.png
    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-07-04 22-44-58-63.png


    Ancient:
    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-07-04 22-43-52-86.png
    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-07-04 22-44-15-77.png
    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-07-04 22-44-39-59.png
    Civ4BeyondSword 2019-07-04 22-44-47-79.png


    This punishment is easily overridden by civic/trait choices, property units, and by building all buildings.
    Great People and Great Generals penalties are hardest to counter.

    For example starter civics are way more punishing than first level of negative education.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  7. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    What I posted is Not Untrue. Perhaps you need to look at the Education xml files better. As you are only looking at one aspect of Education that is tied specifically to "Lifestyle" techs. It is the Level of Education Maintenance that carries increasing upkeep at each Lifestyle Tech (ie Era achieved). That is what you have posted.

    Also Education has increasing levels on degradation and acceleration. This can be verified during game play by looking at the City screen right panel 3rd tab. Also each level attained (negative or Positive) has a specific Name as well. Like Foolish or Wise for example.

    Going increasingly negative in Education carries increasing penalties in any Era. Inversely the same for increasingly going positive.

    Look at SpecialBuildings_Civ4BuildingInfos.xml starting at line 2406 thru line 3997. All these buildings are used in every Era. These are achieved by having either a negative or positive Education level at ever increasing or decreasing levels. And are different than the ones you posted from the Pedia that deal with levels to be maintained as Eras advance. T-brd's design is more complicated than you think.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  8. Ultimate_Waffle

    Ultimate_Waffle The soul devourer.

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    I think so. I have asperger's, so my mind gets a little too focused on certain things and I miss out on the bigger picture and it's hard for me to grasp that there's no "only" way to play this game. So you're saying food, hammers, science and wealth are all equally important? I just feel that depending on your surroundings, a second pop can be very important. Like if you have a couple of resources in your borders, it can be a sudden large increase in food and hammers.
     
  9. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    This is true. As a 2nd pop will increase or decrease all the areas of need and concern. And you should be able to get your Capitol city up to 4-7 pop by the time you get to Tribalism. But you build a solid base by doing all these things I have posted about. This gives you more options or directions you can go for your style of play.

    If you play on a crowded map (lots of AI neighbors) then conquering a neighbor does carry good rewards, obviously. As this doubles your efforts in all areas. But a crowded map has drawbacks as the game progresses directly related to map size, Game speed, and difficulty played on in terms of the Game engines performance. Longer End of Turn (EoT) waits, turns take longer to process. Unit and city build ups also increase turn processing times. And can reach a point where your system (computer) may balk ( have a MAF or actually CTD ). We, C2C have pushed a 32 bit game engine pretty hard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  10. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I know that these things stack.
    So in prehistoric you can have level 1, in Ancient level 1 and 2, in classical 1 2 and 3, same with negative education.
    You need at least +10 for first level, +25 education to have two levels of them (in Ancient era) and so on, same with negative levels too.

    So in Prehistoric era it doesn't matter if you are much above +10 or much below -10 education.
    In Ancient it would be above +25 and below -25.

    There is no point of countering degradation at +1000 education if you maxed out education pseudobuildings at +100 (have only few possible levels as you are in early eras).
    If there is decay of 5% per turn, then at +1000 education you will lose 50 education per turn from decay itself.
     
  11. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    -10 to minimum of -2000000 education equals in the prehistoric to an exact penalty of -5%:commerce:, -5%:science:, -5%:hammers:, -10% food needed to get next pop (can be a positive effect unless population gets out of control.), and a couple more modifiers that are all negative The penalties does not get worse per -25 points below -10 education, not until Ancient era that is when -25 to -2000000 will give a penalty of -10%:commerce:, -10%:science:, -10%:hammers:, -20% food needed to get next pop.
    Having between -10 and -25 education will in the ancient era give the same penalty as any number below -10 did in the prehistoric era.

    In the prehistoric era it is no worse to have -5000 education than it is to have -10 education.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    And when did this all change? As this was not true before. Was it when these Education changes were added to the Lifestyle Techs? Because prior to those additions Education did not work the way you say it does now.

    It mattered very much if you hit -50 in Preh Era and then -100, etc all the way to -200,000. This Once Was True for all eras. If they work as you say now then T-brd did some Major revisions to his Education system that blunted Education badly! Especially if you let it go increasingly negative! Now Education is a watered down Property!
     
  13. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    It was when the different lifestyle techs were added as tech requirements for the different education property buildings. It's a year or two since that happened though.
     
  14. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    See my edit to my previous post.
     
  15. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Hmm, back in Nov. 1. 2015 it used to be unlocked like this.

    1. penalty level at no tech req.
    2. penalty level at Oral Tradition.
    3. penalty level at Sedentary Lifestyle.
    4. penalty level at Specialization.
    etc.
    It got changed to only lifestyle techs later, but I don't know when, probably around the time all those new eras were added not too long ago.

    Edit: it changed on Nov. 13. 2017 to this:

    1. penalty level at no tech req.
    2. penalty level at Sedentary Lifestyle.
    3. penalty level at Classical Lifestyle.
    4. penalty level at Medieval Lifestyle.
    etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  16. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Education penalty/bonus levels were changed to unlock with lifestyle techs on SVN 9745. Before that just ordinary techs were used for it.
    That is at least since SVN 8547 when special buildings were split out.

    Probably there was time, when education property had no tech requirements at all.
    And Joseph can't get over it :lol:

    Good players can completely ignore property control units especially on lower handicaps.
    At least until their cities will start shrinking.
     
  17. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    And you think this is funny? A dilution of the Mod? Really?

    T-brd really needs to weigh in on this.
     
  18. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    And al those levels with the different names from Foolish thru Wizard or whatever is the highest all played a role as well. Each successive level by 1st 25 points in either direction activated a new level of education achieved. Good or bad.
    And this should not have made any difference to these special buildings for Education Level achieved. If they did then they are essentially worthless coding! And I can Not believe that was T-brd's intentions for His education property buildings. No matter what raxo thinks or laughs about!
     
  19. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    One would have to add a lot more than 13 education buildings to cover each 25 points step in a direction up to 2 000 000, that would be 80 000 buildings only one way, 160 000 buildings in total.
     
  20. Ultimate_Waffle

    Ultimate_Waffle The soul devourer.

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    Hm, I seem to have a bonus for +10 education and I seem to have a further bonus for +25 education and I do believe I have the latest version. (Is Version 2018-06-9 the latest?)

    EDIT: And I'm still in the prehistoric era.
     

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