Help Beating Emperor Game 3 Izzy's Revenge

[mjg5591]

Hello again everyone,

After losing the last game, I figured I post another game with the same leader.

Izzy is our leader, Revenge for defeat in Game 2,

I have only played her one time and lost. Help with stradegies for her is welcome.

She also starts with mysticism and fishing. Nice for trying to grab early religion. Since we aren't on coast fishing here no the best.

Traits are spiritual and expansive. I like the expansive trait for faster workers and the health bonus. Spiritual is nice IMO. I like the ability to switch civics without anarchy. Nice for switching between war build up and economy civics. Faster temples doesn't hurt either for the happy cap.

The UU and UB, again no expierance with them, as my last game never made it to them.

Citadel seems nice for the extra exp for siege. And the UU seems nice for the defense bonus.

The settings,

And finally the start, Again first one generated.

Only see 2 silk and no food resource, This isn't looking to good so far. I'll probably move the warrior NW to see if I see food.

I don't mind if people shadow the game, but I ask you put in spoilers and don't go past the date I have played. I'll be playing game about every other night using the tips I get in this thread.

Here is the save, I'm using BUG 4.0 if it matters.

 

[Kbo]

NW of the warr looks like tundra to me, best bet seems to be to settle in place for lots of hammers with some fresh water/ river for a hybrid capital and move the warr SE for exploration. My guess is the unforested tile 2S1W of the settler has some sort of food, since it doesnt seem to be riverside (though theres an offchance the river could swing that way) im guessing an unirrigated corn or a grassland cow.

 

[kossin]

Highly doubt there's food north (tundra) but perhaps some seafood. Food is either NWW (can't open save, but it might be forest) or SSW and there could be sheep on the hill 2S from the warrior.

Moving 1S may get you something or not.

 

[Silu]

Horrible, horrible start with Spain's techs. Worker techs from scratch plus having just 2(!) improvable tiles pre-BW? Ouch, that better be a wetcorn south and a gold east

 

[bestsss]

Since it's epic - warrior 1st (steal worker), teching mining->bronze working and just chopping your settler to find a better place to settle, preferably w/ fish/clam/hills.

 

[Jehoshua]

Id settle in place. I cant really see any other viable options

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Notes

There looks like there is an unforested tyle to your south (in the fog) which may have food on it, and an unforested hill to your east which may have a resource. Couple of headwaters near you could be good for finding sites for later settlement

Considering the tiles mentioned are the only workable tyles present pre BW, the obvious choice as mentioned previously is mining followed by bronze working. The next tech id go for is the wheel, after that depends on what you want to do.

 

[mjg5591]

Played to 3150BC,

Took advice from everyone and settled in place. Got us a grassland cow our only food. This will be a production capital, Maybe even put HE here later.

Took advice again from poster's and Tech path went Mining> BW>

Build order War> Worker > Warrior currently. He will escort the settler I plan to chop.

3875BC Meet Sully

3850BC Sailing from hut.

3750BC Meet Peter. Scout from east.

3425BC Meet Brennus. Met his scout near Istanbul. He is the Hindu founder.

3275BC Worker steal from Sully.

3175BC Peace with Sully. I also stopped here as BW came in. We have 2 sources of copper close.

I'll need DOT map help for cities though. Planning on axe rushing Sully. He is due south maybe 4-5 tiles away, and Istanbul looks like nice cottagable land.

Seems like I never get to expand peacefully in my first 3 games.

Screenshots of land.

Going forward,

1. Settle copper city, chop and whip up an army and take out sully?

2. Tech path TW>AG>AH? Does this look like a good path?

3. Find other neighbor's. I think Peter is East and Brennus SE.

I have 2 workers since I stole one from Sully.

Should I continue Warrior in capital to hit size 3 and start settler or should I just go settler now?

Thanks for the advice so far and hopefully the advice to come. Izzy wants her revenge.

Mike

Save,

 

[kossin]

You've got some nice land east, I sense a Capital move at some point. Sulley's capital isn't exactly great but if scouting shows that Peter/Brennus aren't so close then axe rush him, otherwise, grab as much land as you can and kill him with Catapults later.

 

[Kbo]

Agree 100% with a quick axe rush, quick probably being the operative word, sully will pump out settlers VERY quickly probably very soon, then turn to defensive units. Looks like the copper / corn site 4E1N of madrid is your best bet for the first city, and you wont have to wait for a border pop for axes.

 

[mjg5591]

You've got some nice land east, I sense a Capital move at some point. Sulley's capital isn't exactly great but if scouting shows that Peter/Brennus aren't so close then axe rush him, otherwise, grab as much land as you can and kill him with Catapults later.

I don't know how close Peter is, but I met him early from the east. So he can't be too far away. Met Brennus alot later and down near Sully Capital. So I'm sure he probably is furthur away.

I was thinking capital move to Istanbul if I rush and making Madrid HE city.

Maybe I'll play short round and try and find peter to see how close he is.

I don't see many city sites out there. I also don't want Sully getting to his UU later down the road.

Thanks

Mike

 

[mjg5591]

Agree 100% with a quick axe rush, quick probably being the operative word, sully will pump out settlers VERY quickly probably very soon, then turn to defensive units. Looks like the copper / corn site 4E1N of madrid is your best bet for the first city, and you wont have to wait for a border pop for axes.

Ya I'm leaning this way right now, although things can change. I'll wait to a few more poster's advice comes in. But Sully being only 4 tiles south screams rush.

Thanks

Mike

 

[mjg5591]

Played to 1725BC, Need advice going forward.

Tech path went TW, AG, AH, Pottery, writing (current, no beakers)

Not much happened this round.

2675BC Settled Barcelona. Copper/corn city to the east. It has barracks and a monument already.

Madrid has granary, barracks, started on axes.

1725BC I stopped for a few reasons.

1. Sully settled a city real close to me. Peter has a 3 gold capital and is close to the east.

2. I don't think I can settle alot of cities peacefully.

3. Who is war target? I thought at start of round it would be Sully, but now I think Peter is better target.

Going forward really could use advice here on who to take out. Neither Sully's or Peter's capital is on a hill. Sully has 3 cities peter 2. Peter looks to have better land.

Tech path? Writing or maybe IW? I'm guessing writing here.

I also have settler near Barcelona that needs to be settled, but where. Could use help for 3rd city site so I can build my army.

Need to scout south and find Brennus. I lost a Warrior heading down there. Need to get another down there.

Screenshots,

Any advice will be helpful and Thanks again,

Mike

Save

 

[kossin]

While Peter's capital seems good, he doesn't seem to have a good food resource (the fog has 1 forest, 1 plains hill (sheep, wine) and what looks like a plains (wine, cow, sheep, wheat).

Since you have another settler out, I'd play peacefully for a little while, there are some good spots available. Pig+Corn+Horses looks nice for instance (it can later share the corn with a city that grabs the Marble).

DoWing Sulei now will hurt diplo with Peter who's not the nicest of neighbors - but you can still cripple him by parking a couple axes next to his cities then take him out at Construction if you would like to. It's cheap but it works

 

[JammerUno]

Rush Peter, that capital will make him a nightmare later on, and it'll make your game seem like noble.

 

[vicawoo]

I don't think you should have built a monument in your second city. The southeast bronze would have been preferably to deny suleiman (settle on grassland hill so you can get flood plain and bronze). I also think you should have started the settler right at size 2 due to the lack of decent resources in your capital.
I would have preferred to delay the wheel to get the cow up, but that may have not been viable techwise.

You want to minimize roads and travel time. Building a road to the southwest to meet up with a road going southeast from madrid is optimal. Ankara's on a hill so build a road straight to his capital from his northeast. You have enough forests that you want to chop out a 3rd worker while growing and then you can send it to road. Send a warrior to scout his perimeter so you can detect any bronze.

Buildup at turn 92

Spoiler :

 

[mjg5591]

While Peter's capital seems good, he doesn't seem to have a good food resource (the fog has 1 forest, 1 plains hill (sheep, wine) and what looks like a plains (wine, cow, sheep, wheat).

Since you have another settler out, I'd play peacefully for a little while, there are some good spots available. Pig+Corn+Horses looks nice for instance (it can later share the corn with a city that grabs the Marble).

DoWing Sulei now will hurt diplo with Peter who's not the nicest of neighbors - but you can still cripple him by parking a couple axes next to his cities then take him out at Construction if you would like to. It's cheap but it works

Settling peacefully I only see maybe 5 decent cities. Maybe 6th west of capital for the fish and corn. Maybe I could try this til cats. But I think Peter needs to go before he gets to big.

 

[mjg5591]

I don't think you should have built a monument in your second city. The southeast bronze would have been preferably to deny suleiman (settle on grassland hill so you can get flood plain and bronze). I also think you should have started the settler right at size 2 due to the lack of decent resources in your capital.
I would have preferred to delay the wheel to get the cow up, but that may have not been viable techwise.

You want to minimize roads and travel time. Building a road to the southwest to meet up with a road going southeast from madrid is optimal. Ankara's on a hill so build a road straight to his capital from his northeast. You have enough forests that you want to chop out a 3rd worker while growing and then you can send it to road. Send a warrior to scout his perimeter so you can detect any bronze.

Buildup at turn 92

Spoiler :

Thats a nice stack by turn 92. That can easily take out Peter or Sully. Your position is far superior than mine. Amazing to see someone else play same game more effiectly. Thanks for the help and tips. I usually settle my 2nd city with food resource. I never would hav thought to settle 2nd city there.

 

[mjg5591]

Rush Peter, that capital will make him a nightmare later on, and it'll make your game seem like noble.

I am still leaning towards this stradegy, but I haven't made up my mine yet.

 

[Gumbolt]

Overall it looks like Sulie has no real military resources unless he has copper or horse hidden away somwhere.

I see a city site east of Moscow that will give flood plains, cows and 3 gold!!! Thats the kick start to your economy. If Moscow gets in the way burn it.

Overall you can whip/ chop 8-9 axes easily and wipe out an Ai. Remember dont over expand. The 3 gold site will help you reach Alphabet early. Remember to use food for growth then work the gold once its size 5-6+. i would farm the flood plains till you can make use of the gold.

On flip side you could rush sulie, set up the marble and chop out a wonder. Ankara would be a good cottage city and fits well with your capital. Cottages would be key here but you need to start building them. Worst case scenario is you have 6-7 cities and no real source of science till you get to Alphabet, currency or COL. Dont be afraid to burn a few far off cities. having 6-7 cities will put your science to 0%-10%.

Honestly your last Spanish map had a huge opportunity for a Religion spam. It just needed 4-5 warriors to fog bust early on and a early rush of Moscow. With the oracle or Sh you would of had a great early shrine.

In terms of this game that additional settler was not really needed. I would of chopped out axes and started the war 2200bc not 1500bc or so.

 

[mjg5591]

Played til 200BC,

After all the advice given since the last post I made. I decided to go after Peter, his capital is just to nice to pass up. I thought about trying to play peacefully, but I could only see maybe 5-6 decent cities if I rushed them out. I was also afraid of Peter teching and expanding away.

Tech path went writing>Alphabet, choose this because it seems lately I tech aesthetics and still have to tech alpha anyway. I also wanted this just in case I couldn't kill Peter to get some techs for peace. I am currently teching Currency.

1550BC I settled Seaville Marble/corn/cow city. Looking back I think Gumbolt was right, no way I should have made a settler for a 3rd city. Hammers should have wetn towards military. Also looking and Vicawoo's post he had 9 axes by turn 90 with only 2 cities.

I built, chooped , and whipped up about 12-14 axes. I sent 6 axes south and 7 or so axes east towards Novgorod. I finally declared in 950BC when both stacks were outside 2 different cities of Peter. He had 4 at this point.

900BC I capture and keep Novgorod. Also auto raze St. Pete. Although I would have razed to save maintenance.

775BC I send both stacks to meet at Moscow and Capture Moscow. No wonders but 3 GOLD. Thought about razing per Gumbolt's suggestion and resettle, but I will just settle another city east and use the gold there.

525BC Peter is dead. Razed city to north in tundra that claimed horses. I will resettle this site later when economy back on track.

335BC Alphabet comes in and I make 2 trades. Also worth mentioning that Sully is in WHEOOHRN. I am obviously the target. So I start fortifying my border cities with him.
The trades were Alpha to Sully for math and hunting. Alphs to Brennus for IW.

305BC Did something I have never done but read alot while lurking higher level games. I BEG archery of Brennus.

290BC Sully declares on me. I knew it was coming and as of 200BC he has yet to send anything into my territory. I have 3-6axes that can stike his stack in a city with no culture defense. His stack in about 3 swords 2 axes and 2 archers. I have my 10exp unit here also, I don't want to lose him before I can build HE when I tech Lit. HE will go in capital.

Also I expect to move the capital, like Kossin suggested. Only thing is where. Barcelona looks good to me, but I am open to suggestions.

Also A GS popped last turn. I have noidea what to do with him. I need help here. I can bulb compass settle or academy in future capital site.

Also Tech path help. Is currency a good choice here? I know currency is always good. But after currency what should I tech? Maybe head towards Lit for TGL? I have marble and can prolly pick up masonry in future trade.

I made a DOT map in with the lands picture. Does this look good? Any help here welcome. I am horrible and settling in the right spots.

I also haven't scouted down south, still don't know where Brennus is. I prepared for war with Peter then I knew SUlly was coming so I wanted the defense. Really need to get this done.

Screenshots

Thanks for the help so far,

Mike

Save.