Help a dF Find Its Leader

[The Almighty dF]

I've been playing Civ4 since it came out, and have been playing BtS since it was released a few months back... but I've never really been able to settle down on a leader.

Basically, this is how I love to play:
I spend the Ancient Era and onwards, up till Modern, simply nonviolently expanding my empire, focusing on empire management and being in the lead scientifically. I build wonders, but only the major ones like Pyramids and Great Wall (I find Great Wall almost a mandatory build. I'm unlucky and tend to get zerg-rushed by barbarians who leave my units chasing their tails as they destroy my improvements.)
I stay out of diplomatic things, preferring to watch the other civs destroy each other. Only trading with weaker civs.
Then, at modern era, I begin my attack. Taking out the closest civ to me. If multiple civs are around me, I go for the weakest one.

I just can't tell what leader/civ is best for what I do.
Generally I play as Huayana Capac (I refer to him as Hawaiian Carepack), since he does have nice traits... but his UU isn't useful at all for my strategy and is UB is mediocre.

I think the only traits I know for sure wouldn't be useful to me are Spiritual (I don't switch civics much) and Imperialistic. Possibly Expansive, because honestly I never have a problem with illness.

Any suggestions?

 

[BENdage]

I generally play the same kind of strat, just with a few more wonders. Bismark is my first choice, his UU is great for late game expansion, UB allows for super production cities. The ind trait allows for fast wonder building and expansive is useful. Second choice is the dutch guy, whatever his name is. Financial helps a lot and his UU and UB are pretty good too

 

[The Almighty dF]

I was actually considering the Kaiser, since the Panzer is the better of the late game UUs. The UB also seems nice, and industrial would be great to help me get the Great Wall and Pyramids before anyone else.

Van Oranje, though...
Financial is good, but I generally see creative as weak. Also his UU is... kinda worthless unless you're a colonizer. I will agree that he has a -great- UB, though.

Another leader I'd been curious about was Napoleon... if only he was Financial or something other than Organized. Of course, that wouldn't actually fit Napoleon as he had more debt problems than anyone in political history.

 

[Sjaramei]

Another leader I'd been curious about was Napoleon... if only he was Financial or something other than Organized. Of course, that wouldn't actually fit Napoleon as he had more debt problems than anyone in political history.

Napoleon is the best leader for Domination. Large cities and quick courthouses makes a production monster early which doesn't go broke thanks to courthouses. Organized is a trait which grows on you, you don't notice it as quick as financial, but after a while you feel crippled without it

Looking at your playstyle it seems you are fond of Industrious, any leader with that trait and some economic trait should fit you. Roosevelt could work, though he has very late UU and UB. And you could always pick Hannibal if you want Cha/Fin
Quick teching and a military trait for your very late war

 

[The Almighty dF]

FDR does look like he could fit my play style but...
He's one of the leaders I won't play as.
I'm a history buff, and this had led to me preferring to play against certain people (Mao, Stalin, FDR.. okay maybe it's less of me being a history nerd and more of a hatred for communism and socialism.)
...And I'm Scottish, so I also prefer playing against England. (Find me a Scotsman who doesn't enjoy dropping nukes on an English leader. Just try it.)

Kaiser of Germany is going nicely, though... I'm getting nothing out of the expansive trait.
Starting to wonder if I prefer Financial over Industrious.

Wonders I've built: Pyramids, Great Wall, Parthenon, Colossus, and the Hanging Gardens.

I much prefer being in the tech lead and having a well kept empire.

 

[DaveMcW]

Elizabeth.

2 great teching traits, plus the option to draft redcoats if someone needs to be conquered before the endgame.

 

[BENdage]

Have you considered using unrestricted leaders and being de gaulle of the germans?? I cant bring myself to do it since historically, its a joke. But the traits are good, ind and char, so plenty of wonders and high level units, and you get to keep the Panzer and assembly plant

 

[AlessioCerci]

Lincoln.........

(whats this with the assembly plant - its a mediocre ub at best. Build faster with coal - meh cities have gd prodcution by now anyway, and its not that expensive. And the ability to run 2 extra engineer spceicalists well thats ok but not gr8. AND panzers are mowed down by anti-tanks infantry now neway so all in all germany isnt the best.)

 

[madscientist]

Base don what you have said some ideas.
1) Roosevelt is the best, but if you hate playing him, it's out the window.
2) Hyuana is the best all-arround.
3) Frederick. The organized and philosphical trais will work better than Bismarks Ind/Exp for your style providing you can get the wonders you want early. Since Germany start with mining, it means faster production and chopping of the great wall. The pyramids (representation) and Freds Phil trait should shoot you to the tech leader.
4) Asoka. Yeah odd I know but the Indians make great late game warriors, especially when other AIs UU are outdated but your's are not. He starts with mys and mining meaning in 1 tech (masonry) you can be building the GW. Spiritual is more powerful than you may think, and getting an early religion and shrine always helps (you need not convert to it, if diplomacy is a concern).

Just some ideas

 

[madscientist]

Lincoln.........

(whats this with the assembly plant - its a mediocre ub at best. Build faster with coal - meh cities have gd prodcution by now anyway, and its not that expensive. And the ability to run 2 extra engineer spceicalists well thats ok but not gr8. AND panzers are mowed down by anti-tanks infantry now neway so all in all germany isnt the best.)

I think their UB is fine although I would have preferred 1 free engineer instead of 2 possible ones. Germany needs to run reprentation to maximize the advantage, they get alot of power and science from the engineers. Think about it, Germany can run 8 engineers in the avergae city, and 10 engineers in the ironworks city. Those numbers are plain impossible with any other civ.

The UU is rather odd. If you are technicalogically advanced it's a non-issue but if the AI your fighting has tanks you will definitely appreciate them. Yes BTS gives the anti-tank unit with artillery (not always taken by the AI as they can go to flight for rocketry) but also the anti-tank gunship is very late. Tanks in BTS have a movement advantage over anti-tanks units, compared with gunships which moved faster than tanks in warlords.

Finally on the UU, it beats out modern armor and is the only unit that can (even gunships fall short to modern armor) so even if the Germans are a little behind in tech they fight a good modern war.

 

[AlessioCerci]

I didnt say the German UB was bad, its just that some were saying it was very good, which it is not.

 

[Andvare]

Unrestricted leaders?

Stay with the Inca fellow, and go for whatever UB you fancy that round. A great builder combo is Capac + Dutch UB, very good production capabilities nomatter where you are.

 

[cabert]

I suggest Ragnar.
Financial should help in keeping the tech lead, while agressive will help your gunpowder troops beat up your victims.
+ the UB is pretty helpful on modern ships
+ if you play it right you could upgrade berserkers into very nice amphibious infantry/riflemen/grenadiers whatever you like.

 

[stuttrboy]

If you are fighting gunpowder wars only then I would suggest someone with the Protective trait for nicely upgraded gunpowder units. Both Sitting Bull and Wang Kon are probably good choices as well. Protective/Philosophical or Protective/Financial. I would have suggested a certain English Protective leader but you said you wouldn't play as one.

 

[r_rolo1]

I wonder why nobody pointed João II until now... if you don't want to spend hammers in a army early, it think that the best option is to spend them on settlers and workers. Imp/Exp seems very adequate to that... And with some luck you'll be the big dog with no effort ( of course that the UU and the UB are very situational.... but I find Feitoria a incredibly strong UB ( OT: try it with Collosus and a Fin leader )

 

[madscientist]

I didnt say the German UB was bad, its just that some were saying it was very good, which it is not.

Germany and the Americans are the best late game civilizations, hands down (honorable mention to the Russians and English). I disagree, I think the German Assembly plant IS one of the best UBs, especially in BTS with those 2 food corps and the extra food which allows Germany to actually take advantage of the extra engineers (Not easy in warlords). In late game warfare and Spaceship construction production is power.

 

[madscientist]

I wonder why nobody pointed João II until now... if you don't want to spend hammers in a army early, it think that the best option is to spend them on settlers and workers. Imp/Exp seems very adequate to that... And with some luck you'll be the big dog with no effort ( of course that the UU and the UB are very situational.... but I find Feitoria a incredibly strong UB ( OT: try it with Collosus and a Fin leader )

Good point. But don't you need Astronomy for the Feitoria which obsoletes the Colossus at the same time. You also need alot of costal cities, just like Ragnars and Hannibals UBs.

 

[oldsaxon]

Here's my thinking, trait-by-trait:

Agressive
The cheap buildings aren't needed till the end of the game, and you'll have them up by then anyhow. The promotions are nice, but won't apply to Tanks or Artilery. So... pass.

Charismatic
It sounds like you don't play at that high a level, so the happiness means very little to you. The XP boost would be very nice, but irrelevant for most of the game... and at the end too, if you have enough of a tech lead. Pass.

Creative
You may sneer at creative, but it's actually very useful in a peaceful land-grab. Why? It means your cities can grow without Monuments, Stonehenge or Religion. Three cheap, early and peace-orientated buildings make it even more attractive. You should give it a try.

Expansive
This trait isn't worth too much at the lower difficulties. Sure, cheap Granaries are nice, but only essential if you're a slavery addict... in which case you might be better off with Charismatic anyway, so pass.

Financial
An awesome trait for a peace-nik.

Imperialistic
Anything that lets you expand quickly is wonderful in a game where you're not warring early. Best used with Financial or Organised so that you don't burn your economy.

Industrious
Great for most peaceful types, but it sounds like you don't build many wonders anyway... and as the tech leader, you won't have much competition for them. Pass.

Organised
If you're not going to war early on, then your empire will be relatively small. Accordingly, Organised loses its shine. However, the cheap buildings are still great. Overall, a medium.

Philosophical
Only you can answer this one. Do you enjoy using lots of specialists and manipulating your Great People? If so, this is amazing, but if not, you shouldn't even consider it.

Protective
Pass... I doubt you get attacked much anyway, especially with the Great Wall and a Tech Lead.

Spiritual
Spiritual is more of a warmonger's trait... if you're sticking to the same strategy for most of the game, you don't need to switch civics (as you'd noticed).

Conclusion?
Financial&Imperialistic could be nice - but only if you can put up with Victoria.
Organised&Imperialistic will also let you expand quickly - Julius Caesar.
Creative is better than you give it credit for. William of Orange is worth a try (also Financial).

By the way, you'll notice I haven't said much about UUs and UBs. Well, that's because I don't feel there are any really great modern-era UUs. Panzers are nice, but only if your opponents have Tanks too, and you'll still want to move to Modern Armour as soon as its available. Navy Seals are good too, but they come at the same time as Tanks - which are stronger, do collateral and have Blitz. Basically, the only UUs I feel are relevant to you are the Fast Worker (India) and the Carrack (Portugal).

On that note, Joao is a good pick but only if you can avoid going broke; and Gandhi might be worth a try if you feel like founding every single religion, and building their shrines as well (just for kicks).

MadScientist - the Feitoria is available with Economics, and if you have the Carrack at your disposal (and don't plan on Renaissance wars), then you can put off Astronomy for quite a while.

 

[r_rolo1]

@madscientist

No, you need Economics for the Feitoria ( check spoiler below )

Spoiler :

Collosus + Feitoria + Lighthouse + Fin leader = sea of money

 

[madscientist]

Here's my thinking, trait-by-trait:

Agressive
The cheap buildings aren't needed till the end of the game, and you'll have them up by then anyhow. The promotions are nice, but won't apply to Tanks or Artilery. So... pass.

Charismatic
It sounds like you don't play at that high a level, so the happiness means very little to you. The XP boost would be very nice, but irrelevant for most of the game... and at the end too, if you have enough of a tech lead. Pass.

Creative
You may sneer at creative, but it's actually very useful in a peaceful land-grab. Why? It means your cities can grow without Monuments, Stonehenge or Religion. Three cheap, early and peace-orientated buildings make it even more attractive. You should give it a try.

Expansive
This trait isn't worth too much at the lower difficulties. Sure, cheap Granaries are nice, but only essential if you're a slavery addict... in which case you might be better off with Charismatic anyway, so pass.

Financial
An awesome trait for a peace-nik.

Imperialistic
Anything that lets you expand quickly is wonderful in a game where you're not warring early. Best used with Financial or Organised so that you don't burn your economy.

Industrious
Great for most peaceful types, but it sounds like you don't build many wonders anyway... and as the tech leader, you won't have much competition for them. Pass.

Organised
If you're not going to war early on, then your empire will be relatively small. Accordingly, Organised loses its shine. However, the cheap buildings are still great. Overall, a medium.

Philosophical
Only you can answer this one. Do you enjoy using lots of specialists and manipulating your Great People? If so, this is amazing, but if not, you shouldn't even consider it.

Protective
Pass... I doubt you get attacked much anyway, especially with the Great Wall and a Tech Lead.

Spiritual
Spiritual is more of a warmonger's trait... if you're sticking to the same strategy for most of the game, you don't need to switch civics (as you'd noticed).

Conclusion?
Financial&Imperialistic could be nice - but only if you can put up with Victoria.
Organised&Imperialistic will also let you expand quickly - Julius Caesar.
Creative is better than you give it credit for. William of Orange is worth a try (also Financial).

Very nicely done in answering the thread title. The only additional point is expansive: faster worker production and the extra 2 health makes more of a difference late with BTS pollution issues. That would also open up Khmer (creative/expansive) and Mayans (financial/expansive), and both UB's would be helpful. Ghengis is IMperialistic/expansive but mounted units are useless late in the game, so his UU/UB do not help at all.