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Help Me Do Well: Master Willem in Imperial Lands (yes, Emperor level!)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by The Oz-Man, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Hi-diddly-ho, Civ-a-rinos, Civ-a-rinas, and Civ-a-rhinos alike!

    Our latest foray into Helping Me Verb Adverbs all over the place finds us in uncharted territory. The settings are largely the same--Fractal map, Normal speed, Normal size. Our goals are the same--helping lower-level players survive and thrive in harsher and harsher environments while doing an unhealthy amount of creative writing devoted to a stupid video game about tanks blowing up guys with bows. But this time, we've made a major change. This time, we can't just do fine. We have to do well.

    This is Emperor, baby, and a whole lot of people are going to be waiting to cave our skulls in.

    Last time, we rode Washington through a rough start hemmed in by backstabbing jerkwad neighbors, beelined Construction, and proceeded to use combined Elephants and siege to mop the floor with a whole lot of saps--all without building a single world wonder. That was part of our rules, but this time, I'm not going to tie my own hands. This will be my first-ever Emperor game, and I won't rule anything out.

    As per my usual rule, the good ol' D6 determined our leader from our list last time. He's no stranger to the series, but unlike frequent Help Me Verb Adverb guests like Saladin and Isabella, he's taken a pounding literally every time. It's the flyin' Dutchman himself, Willem van Oranje of the Dutch Empire!

    Spoiler :


    Ol' Bill has a lot of history in the series. In our very first game, he succumbed to Shaka's Impi fury and was relegated to the pages of history in no time flat. Last time, he was an early ally, founder of our Jewish faith, and later got his head caved in by elephants and cannons. So it's safe to say that I'm hoping we can break the poor guy's losing streak this time.

    Much like his predecessor George, Willem comes into play with powerful traits (two we haven't seen so far--yay for no Expansive leader this time!) and sort of middling uniques. Creative is wonderful for free border pops, high-pressure settling, cheap Libraries, and not having to worry about having food in the first ring all the time. Financial will power up our cottages, our coastal tiles, and any nice luxury resources we have on our hands.

    The uniques are more situational. East Indiamen are powered-up Galleons with greater strength and carrying capacity as well as the ability to bypass closed borders much like Caravels--pretty good, but mostly situational. Dikes are Levees that add their hammer bonuses to ocean and coastal tiles that, while better on Financial, are still rarely worked--though they will make our Moai city a powerhouse under the right circumstances.

    We also enter with Fishing and Agriculture, and we'll be able to exploit one of these techs with our start!

    Spoiler :


    A few thoughts.

    1. This is going to be a really nice Bureau capital, especially if we grab Calendar first. One thing I really like is that the first corn will irrigate the second at that point.
    2. That said, I still hate starting with Calendar resources, much like we did with Sitting Bull.
    3. We're awfully close to the jungle. The warrior should probably move toward the southeast to see if we'll get anything by settling on the plains hill (though SiP looks strong).
    4. With immediate usable food, I'll likely do a BW beeline right from the start, then see where things end up from there. The capital will be a production powerhouse in the early game, but I'd like to let it work some cottages down the road once we sort out the smileys.

    Save is attached. As always, put shadow discussions in spoilers plzkthx. Looking forward to a good time with you wacky lot as always!
     
  2. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Simple solution....settle on the bananas

    It's an okay bureau cap, especially production wise, but I would consider another place if it availalble. This city might make a good HE cities at some point.
     
  3. s.bernbaum

    s.bernbaum Mostly lurking

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    Perhaps I am misreading your thought #1, but you can't irrigate the second corn until Civil Service, not at Calendar.
     
  4. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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  5. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Wow - that's a lot of production right there.

    It might be tempting to try one of obsolete's super-everything-cities.
     
  6. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    I wouldn't abandon all those grass hills... better cottage bananas and run for monarchy :)

    that jungle to north is worrying... it can happen that you will find you will be with not many good sites around until IW.
     
  7. cseanny

    cseanny Emperor

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    I'd say settle 2 quick cities to the east and west and place them in such a manner that they can both work 4 cottages while your Capital grows/scientist/settler/worker pump, etc. I'd opt to FARM those bananas and share food with 2nd or 3rd city.

    Beeline to Monarchy can be very strong, especially if you get some wacky map with very little happy resources. Who knows.....possible Oracle/Monarchy or depending on when SH goes maybe even a better free tech??
     
  8. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I think it nets to about the same, V, and I think there is a another riverside grasshill in the fog....and even it has jungle there's plenty of workable hills for the cap until IW. I think the worker bonus is worth the move. It's only a loss of 2food really, which would not come until much later.
     
  9. zig_zac

    zig_zac Chieftain

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    ^^^^

    Farm bananas. Definitely.
     
  10. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    well i tend to look at riverside bananas, sugar in the capital at T0 as flood plain, it has some merit to settle for 3f city tile, but I still would hold onto my plan ;-)

    those corns give +7f, cottage bananas is another +1f making it +8, which is more then in usual start.

    definitely NOT farm bananas...either settle on them or cottage them.
     
  11. cseanny

    cseanny Emperor

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    Spoiler :
    Wait til you see land around you then make decision ;). 100% FARM the nana's. IMO a drastically bad play settling or cottage FOR SURE ;).
    Duh!! ;)

    Edit:
    Spoiler :
    In the shadow game, in the early 1100ADs your capital is at 19 pop, working 11 Towns and 5hills and with Oxford around 401:science: at 80% slider (20% culture for happy). So I think the capital is fine if you SIP.
     
  12. K.Murx

    K.Murx Warlord

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    You are underestimating the uniques. If there is water, they are among the best in the game.

    East Indiamen ensure naval superiority once you have Astronomy, and usually beyond. They make naval invasions very easy - no need to worry about borders, no need for an escort, and you need less of them because they can carry more.

    Dikes will jumpstart the industrial age in coastal cities. Coupled with some factories and forges, production skyrockets compared to the AI. If you can convert that production into units at parity with the AI, you can simply overrun an otherwise equal AI.
     
  13. cbucks

    cbucks Warlord

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    Move warrior se. Sip or sw on ph. If you settle on bananas, your Capitol will be jungle covered
     
  14. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    I should explain what I mean by situational--since I've been doing fractal maps, they may not even come into play. Last game I barely reached Steam Power (and I built one levee in a city that honestly didn't use it much), and I didn't have to research Astronomy at all to win. That may happen again, but it's also possible that I'm mostly isolated or have a watery start, in which case they will kick all kinds of butt.

    So yeah, by "situational" I mean either I won't use them at all or they will totally rule the school. :p
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    You clearly have jungle to the north so I don't like settling on the banana tile.

    Oddly while the food is excellent and you're riverside I don't like too many cottages here; you'll be hard pressed to work them instead of good alternative tiles that other cities might not have.

    Consider tile-sharing the corns and/or bananas, and only go calendar before civil service if that gives you more luxuries (very probably this close to jungle). SIP gives a tremendous production potential rarely seen. This capitol can do it all so use it to cover whatever you lack elsewhere.
     
  16. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Yay, I like this series :) I suppose you already know the thread title is wrong, though?
     
  17. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Warrior SE reveals...

    Spoiler :


    Not much that's worth losing an easily irrigated corn over, I don't think. Nearby marble is pretty nice, though! We could make a run at the Oracle, but the Great Library or the Mausoleum might be safer. In any case, it's an opportunity--hopefully we can build a good city around it.

    So SiP looks like the best option. If this is indeed going to be a production city, what do you all recommend doing with that water before SP-era watermills and workshops? Just farms to help feed the mines? Still run some cottages to take advantage of Financial riverside madness, then plow them over later? The Warrior seems to have revealed at least one decent commerce site right in our own backyard? This is a pretty strong capital, and I don't want to squander it like I did in the Isabella game, so I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts.
     
  18. cbucks

    cbucks Warlord

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    I'd move onto the ph and farm the bannana.

    Grow onto cottages and then once you hit happy cap work the mines and horse archer rush someone.
     
  19. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    So you all know, this isn't dead before it's started; I've just run head-first into the brick wall that is A Big Stack of Final Portfolios to Grade. The round is played and is fairly short, though. Hoping to post it tomorrow.

    One nice thing I'll preview, though, is that the neighbors I've met so far are--in my experience--pretty squishy. To avoid spoilers for potential shadows, I'll say that they're...

    Spoiler :
    ...Hammurabi and Elizabeth. Thoughts?
     
  20. cbucks

    cbucks Warlord

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    The first one, not so much. The second, definately
     

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