Hearts of Iron 4

grandad1982

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Dec 4, 2007
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I thought it was about time we got a thread going for this do we can discuss what we know about the game and what we hope for as well!

Also it would be nice to talk about it in aa civilised way unlike the shambles that is the paradox hoi4 community :eek:
 
I'm personally really excited about the new battle plan system and hope that it works as well as I Imagin it should!
 
The production lines sounds interesting to me, and more realistic than the ability to keep upgrading pretty much any non-sea unit forever.

I do hope the combat winds up being more accessible in practice than HOI3's. I always wound up automating combat when I played anyone larger than Brazil in HOI3 since it was such a pain to manage. For HOI to be fun, the combat needs to be part of the fun, so I'm really hoping they can strike a balance between pure automation and tons of micromanagement this time. Maybe one of the more recent dev diaries has covered this; it's been awhile since I checked them.

The National Dog concept could add a nice twist to the game, too.
 
I'm also really liking the sound of how air and naval power has been changed to more abstracted and strategic region based play. Air units in hoi3 were just silly to have on the map as they were.
 
I have to say I'm somewhat intrigued by this game just from the battle plan system. A way to reduce unit clutter for newbies such as myself while still maintaining the sense of grandeur in battles.
 
I was surprised to find that this appears to be the only thread on HOI4, and it has so few posts. I guess CKII and EU4 are more popular here.

Anyways, I play this game from time to time, and have found it rather fun playing second-tier nations, especially as focus trees for more nations are debuted. And it turns out I really do like the production line system! The combat is important, of course, but the industrial planning is right up my alley.

It can also result in some great alternative history storylines.

In my most recent game, AI Poland has conquered the Soviet Union. I'm sure that would make @warpus proud.

Spoiler :

20210727151902_1.jpg



See below for the story of the events that led to Poland conquering the USSR.

Spoiler :
It's been an unusual game in a few ways. Probably the first oddity was that when Germany declared the Anschluss, Austria decided to fight back as Hungary had guaranteed Austria's independence. The Germans won, but this set the precedent of anti-appeasement. Six months later when Germany demanded the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia, all three of the Czech guarantors stood by their ally - France, Britain, and Romania (whom I was playing). Italy, meanwhile, sided with Germany earlier than they did historically.

So it was that France and Italy fought border battles, while the RAF reinforced Czech and Romanian airspace. The Czechs held firm for the most part, while Romania liberated Hungary and most of Austria. By this point, the Germans had penetrated the northeasternmost parts of the Sudentenland, and the Romanian advance stalled. For a month or so, it looked like perhaps Allied momentum had stalled out.

But all was not as it seemed, and a group of Wehrmacht officers attempted a coup against the Nazi leadership and their unsuccessful war, which had already resulted in Vienna falling to Romania. This coup did take out the highest leadership, but resulted in a civil war in Germany, with Hermann Goring as the new leader of the Reich. Still, it proved instrumental in speeding up an Allied victory, and in less than a year the war was over, with Konrad Adenauer as the Chancellor of a new German Republic, and Italy forced to institute a republic, hand over their colonies to France, Romania, and Ethiopia, and let the Romanians occupy their southern lands until stability could be fully demonstrated.

In the east, meanwhile, Japan managed to bungle into fighting a war with both the Soviet Union and China. China caved after the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, giving Japan the lands around Beijing. Japan thus remained at peace with Nationalist China, but decided to declare war on Communist China. Whether as a partial compensation to the Nationalists, or purely out of spite, this resulted in the Soviet Union declaring war on Japan as they soon admitted Communist China to the Comintern.

At first, Japan seemed to be winning in the east, but Imperial leadership was not satisfied with northeastern China, and believed they could still conquer all of China. Thus they declared war on China as well. This quickly proved to be a mistake, with China advancing almost immediately, and the full force of the Red Army arriving in the eastern provinces within a month of the start of the Sino-Japanese war. The Kwantung Army was utterly destroyed, and Korea became Soviet; if it weren't for the Imperial Japanese Navy, the home islands would have been invaded, too. But the Japanese had at least occupied Vladivostok and destroyed the Soviet Eastern Fleet before they got overwhelmed.

So, flush with victory, the Soviets turned west, forging claims on Poland and Romania; the latter was in the Allies, and the Poles in alliance with the Baltic states. The Soviets decided to strike at Poland first, declaring war on June 22, 1940. Romania knew, of course, that the Poles would inevitably be conquered, but Polish and Romanian leadership decided to play coy, and while privately invoking their treaty of mutual support, publicly did not invoke the treaty and instead stated Romania would remain a neutral bridgehead. This was a ruse, however, meant to buy time for the Romanian Army to finish mobilization.

The Soviets bit, moving their troops on the Romanian border to help in Poland, and for four weeks, the Soviets and Poles fought, with the Poles losing some ground in the south but not collapsing. Then, the Romanians announced a declaration of war on the Soviet Union, in support of Poland, and bringing in Germany, France, Czechoslovakia, and the United Kingdom as allies. Without waiting for the western allies to show up, Romania sprung across the Soviet border, taking the Russian border forts without resistance, and advancing to the Southern Bug River before the Soviets could react.

The Soviets would react, but could never fully stop the Western momentum. Soviet T-26 tanks proved outdated against Romanian and Polish models, and the Red Army, while impressive against an overwhelmed Japan, had not fully recovered from Stalin's purges. The Romanian Army pushed forward into November, occupying critical steel production facilities in Orel, Kursk, Belgorod, and Kharkov before the winter set in. This would prove to be a critical blow over time, as without these sources of steel, the Soviets could not adequately resupply their armies over the long term.

Over the next six months, the Poles and the Latvians increasingly made progress in the north. Latvia captured Leningrad, and a few months later Poland conquered Moscow. Germany had launched a successful amphibious invasion of Crimea, and France followed up with a successful landing near Abkhazia.

However, all was not well in the west, as Italy, still on probation, showed that a democratic system did not guarantee the peace by declaring war on Albania. King Zog defied Italian demands to step down, and the UK and Germany honored their guarantees of Albania. This would draw many troops away from the Soviet front, granting the increasingly undersupplied Red Army a temporary reprieve, especially from French, German, and British advances. Italian would occupy the territories Romania controlled in southern Italy, and even take Vienna while Western forces were in Soviet lands, but the Czechs would rebuff them at the border, and soon the Italians would be in retreat.

The Eastern front would not remain quiet, however. Poland and Latvia continued to occupy the north, and Romania secured lend-lease aid from Yugoslavia, Greece, and Turkey, allowing the Romanian army to return to fully-equipped status while the Soviets slipped to not much greater than half strength. Combined with an increasingly large Romanian motorized infantry corps - and copious amounts of Allied oil - this allowed the southern Allied front to resume as well, taking Tambov, the Stalingrad, and the Astrakhan.

By late summer of 1941, Italy had surrendered for a second time, and it was increasingly clear the Soviets could not put up an effective resistance, even against Latvia, and that in the east Japan was once more on the move, having retaken Korea. So it was that on October 7, 1941, the Soviet Union, operating from their temporary capital of Murmansk, surrendered to Poland, creating the map seen at the beginning of this post.

The game isn't over yet; Nationalist China continues the Comintern struggle against the rest of the Old World. How long it will take for them to be defeated is unknown, as is how much of the Polish Army will march all the way to China. And of course, a great question is what the world will look like after the eventual peace treaty. I'm rooting for Latvia to keep a presence on the White Sea, and the Poles to establish a Pacific base, but less drastic changes are more likely to carry the day.
 
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I was surprised to find that this appears to be the only thread on HOI4, and it has so few posts. I guess CKII and EU4 are more popular here.

It would help if the controls worked consistently, the game didn't repeatedly lie to you in ways that can end runs, and if multiple advisers/modifiers didn't literally do nothing :p.

One of me "favorite" moments is when the QA team confirmed that it's intentional/WAD to consider that Curacao isn't a Caribbean island. But there are lots more direct, every-game problems. Like:
  • War score calculations being a complete joke
  • Peace conferences not working for both subjective and objective reasons
  • Land being taken away without player being able to fight for it
  • Puppets switching factions and declaring on you while ignoring the usual independence rules (without a civil war)
  • One nation calling multiple factions into the war against you by switching factions mid-war
  • Units not going where ordered, orders being arbitrarily cancelled or changed without notice
  • Focuses lying and saying they will let you create factions, then preventing you from creating factions
  • "Spearheads" participating in pinning attacks
  • Bugged paratrooper orders
  • Bugged supply that forces a reload so that being out of supply counts
  • Absolute meme joke pathing when units are on front line orders, coupled with a post-release, intentional planning bonus decay nerf to right clicking units (aka "F the player, use our art project of a front line "control" scheme that doesn't work" or take a penalty)
  • Units attacking away from their front line entirely
  • Faction allies harming you more than enemies by spamming units onto a front so heavily that everything is out of supply, freezing progress
  • MP issue where even password-protected games are getting IP flooded right now

There are a lot of cool ideas and gameplay elements in HOI 4. It has the makings of a good game in principle. I want it to be a good game. It would be fun if it's a good game.

It is not a good game, however. Controls don't work, UI routinely lies, the outcome of the war doesn't reflect what happened in the war...these are all years-long issues the developers have ignored. I do not and can't respect the conduct of that development team nor the product they've delivered. If they want to change that, they can begin by making their controls work and stopping the game from lying to us in gameplay-altering ways.
 
Classic late game HOI4 from a vanilla game in early 2020.
This is why I don't play late game, hundreds of brain dead AI allies swarming China completely ignoring the abysmal supply. I never even put any of my own units in China because I knew the AI would still dump all of their armies on the front no matter how bad the supply got. There have been two Dev dairies about a new supply system so hopefully the AI will be smarter about supply soon.
20200305174923_1.jpg
 
I've certainly had some fun times with it, here and there. If it worked properly, it would be a great game. That's what's so frustrating about it. I could be a great game. It really should be a great game. But because the devs can't manage basic things like controls, UI, and bugs, it isn't a good game. Still, there are some interesting puzzles to solve at least:



Of course, normal focus tree + AI idiocy meant USSR still thought it was a good idea to demand land "or else" from Poland. No help from the allies in their war in this timeline, lol.
 
Finally a Belgium focus tree! That was always the strangest omission to me, considering the pivotal geostrategic importance of Belgium above the Maginot Line and the starting date of January 1, 1936 - when Belgium and France were still in a military alliance. And who didn't want to play Belgium and try not to have a repeat of 1914? I know I gave Belgium the old college try.

Aside from that, seems kind pricey, but the early reviews are positive. Maybe those 11 new music tracks really are great.

New features in the 1.15 patch as well, most notably:

Added a variety of horse colours for cavalry units

Maybe I'll have to play another Belgium campaign this winter, with the fancy new horse colours...
 
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