Heaven/s

Gaga1111

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Ok so I read the layers of hell entry and asked myself:"What's with the heavens?" As I got it the hells are like a machine which is used to filter the souls into demons (I think Balors are the biggest stage or maybe they aren't) and most end up in mulcarn's vault as tar demons and so on.As there are some things in which the god gods don't agree at all (I think Magister mentioned this so I'm sure this is in some way correct).I imagine it being like a Angel creation machine which forces them to different good/anti-evil things.

If some of you would be so kind to discuss on this I would be very glad.
 
Balors are not the final stage of mortal souls processed into demons, Demon Lords are. Balors are the weakest of the True Demons, that is demons who were created directly rather than having once been mortal.


The heavens are not connected like the hells are. This is in part because Ceridwen is the only one able to link worlds like that, and in part because several good gods do not get along. (The disagreements between Junil and Sirona are the most noteworthy.) Once a mortal soul passes into a heaven it is processed into an angel to serve that heaven's god. This is a much less efficient process than the assembly line of hell, so far fewer mortals make it to be angels than demons and their ascent is usually much slower. Without a buffer like Mulcarn's hell the good gods have no capacity to claim excess souls and wait for them to be ready to process, but are limited to accepting mortals whose deeds and faith in life already began the process of the transformation. Angels are also more specialized, focused on the virtues of their god rather than having some skill with all the vices of the evil gods like most demons have.



I am not certain, but I suspect that Sucellus might have no heaven. I think his heaven was mentioned in the original Arthendain pedia entry, but that was changed to simply having the spirit of the God of Life floating through Erebus. Nemed likely formed a world for himself before becoming mortal, but I see no evidence that either Arawn or Sucellus ever claimed it. If the heaven of life does exist, it is likely mostly empty. Lesser angels were not created until after Nemed fathered the human race, so the angels of life were created by Arawn to guard the passages through which souls would be able to return from the netherworld to Erebus, and led by Basium. Basium hates Sucellus, and most angels of life probably serve the fallen archangel rather than the upstart god. The God of Life may lack the resources to process souls into angels, or may simply have a preference for resurrecting them in still mortal forms to serve him.



It is possible for angels and demons, whether once mortal or not, to fall or rise and serve another god. Most good gods (especially Junil) don't trust former demons and are unlikely to accept them, but Sirona would always show them mercy. I would not be surprised if many of Sirona's angels and angels in training spend much of their time searching though the hells to find any souls willing to repent. Most good gods also do not trust the few Serephim who did not fall with Bhall (in part because many of those later changed their mind and are now powerful demons), but Lugus accepted them en masse. Lugus and Sirona are both accepting of former sinners, but Lugus tests them all very carefully while Sirona prefers just to hope for the best. (I don't have much to base this on, but I like to think Chalid Astrakien was once among the Emyrs, a worshiper of Ceridwen more evil than the Profanes of the Ashen Veil. We know at least once captain of the Radiant Guard was raised in that foul faith.)
 
Ok thanks I knew there was something wrong with the thing when I mentioned the balors.
 
Wait, what does Basium have against Sucellus? I also got the impression from the game that a big chunk of Bhall's former forces joined up with Bassium in his crusade.
 
Wait, what does Basium have against Sucellus? I also got the impression from the game that a big chunk of Bhall's former forces joined up with Bassium in his crusade.

Sucellus was the God of Nature until he was 'killed' by Mulcarn. He convinced Arawn to give him the Precept of Life (something Basium feels he deserves) and is now the God of Life; His former Archangel, Cernunnos, is the new God of Nature.

So basically, Basium dislikes him because he thinks he should be the God of Life, not Sucellus.
 
Basium has strongly disliked Sucellus since his initial refusal to get involved in the Godswar (and the actions he took to help form a neutral side demanding peace rather than helping Good destroy Evil), but it was only more recently that it became personal. Basium had been petitioning Arawn to make him God of Life to make him more effective at fighting demons since fairly early in the Age of Dragons, and constantly getting an answer of No. In Basium's mind "the god of dandelions" is the weakest and least deserving divinity, both because of his unwillingness to fight until the end of the godswar and because he managed to get himself killed while failing to do what a mortal "flesh puppet" later did for him. He is personally insulted that Arawn would refuse him and then give into Sucellus, who had not even wanted the precept for himself but only took it because there was no other way to convince Arawn to allow him to be resurrected. Basium may also see this act as Sucellus facilitating Arawn "bad behavior" of inaction, and sending his old master into an even deeper resignation as without Life to balance him he no longer even cares enough to run his own realm of the underworld. I imagine that if Laroth ever managed to usurp the precept of death from Arawn and use it to bring an end to humanity that Basium would lay most of the blame of Sucellus for leaving Arawn too feeble to resist.
 
It's interesting that Basium hates Sucellus for being too passive and not Arawn, who is portrayed as the most lax and indifferent god. Also, what is the relationship between Arawn's underworld and the various hells/vaults of the evil gods?
 
Man, there's a lot of lore for FFH. I didn't know some of this stuff. Once again, MC proves he knows more than me.
 
It's interesting that Basium hates Sucellus for being too passive and not Arawn, who is portrayed as the most lax and indifferent god. Also, what is the relationship between Arawn's underworld and the various hells/vaults of the evil gods?

As far as I understand it (I might be wrong), the underworld is not connected to the hells or any of the other vaults. I'm unsure if it's Arawn's personal vault or something larger, but all of the unpious, virtuous souls that the hells can't claim, yet don't fit into any god's vault, pass into the underworld. The angels and such there see it differently, but all the souls that pass through are in a sort of permanent dreaming state.
 
As far as I understand it (I might be wrong), the underworld is not connected to the hells or any of the other vaults. I'm unsure if it's Arawn's personal vault or something larger, but all of the unpious, virtuous souls that the hells can't claim, yet don't fit into any god's vault, pass into the underworld. The angels and such there see it differently, but all the souls that pass through are in a sort of permanent dreaming state.

Correction: Not all. Laroth is able to waken certain souls.
 
Oh right. I forgot about that.

Can't he also turn souls into magical items like the Netherblade? What happens to them, are they consumed and 'die'? Or do they continue dreaming, but are just arranged so they provide power?
 
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