Health Thread🤸‍♂️

[Plains-Cow]

I use blue screens all the time before bed and sleep like a baby. I also sometimes work out for an hour and shower before bed. I think it's more anxiety people have around sleep performance that causes them restlessness and a "sleep routine" or "sleep hygiene" just provides an illusion of control over your sleep performance, thereby lowering anxiety and improving sleep. That's why sooooo many different sleep hygiene things work for so many different people with little overlap.

 

[Plotinus]

I use blue screens all the time before bed and sleep like a baby.

Ah, you wake up screaming every ninety minutes…?

 

[Plains-Cow]

Ah, you wake up screaming every ninety minutes…?

Until I get a nipple in the mouth, yep.

 

[Narz]

I use blue screens all the time before bed and sleep like a baby. I also sometimes work out for an hour and shower before bed. I think it's more anxiety people have around sleep performance that causes them restlessness and a "sleep routine" or "sleep hygiene" just provides an illusion of control over your sleep performance, thereby lowering anxiety and improving sleep.

You're a teenager IIRC. Teenagers can sleep thru anything, my 16yo can sleep with curtains open & a lamp shining directly on her face.

You don't understand health concerns because you're young, I get it, I was 14 once, I could eat a whole large pizza & then run around playing tennis afterwards without a thought.

The earlier one thinks seriously about one's health the better but unfortunately when you're young you can get away with so much that most youth aren't very motivated.

That's why sooooo many different sleep hygiene things work for so many different people with little overlap.

? Most sleep hygiene advice is very similar.

 

[Plains-Cow]

You're a teenager IIRC. Teenagers can sleep thru anything, my 16yo can sleep with curtains open & a lamp shining directly on her face.

View attachment 699658

You don't understand health concerns because you're young, I get it, I was 14 once, I could eat a whole large pizza & then run around playing tennis afterwards without a thought.

The earlier one thinks seriously about one's health the better but unfortunately when you're young you can get away with so much that most youth aren't very motivated.


? Most sleep hygiene advice is very similar.

People can get away with things at almost any age so long as they are less anxious about it. IDK why unconscious sleep anxiety seems to be the number-one thing people can't seem to admit as a driving force, but I guess they're afraid of being aware of their own sleep performance fears, hence the "unconscious" part.

Anyway, most everyone says that they have different sleep hygiene routines and strategies and whatnot. Hot showers, cold showers, no exercise, extra exercise, melatonin, chamomile tea, meditation, reading, black curtains, no blankets, weighted blankets, pillow, no pillow, self-massage, breathing techniques, tapping techniques, etc. I've seen people at all ages talk about having insomnia and whatnot from various causes, but they all stem from the idea of "take away my sleep, and I will suffer." That, however, is simply not true. You can function fine on less sleep for awhile, and you'll eventually sleep well again once you learn that lack of sleep isn't some guaranteed misery sentence. The commonality of all sleep hygiene is that it creates a feeling of control, hence a lack of worrying about performance because you are "controlling your sleep" via whatever arbitrary ritual you believe is helping you in the moment, and you will sleep better accordingly. If people didn't think their specific ritual would help them, it wouldn't because despite "perfect" sleep hygiene, their anxiety won't let them relax enough to get deep sleep.

Spoiler The secret to "good sleep" :

Outcome Independence

 

[Narz]

People can get away with things at almost any age so long as they are less anxious about it

Lol, you're so confident based on no experience at all.

but they all stem from the idea of "take away my sleep, and I will suffer." That, however, is simply not true.

The data says otherwise.

Sleep and Athletic Performance: Impacts on Physical Performance, Mental Performance, Injury Risk and Recovery, and Mental Health - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That's just 1 second google search but they've been studying how sleep deprivation affects mood & performance for decades. It's literally used as a torture device to break people.

May as well say drinking water isn't particularly important.

Outcome Independence

If you don't care about the outcome, you do you. I care about outcomes so I'm going to learn what I can, implement different approaches & proceed with as much precision as I can muster. When you're an adult with responsibility outcomes become important because you have others depending on you.

If you don't care about outcomes & think everything is mental why even be curious enough to read this thread? If anything works if you just don't care why do you care enough to argue about it?

 

[Plains-Cow]

Lol, you're so confident based on no experience at all.


The data says otherwise.

Sleep and Athletic Performance: Impacts on Physical Performance, Mental Performance, Injury Risk and Recovery, and Mental Health - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That's just 1 second google search but they've been studying how sleep deprivation affects mood & performance for decades. It's literally used as a torture device to break people.

May as well say drinking water isn't particularly important.


If you don't care about the outcome, you do you. I care about outcomes so I'm going to learn what I can, implement different approaches & proceed with as much precision as I can muster. When you're an adult with responsibility outcomes become important because you have others depending on you.

If you don't care about outcomes & think everything is mental why even be curious enough to read this thread? If anything works if you just don't care why do you care enough to argue about it?

I've certainly slept. I'd feel like that's all the experience I'd need, regardless of age. Call me 47 if it helps you feel better lol. Data can be tortured to say anything for anyone. Also, comparing forced sleeplessness vs. sleep performance anxiety insomnia is a bit disingenuous. Roping in drinking water and saying that I think "everything is mental" is also just strawman tangent stuff. Outcome independence doesn't mean you don't care at all, it means that you're ok with how things turn out regardless because you can only control so much. The fact you're talking about "as much precision as I can muster" makes it sound like a burnout case waiting to happen. As for why I'm here, it's for entertainment. If I'm really just some "teen" on the Internet who doesn't know anything, then feel free to ignore what I say since it isn't much of an argument in the first place since I said people just do what they feel "works" for them to assuage their unconscious anxieties.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Here are some more studies that took five seconds to find lolol:

Subjective ratings and performance in the heat and after sleep deprivation - PubMed

We conclude that subjective estimates of performance are not in line with actual performance for endurance exercise after sleep deprivation and for explosive exercise in the heat.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Discussion: We conclude that subjective estimates of performance are not in line with actual performance for endurance exercise after sleep deprivation and for explosive exercise in the heat.

For longer races? The "data" is mixed and points more to emotional interpretations of tiredness and lack of sleep rather than an actual performance drop:

Will a Bad Night’s Sleep Before a Race Affect Performance? - Runners Connect

It was my first conference championship in cross country, arguably the most important team event in college running, and I was a nervous wreck. As a freshman, I was being counted on for a great run. I had never experienced pressure like that before. The night before the race I tossed and turned...

runnersconnect.net

Edit:

Here's a massive study compilation talking about how people can do great athletics for several hours without sleep in many professional contexts:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031938406003969?via%3Dihub

 

[Narz]

Outcome independence doesn't mean you don't care at all, it means that you're ok with how things turn out regardless because you can only control so much.

You can only control so much doesn't mean you shouldn't bother, it means control what you can.

The fact you're talking about "as much precision as I can muster" makes it sound like a burnout case waiting to happen.

Not really. Seems like you think any amount of effort = burnout. Effort is better than a life of quiet desperation.

As for why I'm here, it's for entertainment.

Cool, have fun but don't expect to be taken too seriously if you aren't going to engage seriously.

people just do what they feel "works" for them to assuage their unconscious anxieties.

What are your unconscious anxieties?

For longer races? The "data" is mixed and points more to emotional interpretations of tiredness and lack of sleep rather than an actual performance drop:

Will a Bad Night’s Sleep Before a Race Affect Performance? - Runners Connect

It was my first conference championship in cross country, arguably the most important team event in college running, and I was a nervous wreck. As a freshman, I was being counted on for a great run. I had never experienced pressure like that before. The night before the race I tossed and turned...

runnersconnect.net

A running coach's blog is not data.

Here's a massive study compilation talking about how people can do great athletics for several hours without sleep in many professional contexts:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031938406003969?via=ihub

People can sacrifice both to complete an ultra-endurance event. That's cool. People can stay awake for three days twitch streaming too, not sure what that has to do with health (besides that it degrades over time without sleep & one has to be cautious to mitigate the damage/risks). Did you purchase the study so you could actually read it or are you just hoping it says something that supports your view?

 

[Plains-Cow]

You can only control so much doesn't mean you shouldn't bother, it means control what you can.

Not really. Seems like you think any amount of effort = burnout. Effort is better than a life of quiet desperation.


Cool, have fun but don't expect to be taken too seriously if you aren't going to engage seriously.

What are your unconscious anxieties?


A running coach's blog is not data.


People can sacrifice both to complete an ultra-endurance event. That's cool. People can stay awake for three days twitch streaming too, not sure what that has to do with health (besides that it degrades over time without sleep & one has to be cautious to mitigate the damage/risks). Did you purchase the study so you could actually read it or are you just hoping it says something that supports your view?

People often think they can control more than they actually can in life.

"Any amount of effort=burnout" is different than saying "as much precision as I can muster." One person here is directly quoting another while the other is inserting their own spin on things.

You're engaging with me still, aren't you?

My unconscious anxieties are unknown, hence unconscious. I try to do writing and other mental work daily to make sure I tap in with as much of my underlying emotions as possible.

You didn't read the blog or the studies, then. I cited them in the post.

All of the studies I linked are free (it would be pretty silly to link someone to a study behind a paywall). It's making me feel like you peeked at none of them.

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

I'm too fat to run (bad on my knees) so I speed walk most days of the week 35-40 minutes.
so yup that's my workout
>

That‘s good. I wonder how you guys stay motivated to do something for your health.

Japanese poem:
„To begin something is easy, to continue something is difficult.“

I must admit i‘m 37 and should do something for health… the time has come, to prevent possible upcoming health issues, but how can you stay motivated and continue doing it?

 

[Snowygerry]

Make the exercise part of your daily routine, walk to work or ride a bike or something, or look for a job with physical aspect to it ?

 

[Narz]

People often think they can control more than they actually can in life.

Sure but most people underestimate how much they can control and opt to just accept/trust social norms rather than see for themselves what their limits are which is really sad imo.

All of the studies I linked are free (it would be pretty silly to link someone to a study behind a paywall). It's making me feel like you peeked at none of them.

You're pretty silly then.

"Purchase pdf". $$$

That‘s good. I wonder how you guys stay motivated to do something for your health.

I love lifting weights , it's usually the highlight of my day.

I like making progress. I hate getting old. I see people who are frail and I loathe to every be like them.

Japanese poem:
„To begin something is easy, to continue something is difficult.“

There's truth to that.

But also paradoxically the opposite is also true. Often the very beginning is the hardest part (especially with starting an exercise routine or changing ones eating habits)

I must admit i‘m 37 and should do something for health… the time has come, to prevent possible upcoming health issues, but how can you stay motivated and continue doing it?

Presumably you're a gamer if you're posting here so just gamify it. With fitness it's easy just keep track of your progress.

With diet it's trickier as it's harder to measure progress like at the gym (and it's hard to know what's 'working'.

If the process feels like a chore it's hard to continue, if it feels like a hobby you'll keep at it.

Fwiw I started exercising consistently only at around 37 (and got very consistent only around 40).

Another proverb (Chinese maybe?) says
'the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the next best time is now'. So same with any health journey.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Sure but most people underestimate how much they can control and opt to just accept/trust social norms rather than see for themselves what their limits are which is really sad imo.


You're pretty silly then.

"Purchase pdf". $$$


I love lifting weights , it's usually the highlight of my day.

I like making progress. I hate getting old. I see people who are frail and I loathe to every be like them.


There's truth to that.

But also paradoxically the opposite is also true. Often the very beginning is the hardest part (especially with starting an exercise routine or changing ones eating habits)


Presumably you're a gamer if you're posting here so just gamify it. With fitness it's easy just keep track of your progress.

With diet it's trickier as it's harder to measure progress like at the gym (and it's hard to know what's 'working'.

If the process feels like a chore it's hard to continue, if it feels like a hobby you'll keep at it.

Fwiw I started exercising consistently only at around 37 (and got very consistent only around 40).

Another proverb (Chinese maybe?) says
'the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the next best time is now'. So same with any health journey.

Which study costs money?

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

Make the exercise part of your daily routine, walk to work or ride a bike or something, or look for a job with physical aspect to it ?

This all is not possible, unfortunately.

But also paradoxically the opposite is also true. Often the very beginning is the hardest part (especially with starting an exercise routine or changing ones eating habits)

I know it very well, i‘ve done bodybuilding and martial arts for years… the beginning was hard, so you‘re right. But even harder was it to keep doing it, because i hated it actually.

But i think, the solution could be doing something i like, and then make a daily routine of it. 6 days per week, and keeping track of the progress is actually a nice idea!

 

[Narz]

But even harder was it to keep doing it, because i hated it actually.

But i think, the solution could be doing something i like, and then make a daily routine of it. 6 days per week, and keeping track of the progress is actually a nice idea!

If you hate it that's no good. It's like a marriage, if you hate it there's no way to make it work because why would you want to. The activities of life have to be the rewards in & of themselves otherwise what's the point.

 

[Plains-Cow]

This all is not possible, unfortunately.


I know it very well, i‘ve done bodybuilding and martial arts for years… the beginning was hard, so you‘re right. But even harder was it to keep doing it, because i hated it actually.

But i think, the solution could be doing something i like, and then make a daily routine of it. 6 days per week, and keeping track of the progress is actually a nice idea!

How big did you ever get? Bicep inches? Do you still hate bodybuilding?

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

If you hate it that's no good. It's like a marriage, if you hate it there's no way to make it work because why would you want to. The activities of life have to be the rewards in & of themselves otherwise what's the point.

You‘re right, and this is why i stopped it ~12 years ago.

How big did you ever get? Bicep inches? Do you still hate bodybuilding?

I don‘t know, never measured it, but i did it without steroids.
I don‘t hate bodybuilding, i hate it to have to be at gym and do the training.

 

[Plotinus]

This is my problem. I’ve never found a form of exercise I liked. I’ve tried all manner of cardio exercise and I did some weight lifting for a while, but I hate it all. At the moment I’m forcing myself to go cycling every morning before breakfast because I’ve found that cycling is probably the activity I find least objectionable, and getting it done early means the prospect of exercise isn’t hanging over my day, but this is a long way from enjoying it.

I have quite severe chronic mental health issues and I find that, contrary to what everyone says, exercise makes me more depressed, at least in the short term. I think that in the longer term it has no discernible effect on my general mood. The only way I can do it long-term is by forcing myself into the habit of doing it every day, because if I miss a day I feel noticeably less miserable, and that means I have negative motivation to do it the next day.

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

This is my problem. I’ve never found a form of exercise I liked. I’ve tried all manner of cardio exercise and I did some weight lifting for a while, but I hate it all. At the moment I’m forcing myself to go cycling every morning before breakfast because I’ve found that cycling is probably the activity I find least objectionable, and getting it done early means the prospect of exercise isn’t hanging over my day, but this is a long way from enjoying it.

I have quite severe chronic mental health issues and I find that, contrary to what everyone says, exercise makes me more depressed, at least in the short term. I think that in the longer term it has no discernible effect on my general mood. The only way I can do it long-term is by forcing myself into the habit of doing it every day, because if I miss a day I feel noticeably less miserable, and that means I have negative motivation to do it the next day.

I guess then it‘s really not for you. But, did you try to walk outside in nature, in a park or something similar, with trees and grass and maybe some water, in just a normal speed? This is what i could like, because i love nice landscapes. If you enjoy the sound of moving leaves in the wind, the singing of birds and the flowers and blossoms in spring, the yellow and red leaves in autumn, the snow in winter, a fresh breeze in summer, the sound of a river or the waves at coast, then maybe give it a try, if you did not already?