Hawk02-Japan The 5 Sacred Cities

[choxorn]

I vote 20, and I'll take Hawk's start.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Slight problem here, I get a "not a valid save" message when I try to load Killer's start. I will try to load Hawk's save and hope for better luck.

 

[Tasslehoff]

I will do it, 20 turns.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Hawk's loaded fine, so I will work on it.

 

[Elear]

I will be unable to either play Civ3 or access these forums for several days. If need be, skip me until then. (I will post again in this thread when I am fully capable).

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

I vote for 20 turns, and I'll do my own start # 1.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Here is my 20 turns:

Spoiler :

Turn 0(4000 BC)-Settler move N
Worker irrigates
Turn 1(3950 BC)-Kyoto founded, start warrior (10 turns), growth in 10 turns
Science at 100%, Pottery in 14 turns
Turn 2(3900 BC)-zzzz
Turn 3(3850 BC)-zzzz
Turn 4(3800 BC)-irrigation done, start road
Turn 5(3750 BC)-zzzz
Turn 6(3700 BC)-zzzz
Turn 7(3650 BC)-road done, move Worker NE
Turn 8(3600 BC)-Worker irrigates
Turn 9(3550 BC)-zzzz
Turn 10(3500 BC)-zzzz
Turn 11(3450 BC)-Kyoto-Warrior<Warrior (4 turns), growth in 7 turns
Warrior moves S
Turn 12(3400 BC)-irrigation is done, start on road
Warrior moves S
Turn 13(3350 BC)-Warrior moves S, showing ocean w/fish
Turn 14(3300 BC)-Warrior moves S
Science to 30%, +3gpt
Turn 15(3250 BC)-Pottery is complete. Start Warrior Code (20 turns) at 100%
Worker move SW, W to Wheat
Kyoto-Warrior<Granary (20 turns), growth in 3 turns
Warrior # 2 moves N
Warrior # 1 is renamed Long, moves SW
Turn 16(3200 BC)-Warrior # 2 is renamed Tate, moves E
Long moves SW
Turn 17(3150 BC)-Long moves SW
Tate moves E
Turn 18(3100 BC)-Tate moves NE
Long moves SW
Kyoto grows to size 3, growth in 5 turns
Turn 19(3050 BC)-Kyoto riots, hire a taxman
Tate moves E
Long moves W
Turn 20(3000 BC)-Order restored in Kyoto
Irrigation is done, start on road
Long moves NW
Tate moves N
14 gold, +1gpt Warrior Code in 10 turns

 

[TheOverseer714]

I did 20 turns with Hawk's start, looks like we did things a little differently, but had similar results. I settled in place, rather than moved, which gives our capital a slightly better shield picture with 2 mined BG's. I got Pottery from the goody hut and am on a minimum run for Alphabet. My Conquests habit of shooting for the Republic slingshot However, Alpha is excellent trade-bait, can be used to trade for all other first-tier techs.
I have 2 workers and 2 warriors, settler due in 5.
Here is my picture:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Pre-flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Get the save loaded. Look things over.

4000 BC: Found Kyoto in place. Set tech at minimum for Alphabet. Move worker 01 to irrigate the plains wheat. =>worker.

IBT: nothing.

3950 BC: worker 01 starts irrigating the plains wheat.

IBT: zzzz

3900 BC: zzzz

IBT: zzzz

3850 BC: zzzz

IBT: zzzz

3800 BC: zzzz

IBT: worker 01 finishes irrigating plains wheat

3750 BC: worker 01 starts roading the wheat.

3700 BC: zzzz

IBT: Kyoto worker=>warrior.

3650 BC: move worker 02 to FP wheat to begin irrigating.

IBT: worker 01 finishes roading plains wheat, worker 02 begins irrigating FP wheat.

3600 BC: Move worker 01 to irrigate the plains.

IBT: zzzz

3550 BC: worker 01 starts irrigating the plains.

IBT: Cultural expansion pops the goody hut, giving us Pottery It also reveals a second Gems and a Furs tile nearby, yay! Also a big desert, boo!

3500 BC: zzzz

IBT: zzzz

3450 BC: zzzz

IBT: Kyoto warrior=>warrior. Worker 02 finishes irrigating the fp wheat.

3400 BC: Warrior 01 moves SW.

IBT: Worker 01 finishes irrigating the plains.

3350 BC: Worker 01 begins roading plains. Warrior 01 moves W to mountain, sees another fur and plains. Set lux to 20% to avoid riots on growth.

IBT: zzzz

3300 BC: Warrior 01 moves S to mountain, sees a gold hill and a gold mountain.

IBT: Worker 02 finishes roading fp wheat.

3250 BC: Warrior 01 moves S to mountain, sees another gold mountain, and grass.
Move worker 02 to BG to begin mining.

IBT: Kyoto warrior=>settler.

3200 BC: Warrior 02 stays home, becomes an mp. Both workers on BG.
Warrior 01 moves SW to mountain, sees more grass.

IBT: zzzz

3150 BC: Warrior 01 moves W to mountain, sees more grass, a cow, another gold hill and ocean shores. Both workers begin mining BG.

IBT: zzzz

3100 BC: Warrior 01 moves N to Gold hill, sees fish.

IBT: zzzz

3050 BC: Warrior 01 moves W to plains, sees nothing new.

IBT: workers finish mining BG.

3000 BC: Move worker 02 to next BG, leave Worker 01 to road first BG.
Warrior 01 moves N to plains, sees another gold hill.
Set lux to 20% to avoid riots on growth. Move citizen to mined BG to get 4 shields per turn.

Our land is a bit dry, with only 1 river. I dot-mapped 3 good city sites, but we may not build all of them until we see the north. I maxed out spacing, so only 2 tiles will ever be shared. The capitol is so food-rich that it shouldn&#8217;t matter. Yellow dot could be moved S one, but would then need an aqueduct. Yellow dot could be our culture town, with plenty of shields and no fp&#8217;s to cause disease. Those forests could be chopped to speed a temple. Looks decent.
Here is my save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110452/Hawk02_Overseer__3000_BC.SAV

 

[choxorn]

Hey, Hawk, what did you get from the GH?

Oh, and here's my 20:

Spoiler :

Turn 0 (4000 BC):
-Move the Worker one tile W to wheat.
-Seeing no better location, the settler builds Kyoto on the spot-> Set to build Warrior in 5.
-Start Researching Pottery @100%- Due in 18 (Later becomes 14).

Turn 1 (3950 BC):
-Worker Starts Roading wheat.

Turn 2-3 (3900 BC-3850 BC):
Zzz

Turn 4 (3800 BC):
-Worker finishes road, begins irrigation.

IBT:
-Kyoto: Warrior->Warrior

Turn 5 (3750 BC):
-I send the Warrior Northeast to pop that hut.

Turn 6 (3700 BC):
-Warrior Pops hut, 3 Kushans are now angry.

IBT:
-2 of the Barbs die on our Warrior, and he promotes to Veteran, the other moves south.

Turn 7 (3650 BC):
-Warrior kills the third barb, but is redlined.

Turn 8 (3600 BC):
-Worker Finishes irrigation, I send him east to road/mine the BG there.
-I fortify the warrior for healing.

Turn 9 (3550 BC):
Zzz

IBT:
-Kyoto grows and gets a culture expansion.
-Kyoto: Warrior->Settler

Turn 10 (3500 BC):
-New Warrior heads south

Turn 11 (3450 BC):
-The vet Warrior, hereby renamed &#8220;Steve&#8221;, finishes healing and heads North.
-I also rename the southern warrior to &#8220;Bob&#8221;.

Turn 12 (3400 BC):
Zzz

Turn 13 (3350 BC):
-Worker finishes road, starts mine

IBT:
-Kyoto grows to size 3

Turn 14 (3300 BC):
-I set sci to zip and put a scientist in Kyoto- Pottery is still due next turn, and this prevents Kyoto from rioting.
-An accidental misclick with Steve shows Horses are just to the North of Kyoto.

IBT:
-Pottery finished-> Set research to Masonry @ 80%, due in 22

Turn 15 (3250 BC):
-I up lux to 10% and send the Scientist back to work

Turn 16-17 (3200-3150 BC):
Zzz

Turn 18 (3100 BC):
-Steve sees Light Blue borders in the north

IBT:
-Kyoto grows to size 4
-Worker finishes road

Turn 19 (3050 BC):
-I send the worker to road/mine another BG
-I tell one of Kyoto&#8217;s citizens to collect taxes to prevent a riot

Turn 20 (3000 BC):
zzz

-Next turn, a Settler will complete in Kyoto, and contact will be established with the light Blues (Probably China).
-Personally, I think mine is better than Hawk's, since in Mine, Kyoto is more productive, more land is explored, and a settler will be done soon, which means a second city long before one in Hawk's start. Also, I don't think there was any point in researching WC- if that civ is China, they have it and will trade it (and even if they are America/Spain, they'll probably have it, or have it soon, due to the way the AI researches), whereas they'll probably be less inclined to trade the more expensive Masonry.

Pic:

WTH, I can't find saves via Program Files->Infogrames->CivIII->PTW->Saves? They're there, I can load them ingame, but when I go to this folder, they aren't there! WTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: The save is uploaded now , and can be found in this post.

 

[Tasslehoff]

For some reason, when I D/L killer's save, I get Hawk's start.

 

[Elear]

Back and operational for when we figure out which start is better

 

[Tasslehoff]

See if you can open killerkid's start. It won't work for me

 

[TheOverseer714]

Killers start looked good, but if no one can open it, we might just as well all use Hawks start. I like mine and Choxorns best. Mine we have more money and the two workers have the capitol better developed. Choxorns has a higher population and is better explored, and will have a trading opportunity next turn. They are about a toss-up, with pros and cons to both. I think either will work out fine.

 

[killerkid]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while.

Elear: If you are now operational, could you play my start? (if loadable) We already have 3 finished sets for Hawk's start.

Tassle: My bad, here is the actual SAVE: (Elear, use this save too)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/62562/Killer_TRY_2_4000_BC.SAV


I will post 20 turns on my set soon.

EDIT: For Hawk's start, I like Overseer's. I actually think the capital would be a decent 20K city!!
We can use Overseers Rep slingshot, and once we are in Rep, fully utilize hills and mountains for 3-4 shields each, while making 4-5 food from our FP's. Our 2 BG's and minimized hills will hold until then.

 

[choxorn]

The Republic Slingshot doesn't work in PTW. Why?

THERE IS NO PHILOSOPHY FREE TECH!

Oh, and BTW, I think mine is slightly better than Overseer's, but that's just my opinion.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I know that. But we are going to need Republic as a government. The path to get there (Alphabet>Writing>CoL>Philosophy>Republic) are all techs with excellent trade value, and is a worthy path to follow. Alpha at minimum generates a nice pot of cash for trade also. With good trading, we shouldn't need to research the first tier. A good alternate path for Japan would be Warrior Code>Horseback Riding and then build lots of horsemen.

 

[killerkid]

My bad Choxorn (As always)

I finished.

Quick Summary. Kyoto has temple, settler founding Osaka in 2 turns. Kyoto would be make Worker>Oracle. Once founded, Osaka would make Warrior>Warrior>Warrior>Settler>Worker

The set:

Spoiler :

Turn 0-4000 BC- Settler SW to hill. Worker begin roading the cow.

Turn 1-3950- Found Kyoto. Start work on Temple.

IBT-Research Mysticism (100% 27 turns)

Turn 2-3900-ZZZZ

Turn 3-3850- Worker finishes road, starts to irrigate cow.

Turn 4-3800-ZZZZ

Turn 5-3750-ZZZZ

Turn 6-3700-ZZZZ

Turn 7-3650- Worker finishes irrigation, moves to BG

Turn 8-3600 Starts to road BG.

IBT-We see Zulu scout

Turn 9-3550- Trade Zulu Wheel for Pottery and 10 Gold.

Turn 10-3500-ZZZ

IBT-Borders expand. We see a good city spot 3 West.

Turn 11-3450-Worker finishes road, starts mine.

Turn 12-3400-ZZZZ

IBT-Kyoto grows to size 3, Temple>Settler (8 turns)

Turn 13-3350-ZZZ

Turn 14-3300-ZZZ

Turn 15-3250-Set science back to 90% to avoid losing money, Mystcism still in 4 turns.

Turn 16-3200-ZZZZ

Turn 17-3150-Worker finishes mine, heads to wines down south.

IBT-Mysticism>Alphabet (17 turns)

Turn 18-3100-Worker starts road to wines

Turn 19-ZZZZ

Turn 20-Kyoto Settler>Worker. Decide against trading Zulu Mysticism for BW.

We can always choose to trade Zulu Mysticism, I wanted to check first.

The land:

Spoiler :

The SAVE:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/62562/Hawk_02_Killer1_3000_BC.SAV

white dot is city 2's spot of choice.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Is the white spot on a river? I think it will have lots of food with three wheats, but hopefully under the forest tiles are BG's. Might want to be one square further so theres no crowding. With just 5 cities, we want no tiles to be shared.

 

[killerkid]

No, but its coastal. We can move one S and be 4 squares away from Kyoto and on the river.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Choxorn- the GH just had a map.
I like Choxorn's start the best so far mostly b/c we can start trading right away.
Overseer- there are actually 3 rivers near by. The reason why I moved the initial settler north was b/c I knew that there was a coastal river down south, and our 20k city could go there w/out sharing tiles.
I do like Killerkid's start just b/c of the grapes, but I have to see more of the map. Can someone that is doing killer's save build a couple warriors to explore more of the map?