Helicopter Thread

[gwendoline]

I was going to add 4 modern attack helicopters, but finally only 2 is done so far

CAIC WZ-10
Kawasaki OH-1



Westland Scout
Saro Skeeter
Bristol Sycamore
Bristol Belvedere



Westland Lynx
Super Lynx
AgustaWestland Wildcat
AgustaWestland Merlin



All helos I posted before is in Download Base

 

[wolf_66]

Nice surprise.
Good civ3 helicopters gfx are relatively rare, thus if you plan to do some they will be certainly appreciated

 

[Wolfshade]

Nice to see things we talked about a time ago become real. Audiomaster, your audioslaves expect sounds from you.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

OH MY GOD, I come to the board to look for helicopters and I find this.

Like wolf_66 said, there aren't a lot of choppers about, so this thread will undoubtedly prove useful.

 

[Pounder]

OH MY GOD, I come to the board to look for helicopters and I find this.

Like wolf_66 said, there aren't a lot of choppers about, so this thread will undoubtedly prove useful.

I agree 100%.

 

[cemo1956]

It´s sad that Civ3 just can´t handle choppers correctly.
Just using these great sub-hunters as sea-units to make them into the game is wrong, but what shall one do ???

Same thing with Hueys and Blackhawks. My best shot is using them as AirCav ground units, which is bending it a bit. Instead of "walking" around infantry they fly and do not get stopped by terrain (except mountains).

Problems with the Apache attack-chopper too I guess. Just have to use it as a ground unit with stealth attack & blitz, and perhaps weaker attack than MBTs.

Heck, even Civ3 own version of Helicopter works wrong. It can pick up units at airfields and in towns and drop them so far, BUT they can´t pick them out of trouble and bring them back home. That is IMHO the BIG thing about "chopper-war" that evolved in Vietnam.

Truly sad no-one can program Civ3 engine so that choppers can fly out and get that injured unit back into town/airfield.

Even Civ2 (if I remember correct) worked with land-units loading other units, so the Truck worked fine and then the idea with transport choppers could have been used correctly. As I understand the AI is just crazy not knowing how to load groundunits into another groundunit and moving it along. That would be a break for Civ3 and land transport.

Even further the issue with models like USS Tarawa amphibious assault ship not being able to be used in Civ3 as it should. Just imagine having Marines and some Choppers embark on a amphibious assault ship. Then the Marine load into the choppers and fly into the hotzone.
A modern way of warfare that just can´t be handled in Civ3.

Well one just have to stay dreaming I guess

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Even Civ2 (if I remember correct) worked with land-units loading other units

I think that was Alpha Centauri you could design a land transport. I've never seen that in Civ2.

But I wholeheartedly agree it's a damn shame choppers can't be used as all-terrain units.

 

[gwendoline]

Truly sad no-one can program Civ3 engine

Still hope on alternative civ versions and wish all good to developers.

But for now we can use (in harmony with AI) all those specific multirole units just by their basic abilities i think...

 

[nick0515]

Heck, even Civ3 own version of Helicopter works wrong. It can pick up units at airfields and in towns and drop them so far, BUT they can´t pick them out of trouble and bring them back home. That is IMHO the BIG thing about "chopper-war" that evolved in Vietnam.

Truly sad no-one can program Civ3 engine so that choppers can fly out and get that injured unit back into town/airfield.

I was thinking a bit about this today and came up with a way for choppers to pick up units but it has problems and the AI would not be able to use it.

If you change a chopper from an air unit to a land unit it can then airdrop onto a tile where a unit is. The unit can be loaded into the chopper and then with the rebase option the chopper can go back to a city. Unfortunately, it has to wait one turn before it can rebase back to a city even when I gave it 2 moves and blitz. Apparently airdrop uses up all it's moves in one go. It's not perfect but it works.

 

[Ozymandias]

It´s sad that Civ3 just can´t handle choppers correctly.
Just using these great sub-hunters as sea-units to make them into the game is wrong, but what shall one do ???

Same thing with Hueys and Blackhawks. My best shot is using them as AirCav ground units, which is bending it a bit. Instead of "walking" around infantry they fly and do not get stopped by terrain (except mountains).

Problems with the Apache attack-chopper too I guess. Just have to use it as a ground unit with stealth attack & blitz, and perhaps weaker attack than MBTs.

Heck, even Civ3 own version of Helicopter works wrong. It can pick up units at airfields and in towns and drop them so far, BUT they can´t pick them out of trouble and bring them back home. That is IMHO the BIG thing about "chopper-war" that evolved in Vietnam.

Truly sad no-one can program Civ3 engine so that choppers can fly out and get that injured unit back into town/airfield.

Even Civ2 (if I remember correct) worked with land-units loading other units, so the Truck worked fine and then the idea with transport choppers could have been used correctly. As I understand the AI is just crazy not knowing how to load groundunits into another groundunit and moving it along. That would be a break for Civ3 and land transport.

Even further the issue with models like USS Tarawa amphibious assault ship not being able to be used in Civ3 as it should. Just imagine having Marines and some Choppers embark on a amphibious assault ship. Then the Marine load into the choppers and fly into the hotzone.
A modern way of warfare that just can´t be handled in Civ3.

Well one just have to stay dreaming I guess

The best way I've found to handle choppers is to make them land units and give them paradrop, amphib, blitz, ATR (stealth is a good addition .) It's the closest I've been able to come to, "reality."

,

Oz

 

[RickFGS]

Great work gwendoline! These are trully beauties and deserve to enter the month´s competition for unit graphics

 

[Ozymandias]

Greta work gwendoline! These are trully beauties and deserve to enter the month´s competition for unit graphics

-- Yes, and that too

-Oz

 

[gwendoline]

These are trully beauties and deserve to enter the month´s competition for unit graphics

...what i forgot

 

[clamel]

The best way I've found to handle choppers is to make them land units and give them paradrop, amphib, blitz, ATR (stealth is a good addition .) It's the closest I've been able to come to, "reality."

,

Oz

Hm Paradrop?
That was a new angle indeed. It works super if the chopper is in a city or on an airfield. It will then just fly "over" whatever terrain and units that´s between it and the spot you like it reach. However then it gets tricky, doesn´t it ?
After all you can´t make "grasshopper" moves around the map, but OK half the problem is solved.
Have you seen the AI perform this with choppers ?
The stealth attack and blitz is to make it a little weaker than MBTs but still powerful enough to make a difference. ATR of course.

The amph trick should be cool. The "normal" small amph-landing craft takes only foot units. The chopper should be able to land on something bigger (like Tarawa perhaps) then truly attack amph from the Tarawa.

The Q on this is if it could actually perform a paradrop from the ship some 4-5 squares out on sea. That would have really been a big hit and we getting close to truly chopper attacks from the sea.
Wishful thinking of course.

 

[Quintillus]

Nifty-looking choppers there. I agree, they probably ought to be in the competition.

I think that was Alpha Centauri you could design a land transport. I've never seen that in Civ2.

But I wholeheartedly agree it's a damn shame choppers can't be used as all-terrain units.

I believe it is Alpha Centauri with land transports. You can actually add them in Civ3, too - IIRC it's Paasky's WWII scenario that has land transports. The only problem is the AI doesn't use them, so it becomes an unfair advantage for the human. But it could potentially work just fine in a multiplayer game.

 

[Balthasar]

Great work, Gwendoline! I'm impressed!

Gwen, recently I've been researching Vietnam War units as part of something I'm doing for my dad, who is a vet of that war. In my research, I found that the following helicopters were used in Vietnam:

Copter________________________________________________ In CFC database?

1947 Bell H-13 "Sioux"_____________________________________No
1953 Mil Mi-4 transport (PAVN)______________________________No
1957-1969 Sikorsky UH-34 "Choctaw"________________________________Yes, by Ripptide
1960 Sikorsky H-19 "Chicksaw"______________________________No
1961 Sikorsky SH-3 "Sea King"_____________________________________Yes, 3 var.
1962 Bell UH-1 Iroquois "Huey"_____________________________________Yes, by Hunter, BeBro
1962 Sikorsky CH-5 Tarhe "Skycrane"__________________________No
1964 Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight "Phrog"____________________No
1965 Boeing CH-47 "Chinook"______________________________________Yes, by Ripptide
1966 Hughes OH-6 Cayuse "Loach"____________________________No
1967 Sikorsky CH53-A Sea Stallion____________________________No
1967 Sikorsky HH53-B Sea Stallion "Super Jolly Green Giant"_______No
1967 Bell AH-1G Huey "Cobra"________________________________No
1968 Mil Mi-8(PAVN)____________________________________________Yes, by Ripptide
1969 Sikorsky VH53-D VIP Presidential Helicopter________________No
1969 Bell OH-58 Kiowa____________________________________________Yes, by BeBro
1969 Bell AH-IJ "SuperCobra" & "SeaCobra"__________________________Yes, as AH-IW by Ripptide
1971 Sikorsky RH-53A Sea Stallion____________________________No
1971 Sikorsky S-58T _______________________________________No
1971 Hughes 500__________________________________________No

I would note that the Mil-Mi4 and Mil-Mi8 were Soviet copters, used by the NVA.

The first on the list, the Bell H-13, was also used in the Korean War. (& seen in M.A.S.H. on TV)

If you find any of these interesting to make in the future, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Ozymandias]

The amph trick should be cool. The "normal" small amph-landing craft takes only foot units. The chopper should be able to land on something bigger (like Tarawa perhaps) then truly attack amph from the Tarawa.

As ships like the Tarawa only carry helos, set them to carry only foot units, and set helos as foot units (the ATR will take care of any movement issues resulting from that flag.)

Best,

Oz

 

[Goldflash]

Goldflash rears his ugly head to approve.

 

[gwendoline]

Balthasar, of course I'd like to have most of those copters, but which exactly i'll plan to make (or even remake existing) is hard to say now. The main thing to me is the balance between nations. After finishing french Alouettes and choosing models for next step, i'm stuck with Westland Wasp now... After all it will be some most needed models from US industry.

 

[Wyrmshadow]

The following models I have and will gladly share, just need to find the time.
1947 Bell H-13 "Sioux"_____________________________________Yes
1953 Mil Mi-4transport (PAVN)______________________________think so
1957-1969 Sikorsky UH-34 "Choctaw"________________________________Yes
1960 Sikorsky "Chicksaw"______________________________maybe a simple version
1961 Sikorsky SH-3 "Sea King"_____________________________________Yes
1962 Bell UH-1 Iroquois "Huey"_____________________________________Lots
1962 Sikorsky CH-5 Tarhe "Skycrane"__________________________crappy model
1964 Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight "Phrog"____________________Yes, flightsim model
1965 Boeing CH-47 "Chinook"______________________________________Yes, tons
1966 Hughes OH-6 Cayuse "Loach"____________________________Yes
1967 Sikorsky CH53-A Sea Stallion____________________________yes
1967 Sikorsky Sea Stallion "Super Jolly Green Giant"_______Yes
1967 Bell AH-1G Huey "Cobra"________________________________lots
1968 Mil Mi-8(PAVN)____________________________________________Yes
1969 Sikorsky VH53-D VIP Presidential Helicopter________________Yes
1969 Bell OH-58 Kiowa____________________________________________Simple model, plus Kiowa Warrior
1969 Bell AH-IJ "SuperCobra" & "SeaCobra"__________________________Yes, probably
1971 Sikorsky RH-53A Sea Stallion____________________________Yes
1971 Sikorsky S-58T _______________________________________Yes
1971 Hughes 500__________________________________________Yes

but what I don't have is time.