Hawks

[Neomega]

This is probably almost more a BTS problem. But it would be *really* nice, if hawks could, or maybe even only, would, be told to keep an eye on one area. Meaning you say "recon here", and every turn, they automatically recon the same spot, at the beginning of the turn, until told to stop.

If not, I think it might be easier to make hawks an item, available only to units that can carry them, (if possible) that gives units a sentry III or IV promotion.

Same with magic eye.

This is more just a cut the micromanagement idea.

 

[Jules.lt]

Both propositions makes a lot of sense, though I'd prefer the first one, so we keep the current Recon mechanic.
But the second one would do much to make hawks less overpowered and remove some issues that come from that carrying capacity (like loading hunters with hawks on boats).

If such an "auto-cast" mechanic was implemented, it would be nice to have it on casters, too: make them automatically cast the chosen spell at the end of the turn if they haven't cast this turn.
This would simply be enabled by making a new ability for each of their spell: "SpellName (autocast)" and adding a "stop autocasting" ability. Hopefully, those wouldn't cost a cast, but if they did it wouldn't be that bad (as long as launching the autocast of the spell casts the spell on that turn).

While we're talking about less micromanagement

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

seconded. autocast... ah, the joy of no more micromanagement

 

[WarKirby]

Micromanagement is bad, indeed.

Perhaps, for the simplest interface, just a "repeat last action indefinitely", so that if the last action was an applicable one, like casting a spell, bombarding a city, or sending a hawk to recon an area, then it would be done repeatedly until told to stop, or until the action is no longer valid. Then ask for new orders.

 

[Jules.lt]

Actions being abilities/spells/effects, so that moving the unit doesn't stop it.

Absolutively

 

[Jabie]

Perhaps an Aerie improvement to dump your hawk on the top of a Mountain and leave it there.

 

[WarKirby]

But you'll usually be doing it outside of your borders. So I'm not sure an improvement is much use.

 

[Emptiness]

Meaning you say "recon here", and every turn, they automatically recon the same spot, at the beginning of the turn, until told to stop.

Yes, yes yes, oh please yes.

I think it might be easier to make hawks an item, available only to units that can carry them, (if possible) that gives units a sentry III or IV promotion.

This would be much less useful than hawks as they are now. I'd rather micromanage them than lose everything this would take away.

If such an "auto-cast" mechanic was implemented, it would be nice to have it on casters, too: make them automatically cast the chosen spell at the end of the turn if they haven't cast this turn.

I can't think of many situations where I'd want to set up an auto-cast spell, but I wouldn't have a problem with it being added as long as the hawk auto-recon is added first.

 

[Jules.lt]

I can't think of many situations where I'd want to set up an auto-cast spell, but I wouldn't have a problem with it being added as long as the hawk auto-recon is added first.

Well, there's haste, sanctify, any temporary buff like dance of blades, blinding light/charm in some cases, and a few others...

 

[Kolath]

Yes there are so many buffs that should be autocast. Does anyone know if autocast is possible with the engine?

 

[Valkrionn]

We know it's possible, as certain spells (Haste especially) are handled just like hope in FF. The spell only fades when the caster leaves the stack, which also means body 1 mages essentially have haste forever. Doesn't affect casting other than the first turn it's used. Don't know if Kael would copy it, however.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

That kind of hing requires significant SDK work that Kael would probably not want to adopt, as it can slow the game down and unless extensively used isn't worth the speed reduction.

 

[xienwolf]

Slowly catching up on posts out here in the main forum, so slightly belated thread-bump for this.



I have considered auto-recon missions, but the problem is deciding HOW to implement it.


If you do "Hawk recons this exact tile every turn" then what if the hunter walks away, or rebases the hawk to another continent? Is he still to recon that same spot? Ok, so to break that you make it so that if the Hawk moves, the auto-recon stops. But then the only use of such a thing is to extend your sight range, NOT to recon new territory (ie - if the Hunter is moving around to expose new map, he is NOT staying in one spot). This makes the Hawk a Fog-buster and invis-finder when the role was MEANT to be scouting/recon/mapping.



The other approach is to make the auto-recon be relative to the position of the Hawk. "Every turn I want you to recon the tile 2 squares north and 1 square west of yourself" This runs into the issue of failing to hit a Peak every recon mission if possible (to get the most visibility). Unless of course you are able to always move such that there is a peak in the same relative position (near impossible on a non-Erebus mapscript).



In the end, the best approach is probably to create a new UnitAI type which is only used by Hawks and Floating Eyes and allow the human to automate their Hawks under this AI type (much like how Workers can be automated. They aren't repeating something, they are just being AI controlled). Then you can write the function to look for the recon plot which will expose the most tiles to becoming visible which aren't already. Of course the problem there is that some people will want their Hawk scanning a mountain in the middle of their territory to look for invisible units and instead the automation will be trying to recon a hill just outside your territory on the other side because it reveals 3 forested hills and the mountain in the middle of your territory reveals nothing....



Either way, it is a fair amount of tricky code to write, and won't make EVERYONE happy. So I haven't sat down to try it yet. (Just wanted to share with people that it is quite possible, but very time consuming. Incase someone with some spare time decides to tackle it)

 

[WarKirby]

Slowly catching up on posts out here in the main forum, so slightly belated thread-bump for this.



I have considered auto-recon missions, but the problem is deciding HOW to implement it.


If you do "Hawk recons this exact tile every turn" then what if the hunter walks away, or rebases the hawk to another continent?

]
I think the best way to do it...


Once a spot it set, continue reconning that exact tile every turn.
Before each recon run, check if that tile is still in range. If it is (regardless of whether or not the hawk has moved) then recon away.

If the spot is no longer in range, cancel the recon order, and have the hawk ask for new orders.

This would allow the hunter carrying it, to move around freely, as long as he just hangs around near the mountaintop he's using.

 

[Blakmane]

the automate option sounds awesome. The problem you suggested may not be such an issue xienwolf, as surely there would still be an option for manual recon? It'd just be similar to automated workers sometimes building things you don't want built.

 

[Izmir Stinger]

This is probably almost more a BTS problem. But it would be *really* nice, if hawks could, or maybe even only, would, be told to keep an eye on one area. Meaning you say "recon here", and every turn, they automatically recon the same spot, at the beginning of the turn, until told to stop.

Umm... they already can. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are asking for, but if you just hold down shift and give them the order 20+ times, they will keep on doing a flyby every turn. It doesn't need to be indefinite. Having them check in every 20-30 turns to say, "Hey, I'm still here, do you still want me doing these recon missions?" isn't a bad thing. Maybe you forgot about them or the hunter they are using as a base or it is no longer important to recon there or whatever.

Others have mentioned buff spells, and it would be nice to be able to queue them up. I don't understand why you can't, you can queue worker actions...

The action queueing mechanic is already in game, it would just be a matter of enabling it for casters. I guess the problem is that they need to lock out all the other spells, but reenabling the casting buttons when you hold shift might be doable. Again, the lack of indefinite automation isn't a problem. I would appreciate it if the adept would say, "Hey, I have cast dance of blades for the last 30 turns, anything else you would like me to do like, I don't know, upgrade me to a freaking mage already?"

Have you been telling your hawks to recon a mountain tile every single turn? Cause that would suck.

 

[Neomega]

Ive never had much luck with shift and commands, besides build queue, but Ill look into it.

 

[Emptiness]

Have you been telling your hawks to recon a mountain tile every single turn? Cause that would suck.

It gets old fast, however sometimes it's important enough to do anyway.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

having to shift-click 30 times doesn't really fix the issue imho

 

[Jules.lt]

Well, I consider it much better than doing the thing manually each of 30 turns
The problem I can still imagine is that the hawk needs to be at the top of the units queue, so it acts first and you see the invisible enemy unit before you move your other troops.
I also wonder how (and if) it works when you move around the hunter that carries the hawk. I'll have to experiment.
Still a good tip, though. Thanks