Help for Noble please

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by abeverat, Dec 6, 2005.

  1. abeverat

    abeverat Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
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    Hello,

    I have played as Warlord and I can easely win dommination or cultural victory. My problem is with Noble.

    First, I am not able to construct one of the basic wonders because I stay 1 or 2 turns behind, but I can work on it.

    I always have very good starting positions, with Gems, Silver etc, Horses sheeps etc etc. All perfect

    My cities are good enough in order to produce Swordmans in 2-3 turns max


    But my problem is gold. I do not have enough income, even though I choose all civics with low upkeep. The effect is that my research stays at max 30% of my income, and hence I lag behind to my adversaries


    Can anyone tell me how I can get more gold out of my cities ?

    PS : Many automated workers work all day long

    Alex
     
  2. scienide09

    scienide09 Regular lurker

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    A few things to consider...

    How big is your empire? If you're expanding too quickly, city maintenance will drag you down.

    If you're leaving your workers on auto, they may not be working the land as best they can. For example, are there lots of farms where there could be cottages? Automated workers do not automatically improve the land in the best way possible.

    Also, if you're using the lowest maintenance civics in terms of how much it costs, you could be slowing your economy. Though the base cost to operate under a better civic may be higher, the more freedom that civic offers may allow your population to be more productive/happy/generate more income, meaning that you can offset the higher-civic cost by earning more $$ to begin with.

    Are you producing useless buildings in cities that don't need them? Eg.: A courthouse in a city a few tiles away from your capital is pretty useless, as its costs aren't outweighed by the savings it gives you.

    Conversely, are you building the wonders that act as secondary capitals far away from your capital city, reducing the maintenance costs of nearby cities?

    Hope that helps.
     
  3. javal

    javal Chieftain

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    I'm having the same problem as the OP, but mine usually doesn't start until the 20th century. I found that by founding at least one religion and building the holy building for it, I stay comfortably ahead right up until the 1900's hit. Then it's like I'm at a standstill, while the second and third place civs seem to gain 100 pts. per turn. I too regularly kick butt on Warlord, but this is what happens on Noble. So I could use some tips too.
     
  4. Finite Monkey

    Finite Monkey Warlord

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    Scienide hit on a couple good points. I also suggest reading through the forums a bit to see what else might turn up. I'll put down a few hints that might change things a bit. For large "strategy" issues you'll have to refine your game, but here are a few easy tips that I use to increase income:

    1. Courthouses, Market Places, Banks and Grocers. If you get all of these in your largest cities you should be better off.

    2. Play a financial civ. Especially early on, the financial civs will give you more gold which in turns equates to more science etc.

    3. Religion. You should try to found at least 1. Then actively spread that religion to as many cities as possible, especially the AI cities. Build your holy shrine with your Great Prophets and for every city that is of your faith you get +1g. If you fund multiple religion you can actually have 100% science even on higher difficulty levels.

    4. Resources and Trade: If you have 5 rice patties don't sit on 4 of them not doing anything, trade them. If you even get 2g per turn for them thats 8gp per turn which can pay for one of your cities.

    5. Quality vs. Quanity: Don't expand too quickly. If you see your science rate dip below 70% start thinking about scaling back until your income goes up again then expand some more.

    Other than the above it is hard to say what specifics you can try. If you post a save game people will often wiegh in and give you more specific tips.
     
  5. Marcus_Aurelius

    Marcus_Aurelius The True Emporer

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    Know how much it will cost before you expand. Your first 2 cities are free, then it's 1 gold for the third, and 2 gold for cities 4-6. However, there is a distance factor as well. Cities within 4 squares of the capital are free, but that is not terribly practical. The point is that you should consider the cost of building a city really far away, because it will cost you a lot more than one that is close.

    I think that this article here:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138473
    is great for understanding city upkeep better.
     
  6. lastchance

    lastchance Chieftain

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    Get more gold. Build Cottages, get trade routes, and don't expand too quickly.
     
  7. La_Musica

    La_Musica Chieftain

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    Hi there, I'm also playing on noble. I have beaten noble on some maps, but lost on others. I lose the majority. I have found that russia does well. it think I was using cathrine, not sure though.

    anyhow, I always do well up until the industrial period. One or two civ will start to pull away. its usually due to them having more cities. so the problem I see is...timing, when to build you cities. At some point you might need to take a hit with expanding because the 1 or 2 of the AI's will be on conquest or expansion mode. So I figure to stay competitive, I need to have as many cities as the leader does, keep on pace with him/her. of course that is tricky, because the computer probably gets some sort of bonus on the higher difficulty levels that allows it one extra city or so w/o going bankrupt or losing to much money.

    time games seem tougher, unless your conquest, then its easier. just take a couple AI civs if your even with tech(a weaker civ/smaller). It will really boost your score.
     
  8. Desert-Fox

    Desert-Fox King

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    1 suggestion, do not always follow the computer tip where to build a city... It is good sometimes.... but You need 3-4 resources around your core cities. First city I usually build where the settler have been spot, I don't want to lose a turn ... unless there is a way better place near that.

    Do not build farms... they are useless, unless there is a special resource. Build farms if you want to get score victory, otherwise cottages always beat it. If farms would do more, for example add some health or production, I would use them, but extra food adds more people what means more unhappiness, more disease so more trouble. Maybe they balance them later.

    You need to know what victory type you will go... In civ3 I could decide it later... every victory type was too easy to get even in monarch/emperor. But now if you just hang around you perhaps get score or spaceship but always to get that is not fun.

    Note : You do not need excellent relations when you go for culture victory, these are needed for diplomacy one. Never trade alphabet away... let AI to research it own.
     
  9. thordk

    thordk Prince

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    my last cultural win has been on prince with elizabeth. traded everything, even expensive core techs, the world has loved me.
    placed my three legendary cities next to some resources and built cottages everywhere from the start. chopped some workers and settlers in the beginning, to get 6 cities.
    research has been low, but you don't need much techs for a cultural victory. music (or drama? which one's for culture rate again? ^^), liberalism and democracy are the core techs.
    as soon as you get those, switch to 100% culture, get some cultural wonders/buildings in your three core cities meanwhile and spread religion. perfect if you found some, but is not a nescessarity.
    after switching to 100% culture push out defensive units with all except your legendary cities.

    in my prince game no civ attacked me, but you never know ;)
     
  10. Desert-Fox

    Desert-Fox King

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    For cultural victory I researched also assembly line, I needed to defend myself. Also beelined to fusion, so got engineer. And then 100% culture. Even the legendary cities produced only culture, 1000pts per turn :)
     
  11. MikeH

    MikeH Prince

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    The way to stop the AIs catching up or pulling away from you in the modern era is simply to have more productive cities than them. People will often warn, correctly, about the dangers of expanding too quickly, but don't go the other way and settle for only 8 or 9 cities, once your financial buildings and civics kick in you should have no problem running 15-20 citites with your science rate at 80-90%. You won't be able to do this simply by settling most of the time so use your UU to take out a weak neighbour. Noble AIs will tend to stick at 8 or 9 cities unless they get lucky in an early war, however they build a lot of cottages which will pay off in the endgame, by being bigger your economy will outperform theirs.

    This assumes that you are aiming for a space or time victory. If you are going for culture, a smallish civ may well win, but you probably aren't worried by the tech race in that case.
     
  12. thordk

    thordk Prince

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    fusion and 1000 pts per turn? what's the year your aiming at for victory? seems like late 1900s, nearly 2000s
     
  13. Desert-Fox

    Desert-Fox King

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    Late 1900... yeah I just first time did it, actually it wasn't emergency... the problem was that I got 2 cities legendary too early and the third took time...
    I got fusion 1800-1900...(researched 50% sci rate). After that 100% culture. AI gave me the money what I needed. They were way behind in tech:)
     
  14. bancki

    bancki Chieftain

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    Don't automate workers. What I do is cottage plains and farm grasslands. Forrests in plains, lumberbill. Forrests in grass, farm (when possible), with this should get started.. And make one city with lots of hill just for pumping out units, sometimes build buildings which increase health and :). Forrests which are on hills don't mine them before you are building some wonder in city, to get hammers.

    pretty simple, you will learn more while playing
     
  15. Mon Mauler

    Mon Mauler Warlord

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    I've found that just managing more carefully is usually enough to give the human a decided advantage over the AI at Noble level. You should not take that to mean that Noble requires micromanagement because it doesn't. However, instead of just following the computer's advice, I've found that trying to ignore the computer and think through the situation logically is the best way to improve.

    This is especially true when it comes to two things: workers and technology. One of your infrastructure goals at Noble should be to specialize cities more. In warlord, you can get a fairly decent empire running with 5-6 cities containing all or most buildings and wonders. In Noble, you really want to start thinking about focusing cities on specific things. For example, I like to have two cities used primarily for military production. As a result, they should focus on production with a lot of mines and farms. In another city, I want to emphasize gold production so I build cottages and windmills and markets and banks. In another city I want to focus on research, with libraries, universities, and observatories. In still another city, it is important to produce culture. In another, I like to focus on Great People production. National wonders help to emphasize the specialization of cities. For example, in my primary military city, I like to have Heroic Epic and West Point. In my other military city, I like to have Ironworks and Red Cross. A lot of the time, the computer does not make decisions based on how you want your empire to look. Think about what improvements and build orders help you the most instead of just relying on the computer's suggestions. After all, the AI is simply using the computer's suggestions. How are you supposed to beat the AI if you are just emulating it?

    This also applies to technology. Your research should be focused. Military is obsolete? Time to go research some military techs. Don't have a religion? It's probably a good idea to go out and get one if at all possible. This is especially true when it comes to finally obtaining victory. For example, if I'm going for domination, I like to build my technology up to getting flight, assembly line and composites. For space race victories, I like to build towards the tech that allows space elevator. Feel free to skip techs that you don't need or have minimal use for in the short term. For example, in my current game, I am Bismark, and was given a good starting location on the coast by the mouth of a river with several health bonuses around. As a result, I found it possible to skip on picking up Animal Husbandry and some of the other health related resources.

    I would be remiss not to mention tech trading. Tech trading becomes increasingly important as the difficulty level increases. You should not feel wary trading at a loss on Noble or above. If you have a tech for 490 beakers, it is perfectly fine trading it away for a tech you need that only required 420 beakers of research. The AI trades techs, and it is possible to find yourself technologically backwards quickly if you don't trade as well.

    Expand intelligently. When you engage in war, do not simply capture and hold every city. Some of the AI cities will inherently be more valuable than others. Do not be wary of razing cities. This is especially true in early wars when you don't have the infrastructure or civics to support an expansive empire.

    Leave some wonders for the AI. I remember an excellent Civ3 War Academy article that talked about the dangers of Wonder-addiction, as it is called. Make a specific goal to go for a few wonders when you have the bonuses to produce them fast, you researched the tech before most of the other civs, and it helps you. Otherwise, leave it to the ai. Many wonders won't help as much as others depending on your strategy.

    Use your civics to your advantage. Don't just switch to a civic because you unlocked it. Understand how the civics change the face of your empire. To emphasize the use of specialists, it might be nice to run Representation, Caste System, Mercantilism, and Pacifism. Universal Suffrage is nice for the late-game push for a Space Race victory provided you have been building cottages. For the warmonger, running Police State, Vassalage and Theocracy seems to be a nice combination.

    The last, but perhaps most important, advice I can give is this: play to the strengths of your leader, UU, and terrain. Your civ begins with two traits that give several specific advantages. Make those advantages work for you in the game. If your leader is expansive, it might be worthwhile ignoring some of those early health related resources. Furthermore, every leader begins with two free starting techs. This combination gives you a head start on two tracks in the tech tree. Translate this into your advantage. For example, if you start with mysticism, it might be a good idea to go after an early religion and spread it rapidly. Otherwise, it might be a good idea to hold off and aim at one of the later religions. Each civ also has a distinct UU. If you're playing as Rome, it might be a good idea to hurry towards Iron Working to start building Praetorians. For the Russians, get military tradition as quickly as possible. Lastly, there is terrain. You decide the map at the beginning of the game, but it, as well as your personal terrain, should have a large impact on how you play. Terra map? It might be a good idea to head off to Optics and Astronomy. Same for continents. For a Pangaea map, it isn't as crucial to pick up those two techs quickly.

    So that's it. Those are the few tips, suggestions, and things I think about when I play a game. All in all, I just think that Noble requires just a little more focus than the earlier levels. Basically, that means you have to think a little more about each decision initially. After the first couple games, it becomes easier, and before you know it, Noble will be a piece of cake, and you'll be on these forums wondering how to make the jump from Noble to Prince in no time.

    With that said, I'm by no means a great player. So take it as it is. Hopefully it helps.

    -MM
     

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