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Having trouble with Hiawatha as neighbor on Deity Domination

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by macheteman, Apr 17, 2015.

  1. macheteman

    macheteman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
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    So I have been blessed to have Hiawatha as one of my closest neighbors in my last two domination games. The first one was going well until I was daggered by the Iroquois and Washington some time after taking a capital.

    I'm trying peddroelm's Persia/Pangea/Domination guide but once again, Hiawatha has an army of Mohawk warriors and a 31 def capital. I'm still pretty new to Deity and Domination, should I be trying to raze his other city first? BTW his capital has Chichen Itza, Stonehenge, and Temple of Artemis....STACKED. I can have CBs in 6 turns, but the gold might be an issue after upgrading all my Immortal to Pikemen See below:

    Spoiler :


    Any other tips for this would be helpful. I read somewhere that if Hiawatha is the first civ you meet in deity games, you should just restart the game. :crazyeye: :crazyeye:
     
  2. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    3,330
    1. You have 7 melee units and 7 ranged. I would have more ranged and less melee. Those pikes are going to be Lancers one day, and they SUCK.
    2. I would build a road between Susa and Onondaga so when I started my assault, I could retreat and advance units along it very easily.
    3. Your science per turn is way too low for this stage of the game.
    4. You are over your unit cap. If your cities had grown more, this would not be the case.
    5. City placement is poor, IMO. I'd have put Persepolis on the coast, 2nd city also on the coast to the south, and fed capital with cargo ships.
    6. Gold WILL be an issue. Would have been better to save it for CBs, but this upgrade should have been MUCH earlier. CBs are no longer gonna cut the mustard.

    Bottom line is that Archers and Pikes will struggle against a 31 defence city even if all the Mohawks decided to stay at home and worship the Turtle god.

    My advice: try to start over and concentrate on growth, and build mainly ranged units and attack much earlier. Don't worry about Immortals until you are really comfortable with a CB rush at T55.

    Hiawatha is not a terrible neighbour. For one thing, he mostly goes Piety these days and builds mainly melee units, so if you had, say 7 CBs and 3 Immortals at T55-65, you should be able to take him out.
     
  3. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    The window of opportunity for Archers is long gone as well is the one for Composite bow.

    Attack sooner or turtle until crossbow next time.
     
  4. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    Southern California foothills
    In addition to cosentient's sage advice I would add that your Happiness is at 2. That means that you'll have to leave Onandoga as a puppet until you research Mathematics for Courthouse lest you tank Happiness. At 2 Science per turn that's going to take a while.
    Settling Persepolis by the ocean will give you Incense, Sheep, food from ocean squares (More with Lighthouse) and a Caravan route to Seville for cash. If you settle by the mountain you will eventually be able to build Observatory for a 50% Science boost in Persepolis.
     
  5. mbbcam

    mbbcam Prince

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    Location:
    Cambridge
    It would probably have taken two or three turns of scouting to realise that the player had spawned so close to the coast, and only then if the first unit happened to be sent in that direction. Not many of us are prepared to spend so long looking for a settling site, particularly when the first group of tiles to be visible from the fog gives us salt, wheat, a river and a mountain!

    The next two cities are settled near luxuries that he doesn't have in the capital. As far as we can see, the coastal sites available don't have any luxuries at all.

    I'd be interested to know what the better options would have been. (And that is not a dig at anyone -- I really would like to know -- I'm trying to learn to play better.)
     
  6. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    Dec 31, 2013
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    I don't know about the coast. It just doesn't look good at all and requires cargo ships. Besides, if this is Deity with Isabella dropping that city fast, there is hardly space for 2 coastal cities in between her and the cs. That plains city near mountain has salts and other resources, and when you are going for a fast domination, you probably don't want to drag the game for very long.
     
  7. macheteman

    macheteman Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Thanks alot for this info!

    I'm still trying to alter my playstyle based on what the map gives me neighbor-wise, so these are very helpful. I should have realized right away that the capital would require much more ranged rather than Immortal, and that I shouldnt have ignored Construction for as long as I did. Tried to follow a guide but looks like I shouldve just changed the approach based on what I was given. Also unfortunate that I found 90% of the civs, but only 25% of city states on Pangea...

    I believe I already moved my settler to get next to the mountain, and like other said, wheat+mountain+salt pretty much meant I wasn't looking anywhere else ha.
     
  8. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Moriarte's Liberty Domination guide works on almost any map.
     

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