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Help me destroy Japan on Large Islands

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by bakedgoods, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    Me and a friend (both avid deity SP players) have been playing a standard size, standard pace, large island map on immortal, essentially against each other with other civs and city states. We allow interaction with other civs and city states. He plays Japan, and a tradition opener usually with 3 cities before hacking down an AI. Knowing that I would (b/c I have) destroy him with Babylon, Korea, Venice, and Egypt I am not allowed to play these civilizations:mad:. I was wondering if anyone has any civs and strategies incorporating these game settings to destroy Japan? On a note he usually only goes after the AI with his samurai until he has zero fighters and then comes after me.
     
  2. JeSuisNapoleon

    JeSuisNapoleon Prince

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    Islands you say? what about barbarians?

    Crazy idea:
    You could try the ottomans. Its risky. This will work best if you are on separate islands. Can you get well promoted navy early one and just steamroll him? You could do it with frigates before he has an air force. range +1 would make it easier. You would need a large well promoted navy with lots of melee ships. You should only have to build one or two melee ships, the rest should be captured from barbs / AI / CS wherever you can.

    this would mean prioritizing naval unit techs a bit more and resources (iron especially).

    if his capitol is not coastal, then this strategy may fail :/
    but, japan has a coastal bias :)
     
  3. mikeville

    mikeville Chieftain

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    Doesn't this have taking England written all over it? What's not to love? Ships of the Line and Longbows...
     
  4. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    he always has a coastal capitol and, in fact on large islands i have yet to see him not make a city that isn't coastal, and yes we play with barbs so ottomans may work…

    and mikeville I have considered england, although I'm not familiar with a good way to play them, any suggestions? I would imagine it would involve beelining softls, when to do this? should i go tall to get there faster, or wide so that I have the production when i do?
    I have been experimenting with carthage and hawaii trying to get so wide that i will be able to massively outproduce his army…
    I will have to try ottomans and england...
     
  5. cpm4001

    cpm4001 Goggleman

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    Ottomans and England are two very solid choices, but have you considered The Netherlands? Since you have AIs you may be able to use the UA to bribe them to be your friend/attack the other human player using luxury resources, while the Sea Beggar is an awesomely powerful naval unit that can easily decimated coastal cities.
     
  6. hangman

    hangman almost-scientist

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    Not sure if it'll work on diety, but for island maps, I like taking Polynesia, racing for Compass and spamming a bunch of galleases and a couple of melee boats. You can let them hang out in the ocean where they're basically untouchable and fire away :mwaha:
     
  7. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    see below
     
  8. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    do you really feel that the extra retainment of 50% happiness would help win over AI? wouldn't that still be highly map dependent (I'll admit it would help with availability regardless of map) it just seems to me that england would be a better choice in that softls come at the same time as the sea beggar, care to comment?

    and again, knowing that I would be waiting this long (seems to be navigation with dutch and england, and even further with ottomans), and knowing I probably won't be attacked (hopefully no uber aggressive civs) and can get a solid start off the ground without those worries due to large islands map, would a liberty opener or tradition opener be better to get to this spot in the tech tree w/ ample production for my massive navy? or is this entirely game dependent do you think? I personally can do either, but have very little experience with a wide empire (liberty) on any other map type than pangea (or other highly less water oriented maps), and find that sometimes with tradition I get too caught up in the infrastructure and find my navy/army severely lacking to do anything but turtle when it calls for it. Comments, advice, suggestions, your die hard beliefs, etc. regarding this would be appreciated…
     
  9. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    wouldn't that only work if his cities were within 2 tiles of ocean squares?
     
  10. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    These are some very risky strategies. You could go with a growth civ (incans, Aztecs, Ethiopia, etc.) And try your hardest to grab the Great library I would say if you could finish it by at the most T45. Then bulb philosophy and grab the NC. That should give you a massive tech boost (up until the about the medieval era) and you could hit him with much more advanced units than his. Or you could go any good religious civ (preferably Byzantines, Mayan, Poland or Brazil) Grab collective rule, then finish piety (you should have Religion and Maybe enhanced it) you want to have atleast 2 belief buildings. aim for pagodas and mosques (+1 more building if you're the Byzantines) and grab the reformation belief "Sacred Sites" without that belief this strategy is down the pooper. Start spamming as many cities as you can fit on an island then move on to the next island and repeat. Keep using faith to buy as many faith buildings as possible. Just make as many cities as you happiness can handle (try to keep them at around 2-4 population just try to keep above -15 happiness) and get a trade route between you and him, get open borders, and if you have the most powerful religion I'm sure he won't mind adopting it. If every thing goes right you could win before T200!

    The first strategy you can just fall back to science and still out tech him. But if the second one fails you're screwed!
     
  11. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    how do you consider ethiopia a "growth" civ?, and on immortal the GL is usually built sub turn 40, so I'm not sure this would work although is completely viable on emperor and lower difficulties. As to the second, could work, but again probably not on immortal/diety where the AI masses huge army, and I assume that your army is severely lacking due to mass expansion?
     
  12. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    Yeah sorry about that I play on emperor (king for domination since I suck at it) :S so my input doesn't really matter! Oh and I meant "growth" as in High population tall empires. I know Ethiopia doesn't have any food or growth bonuses but it can really help defend a small science focused empire or if your friend does settle more cities you could still use Ethiopia's bonus for war mongering its surprisingly effective. And the ICS sacred sites is viable for higher difficults atleast from what I've seen as my friend recently won that way on T216 as Pacal on immortal. And as for military he said instead of scouts he just built the Mayan UU and he was able to defend against assyria when he declared war early game. +4 tourism per tiny city is ridiculous and +6 with the Byzantines is even better!

    I apologize for the confusion!
     
  13. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    Or you could play as everyone's favorite civ, Denmark! I imagine it would be extra humiliating to lose to the old Viking "menace" :D
     
  14. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    Incas. With mountains (observatories) and terrace farm, you'll be tech leader in late rennaissance, industrial era.
    Rush ballistic. Anti-Aircraft is a solid land unit. I use to build Mobile SAM and Rocket Lancher after Ballistic/Rockettery to conquer the map.
    Anti-Aircraft and Mobile SAM shut down Air stuffs and conquer cities.
     
  15. hangman

    hangman almost-scientist

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    Yes, although I'd bet that the chances of him forgoing a decent number of coastal cities is small. What's nice about having a few melee boats is that you can capture cities when they're weakened enough. If you can't grab most of his cities, just raze all the ones you can and it should be enough to give you a later-game advantage.
     
  16. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    Does Inca start bias actually give them enough mountains for this to be viable on large islands? Can't you (very unfortunately) still get a map with only a lot of hills and no mountains on large islands?
     
  17. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    I can. It's really rare.
    I try to move my warriors and settlers to found hills and mountains. Settle Cusco on T5 or T6. But on tiny islands it's really hard. Large islands are less risky.
     
  18. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    I've had to reroll a few times, but if you were to go for GL on immortal would you build a worker first or monument granary? and how would you micro manage your capital? obviously beeline writing and learning mining next for chopping is no brainer.
     
  19. bakedgoods

    bakedgoods Chieftain

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    I have managed to rush the GL, which I use to bulb philosophy. However, afterwards my capital is only size 3 as maxing out production tiles I have no food. Would you recommend building NC as fast as possible, thereby remaining size 3? And after finishing NC would you immediately pump out settlers or let capital grow?
     
  20. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    I would recommend building it as soon as you finish the GL. Even if it means going into stagnation if you can pull it off you should have around 27 beakers
     

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