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Help Me Do Fine: The Time-Hoppin' Adventures of General George Washington

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by The Oz-Man, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Hi-diddly-ho, Civ-a-rinos!

    Since I'm coming up on a bit of free time, I thought I'd get a thread up for the next game in the only game-learning series officially licensed by the American Dental Association to prevent the gum disease gingivitis: Help Me Verb Adverb (sure, why not). We're trying to help lower-level players improve their game and--with any luck--make the leap up to the higher difficulties. Last time, we were satisfied with okay; this time, we're shooting for the stars, and by the stars I mean "doin' just fine."

    Last time, we sank our teeth into a Hemispheres map with Sitting Bull and, after an initial chariot rush, had a difficult, peaceful game, with wonder-spamming neighbors and ambitious warmongers on all sides. This time, we're back to Normal-sized, Normal-speed Fractal, but also like last time, we're playing with some rules.

    Our leader this time is not a man of the ancient era. He is not in this time of his own volition. He has been summoned here by forces he does not understand. And with his own respect for these ancient peoples in mind, our fearless leader has created some rules for himself:

    1. No empire on the planet may die completely by our hand. We may take vassals, but we may not strike the killing blow. Preserving these ancient folks' history is critical.
    2. We may not build any World Wonders. This is, in part, as practice for a possible move to Emperor next time, but it fits the theme (Let the ancient people build their monuments and structures!). We can build National Wonders, and we can capture World Wonders, but we can't build any ourselves--not even for failgold.

    So who is our time-hoppin' warlord? I think he's up to the task. First in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his countrymen, and hopefully first in this game, it's Washington of the American Empire!



    As per our usual method, we met ol' oak-molars last game, where he was a valuable trading partner and ally, helping us claw our way back into the game after getting our butts handed to us by Pacal for centuries. He did well for himself--especially with a late-game war against Tokugawa--but he was never really a threat to win. This game, we hope to see George do a bit better for himself.

    The American leaders are all pretty interesting: great traits across the board, decent starting techs, and mostly worthless uniques. Expansive has almost become a stable in these games, and its cheap granaries and workers dovetail nicely with our other trait and my personal favorite, Charismatic. We'll be able to grow quickly into big city sizes, and vertical growth can support a lot. And, of course, Charismatic also makes prosecuting a war or three or eighteen a lot more fun, so maybe we'll have that as well.

    The bad part about our favorite dirty capitalists, though? The uniques. Navy SEALs are sort of nice--the March promotion with Marines can help those late-game coastal wars--but they come so late that they rarely matter. And Malls? Gold bonuses are nice (and extra :) through the late-game culture resources is okay as well), but Refrigeration is rarely a priority tech for me. I don't recall building a single Supermarket in recent memory.

    But we do have Fishing and Agriculture, a pair of decent food techs. Fishing is more situational, but Ag will always get some play.

    How about the start (after our initial warrior move)?



    The warrior was originally on the forested grass to the southwest, so I moved him onto the hill. All I have to say is... ooooh.

    This is a start with some options, I think. SIP looks strong, with inner-ring food, and wet corn means we have a second city within shouting distance. On the other hand, we also have two plains hills where we can settle, and both will make pretty decent sites. The one where the warrior is standing will give us a food resource we can use right away, which makes heading over to Hunting before AH to get those pachyderms online more inviting. We can of course use a second city to grab the pigs and cows, and we should be able to get a strong city out of that site as well. The plains hill to the NW keeps the animals and the floodplains at the cost of the gold. I'm less inclined to go that direction for that reason.

    Almost forgot--strategy! Well, early jumbos and gold with Charismatic mean that smileys aren't going to be a problem for a little while, so I'm tempted to get straight down to brass tacks and beeline the war techs. Worker techs into Writing, chop out a Library or two, then wait for our first scientist to bulb Long Division while we tech HBR (all of this with incidental stops at Mysticism and Pottery and other useful techs). Then, if we've got a good target of opportunity, let the elepult massacre commence!

    If we SIP, should we go Hunting first? It's tempting given that it lowers the price of AH, and we can farm the floodplains for growth if we have to wait for the chance to get the moocows and piggies going.

    As always, please put map spoilers inside the proper tags. Save is attached. Thanks, guys; let's have fun!
     
  2. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    I wonder if you are overstating the importance of inner-ring food; it really doesn't matter in the capital. In fact, one might reasonably prefer outer ring food on the grounds that it is easier to swap to another city.

    It is a turn quicker to improve, and it does make some of the grow-to-size-two options easier. But in general, meh.

    I'd be more inclined to go that direction, actually. The pastures are second ring. The capital can make use of them right away, but a second city would need to wait for a border pop. On the other hand - corn and gold are inner ring of the eastern hill - a second city there would be awesome right away.

    I'd SIP - I think it would be more fun to get the gold on line at size 3 than to have the extra hammer.

    Probably not? You want to have AH by turn 15, and Mining by turn 25. I'm not sure that leaves you enough time for Hunting. You need to open the game and look at the beaker costs of the techs to math it out.

    Edit: much more probably not if the settler is going to be ready in 12 turns rather than 15.
     
  3. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    i like playing george since i like expansive and i like charismatic, makes for strong early game.

    would i move for wet corn? that is a very good question... (I talk here about settling 1NE not on PH while killing floood plain)

    I like the 1NE spot since it has both strongest tiles visible (6F1C corn and 4F2H1C cows), while it retains the gold and ivory.
    the only thing you lose out is the flood plain

    Growint to size 7-8 in early BC stages would prove great here and most important possible.

    I would leave the pigs for another city probably.

    Take pottery for granary to quickly grow the cap. you will probably need 1-2 grass farms too.
     
  4. ShengWuLien

    ShengWuLien Warlord

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    Great start!

    Like VoU, I'd be tempted by the plains hill to the NW. It makes room for an awesome second city claiming gold and wet corn, and gives you extra productions right away. Seems like you'd lose fresh water health bonus, but you're Expansive so that's not too bad.

    I like how your Washington is a respecter of ancient cultures. The real GW would of course have enslaved everyone and made them work on his plantation...;)
     
  5. zig_zac

    zig_zac Chieftain

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    Oh, he will do it to. Everybody is running Slavery at some point:(

    As to settling, I just want to say I have no idea, what to do:lol:
     
  6. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Oh, the real Washington of course crushed his enemies and the local natives and anyone else who looked at him the wrong way, but he didn't have to risk a temporal paradox that leads to a world in which King George III lives forever as a cyborg and hamburgers eat people. Don't worry; "don't wipe out the natives" doesn't mean we have to play nice. It just means that Feudalism might become more important than it usually is. :devil:
     
  7. Freakz

    Freakz Chieftain

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    Amazing map :p
    also my advice is :
    Spoiler :
    SIP, let the corn feed your 2nd city
     
  8. OneLeggedRhino

    OneLeggedRhino King

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    Civ-a-rhinos? That's me!

    I like SIP. Sure, you'll need early AH, but with the gold, you can tech it quickly.
     
  9. ShengWuLien

    ShengWuLien Warlord

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    Hey Oz, I played a few turns from your initial save.

    What are your views on shadow games, spoilers, etc?
     
  10. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Just put 'em in spoilers.

    My mom just called and said the nine greatest words a father can hear ("Do you mind if we take the kids tonight?"), so I may play the first round tonight. SIP looks like the way to go. Thanks, gang!
     
  11. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Wha???? With pigs and cows are you really going to wait until after the gold mine is constructed?
     
  12. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Chapter 1
    Chronologically Displaced

    General George Washington woke up from uneasy dreams to find himself standing in an open field in the summertime surrounding by loincloth-clad, club-wielding brutes.

    "What in blazes?" he shouted, pulling himself to his feet. "Where are my soldiers? Where is my cabin? Where--where am I?"

    One of the strange men cocked his head, scratching his lice-infested head. "Where am I?"

    "Yes!" Washington said. "Where... am... I? Me! George Washington!"

    "Wash-ying-tun?" another one repeated.

    "Yes, Washington!"

    The brutes turned to one another and nodded, laying their clubs down on the grass. "Wash-ing-ton! Wash-ing-ton!"

    Amidst their chants, they made camp. For the first time in history, they were prepared to settle in their own village. The strange visitor was a sign, and they named the city after the bizarre words that he uttered.



    (Yes, I went with SIP. After thinking about it, I decided I like the city too much to risk doing worse elsewhere.)

    It did not take long for General Washington to ascertain the gravity of his situation. He was not in Valley Forge. He was not anywhere. Somehow he had found himself in an ancient time, thousands of years earlier. The years passed around him quickly, and the general did what he could to the native folks, teaching them the English language and working with them in the basics of Animal Husbandry.

    The years passed beside Washington at a breakneck pace. Meanwhile, several of the brutes scouted the area surrounding Washington, discovering another camp much like theirs. General Washington was dispatched to meet their leader, and Washington was shocked to discover his identity...



    "...you are Suryavarman II?" he repeated.

    "The very same," the man answered.

    "Of... the Khmer."

    "Indeed."

    "But you lived eons ago!"

    The Khmer warlord chuckled. "No, no. You must be thinking of my father, Suryavarman I."

    General Washington lay down in his cot for several days after that.

    Life in these times was brutal and difficult, especially for the natives.



    Bears and lions consumed two of Washington's exploring warriors, meaning that cartography had become a challenge. Still, the city of Washington pressed on, training new soldiers to replace the fallen.

    In the meantime, scientific advancement continued--such as it was. Animal Husbandry and Mining gave way to basic cart-making.



    Pleased with the natives' progress, General Washington began training them in basic metallurgy.

    In the near east, meanwhile, General Washington's scouts encountered another ancient leader of the Far East. Having only recently come to terms with the presence of the Khmer, Washington was even more shocked to find that he was somehow situated between Indochina and... Mongolia.



    "The Genghis Khan?" Washington said.

    "Is there another?" the Khan roared. "Because I will destroy him!"

    A scout soon arrived from the north, this one clad in red. His leader was unknown to the general; however, his nation was. The hardy scout announced that he was from Russia, kin to the warlord Josef Stalin.



    "Wait!" Stalin said. "You are... George Washington?"

    "Yes, General George Washington," Washington said.

    "The General George Washington? From America?" Stalin repeated.

    "...yes?" Washington said quizzically.

    The look of confusion on the Russian warlord's face as he left seemed strangely familiar.

    More secrets arrived...



    ...but none of the precious metals were to be found!



    General Washington, however, was shocked to find that his scouts had missed an entire area to the southeast in their slipshod scouting! Warriors were immediately recalled to the area to see if anything could be discovered.

    Washingtonians had completed their study of the hunt, allowing them to pen the elephants to the north.



    General Washington realized that protection for his people was important, and he envisioned a future army led by elephant-mounted troops in the vein of Hannibal of Carthage. Such a force under his leadership would be powerful indeed; this new America would simply need to survive long enough for it to happen.

    General Washington, however, was not content with merely leading a city. No, he longed to see the ambitious souls of his city set out to found a city of their own. Hearing tales of a mighty port town from Washington's own time, a band of settlers struck east, found the biggest body of water they could, and called their new village New York.



    (Washington should be able to carry us commercially for a while with all of that riverside land, and I plan to run scientists there ASAP to get Math online. New York, though, will be a production powerhouse in the early game in particular, probably the foundation of our war machine.)

    The final lesson that the natives were to learn was a simple one. American Mysticism was not founded on ancient spirits and mythical creatures, but on pure national pride. These were not mere brutes anymore; they were Americans. They would be whipped into shape in no time.



    More would have to be learned, and General Washington was at a loss for what to teach his new soldiers next.



    Pottery would allow for the storage of grain, allowing Washington and New York to grow to new heights. On the other hand, Writing would allow for the immediate construction of a Library in Washington, speeding up the pace of research exponentially. General Washington felt compelled toward Writing, but he decided to wait before he made any rash moves.

    He pondered the map...



    The Khmer encroached to the northwest, and they possessed their own store of copper. A war to retrieve it would be fruitless; however, another source of the precious metal lay to the southeast. A settler was prepared to embark from Washington to begin a new village, one fed by the nearby Deer (1SW of the copper gets both in the first ring, so that's likely what I'll do. Another city on that snow tile near the furs will rope in all three and grab some fish with a border pop).

    A Scout would soon be created to continue to move north; however, General Washington knew that--if the Khmer continued to violate his borders--war would be inevitable. When should it come? A quick war with Axes to secure the nearby Copper would be possible; however, a stronger play may be to consolidate his empire, settle a few nearby cities, and wait for his War Elephants to arrive before descending on the Khmer forces.

    With all of this planning, General Washington considered one thing: he somehow knew that wiping out Suryavarman would be catastrophic. How could he prosecute a war and still leave the Khmer alive? He pondered as he attached the save...
     
  13. zig_zac

    zig_zac Chieftain

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    Well, that is most fortunate, that those native brutes saw Washington's potential as a leader. Maybe it has something to do with being charismatic. He had fine uniform, which is a great potential to make loin clothes.

    I would tech Pottery, cottage that FP in capital, and some grassland along the river. More importantly you need to whip, so Granaries would be of help. Even those Libraries have to be whipped probably. And Axes for barb defense.
    Writing>>>Math is the long way to go, so it's better to get Pottery right away.

    I like the second city placement. Before settling those Furs scout to the North along the river, maybe there will be some other good site.

    Definitely Elephants, not Axes. Though maybe you could become friends with Sury? Because it's a little harder to become friends with Genghis. I would be afraid of him also.
    Fortunately Stalin is somewhere behind them, maybe he will complicate their lives a little?
     
  14. ShengWuLien

    ShengWuLien Warlord

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    Unless there's a passage up the river to the north, you're boxed-in. After the copper/deer city there's a kinda useless fur city (there's fish there?) and maybe something around the spices.

    Your close borders with Sury are a problem already, and Genghis is within spitting distance...

    On the other hand, you have ivory, commerce, and lots of forests for chopping. With CHA and several happy resources, whipping will be easy.

    Looks like GW might need to put this politically-correct moral relativism stuff to one side for a minute and show someone why the Redcoats came to fear the Patriot war elephants so much.

    So..Pottery->Writing, then you'll need Masonry, Math, Horseback Riding, and Construction.
     
  15. ShengWuLien

    ShengWuLien Warlord

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    Oh, and New York will be a fantastic production city, I'm sure you already realized that.

    If you can get a library and run a couple scientists early enough in Washington then you can maybe bulb Math. If not, you can bulb Alpha if you like, because I doubt this gaggle of useless AIs will be teching it anytime soon.

    Edit: I should read your plans more carefully. Way ahead of me on both those points.
     
  16. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    I've had a chance to sleep on my plans a bit, so here's what I have in mind.

    Tech path: Pottery -> Writing -> Masonry -> HBR -> (bulb) Maths at some point in here -> Construction -> Unleash the fury! Pottery and Writing can, again, probably be switched in this plan if you all think that's wise.

    We can use a quick war to clean up our borders a bit and take Sury's capital, trying to drive him as far west of the river as we can without killing him outright. In the meantime, the tech path will be towards Feudalism (probably heading through Meditation and Priesthood to open up a later Philosophy bulb). If we do (as I suspect we might) get cut off altogether to the north, then Currency will probably be a later priority than usual due to our small number of cities and the gold in Washington.

    So that's the plan as I see it right now: aim for subjugating Sury as quickly as possible, then probably Genghis. With any luck Joe will build something nice for us by the time it's time to take the fight to him.

    What do you guys think? Does that sound like a decent path? Again, keep in mind--as per the rules, we won't be able to outright kill Sury or Genghis, which is why the Feudalism beeline is so tempting to me.
     
  17. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    I fiddled with this awhile as well, and there's no doubt you have to beat back Sury or Genghis. You can probably get to 6 cities without doing so if you hustle, but would be awfully tough to avoid a backstab by one of those two anyway. So yeah, I'd probably try to take Sury close to our as quickly as possible...

    I wouldn't necessarily focus on early feudalism - if you knock one of them down to one city, they'll be a useless vassal anyway.
     
  18. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    I like New York a lot. Well played.

    One thing you might have been looking at earlier, is the possibility of boosting a third city off of the corn. The idea being that cows + hills will chew up most of the early happy cap, so you might be able to lone the corn away for a while.

    (This is complicated in this position by the gold/ivory/charismatic trait. With the higher happy cap, you will need the corn pretty soon

    Because of this, I would have prioritized exploring the NORTH east (along the river) over the south east (toward the tundra). "Settle toward green".


    On your research path: I'm not sure I understand why you thought the Wheel was urgent.
     
  19. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    I settled on the plains hill, but after scouting, I think SIP would have been better here for sure. New York makes for a really nice production city, and all those trees around Washington coupled with EXP means a fast chopped army!
     
  20. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    well I did shadow it a bit too and still can't agree with not settling for the wet corn ;-)

    I settled 1 NE improvements went corn, gold, grass cow, techs mining, hunting, ah

    got constr+hbr in reasonable time (something like 700 BC), used even alphabet for building research.

    overall plan was obviously cats+WE's, when i started military buildup against sury some other AI decided that it wants to be the target out of the blue ;-).
     

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