Help Me Get Better on Immortal!

[dankok8]

I've been playing the game on and off for the last few years and I'm a borderline Emperor/Immortal player. My last game on Emperor I was building the Manhattan Project while other AI's were around Gunpowder but Immortal is more challenging. I can win easily with the likes of Rome or Inca or on Pangaea maps with nearby strategic resources where it's just war war war but my empire management needs work. On tougher starts or when the situation calls for less war, it goes a lot worse.

Anyways, I want to run a game with your help guys.

Immortal
Continents
Standard
Normal
No Huts
No Events
Choose Religions



Leader is our dear religious fanatic Isabella. Or my mistress Izzy as I like to call her.

I like her traits Spiritual and Expansive. UU is a Cuirassier that is immune to Pikes so that's pretty good. UB is a Castle with +5 XP for siege which sounds awesome but does it obsolete with Economics? The starting techs are awful. Mysticism and Fishing may be the worst possible option for an inland start?

Anyways I'm thinking SIP and start with researching Agri.

Please don't hesitate to play along with me but put any sensitive information in spoilers!

 

[lymond]

Citadel does obsolete with Economics. Conks are awesome. Top 5 UU imo.. Bonus against counter and don't forget they get defensive bonus too like Imortals - both can fortify - only horsie units that do. Plus Curs are top units for fighting on high levels.

Start appears to be straight forward. Warrior move isn't going to help much here, so with obvious coast to E I see no reason to move him that way...I'd head 1SW with idea of moving toward AIs faster.

Lostsa forests with what appears to be one hidden hill in the SW. 1NE of Warrior a likely resource of some kind.

I'd settle in place. AG as you say but select/deselect tech for the first 5 turns of the game.

Nice food..wet corn and sheep. I'm torn on AH next though...depends on what you see...sheep a strong tile but earlier chops may be better especially when consider possible idle worker turns.

 

[dankok8]

Citadel does obsolete with Economics. Conks are awesome. Top 5 UU imo.. Bonus against counter and don't forget they get defensive bonus too like Imortals - both can fortify - only horsie units that do. Plus Curs are top units for fighting on high levels.

Start appears to be straight forward. Warrior move isn't going to help much here, so with obvious coast to E I see no reason to move him that way...I'd head 1SW with idea of moving toward AIs faster.

Lostsa forests with what appears to be one hidden hill in the SW. 1NE of Warrior a likely resource of some kind.

I'd settle in place. AG as you say but select/deselect tech for the first 5 turns of the game.

Nice food..wet corn and sheep. I'm torn on AH next though...depends on what you see...sheep a strong tile but earlier chops may be better especially when consider possible idle worker turns.

So when Citadels and just regular Castles obsolete, all the effects of those buildings are gone?

I heard about the select/deselect trick and I've used it in my last few games but what exactly does it do? And why not keep using it after 5 turns?

Thanks for your input.

 

[lymond]

Yep (can't remember if castle disappears or keeps culture or something...I so very rarely build these things but you will lose defensive bonus and in case of Citadel the XP)

It does two things really. First, you don't commit to a decision on the tech until more tiles revealed in 5 turns. Granted often the first tech is pretty straight forward based on the resource, but what if you already start with the needed tech. Second, meeting AIs that know the tech gives a small bonus on said tech, so you may meet and AI or two in 5 turns.

 

[Harv]

Between Cathy and Izzy, we're getting all the attention!

can't remember if castle disappears or keeps culture or something

I actually built one in my Perikles game. I can go look and check.

 

[Harv]

(can't remember if castle disappears or keeps culture or something...I so very rarely build these things but you will lose defensive bonus and in case of Citadel the XP)

Quoted again. I looked up my game. Here is what I found.

Spoiler :

What is your take on this?

 

[Harv]

I heard about the select/deselect trick and I've used it in my last few games but what exactly does it do? And why not keep using it after 5 turns?

I successfully used this trick in my Perikles game. It turned out on Turn 5, I met Napoleon, who happened to have Agriculture, which is what I was trying to research. I was at 9 beakers per turn, for a total of 45. The free beaker gets us to 50. We get a small bonus, because we were researching something an AI already has. I think it is 5%, or 2 beakers.

So on Turn 6, we had 62 beakers towards Agriculture instead of 60, for a net gain of 2. We seemed to lose one of those beakers transitioning over to Mining, but managed to finish that project exactly.

I was tracking at the time.

Spoiler :

Turn
0 0 9 1 10 10
1 10 9 1 20 20
2 20 9 1 30 30
3 30 9 1 40 40
4 40 9 3 52 52
5 52 9 1 62 62
6 62 9 1 72 72
7 72 9 1 82 82
8 82 9 1 92 92
9 92 9 1 102 94 8 93 Agriculture
10 8 9 1 18 18
11 18 9 1 28 28
12 28 9 1 38 38
13 38 9 1 48 48
14 48 9 1 58 58
15 58 9 1 68 68
16 68 9 1 78 78 0 78 Mining

 

[Qactus]

Should you go down the Citadel route, you can delay Economics and still get the XP bonus on cannons, machine guns and artillery.
Infantry would not be accessible, but Rifles and Grenadiers are. And with 10XP siege it is less important which unit wipes the floor after them.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Nice start. I am not sure about AH, pasture brings only +1 compared to a provisory farm. There is so much forest and the character has some additional benefit from BW (civic change w/o anarchy) and Pottery (cheap granaries). AH leads nowhere at this point. Also, early cottages could be of some help to catch up in research. I would go AGR/MIN/BW/TW/POTT. Unless scouting reveals more AH resoucres...

 

[Tobiyogi]

regarding the citadel, this is from a former NC game with Isabella

Short notice on the citadel. I was running and old Isabella save game where I was close to Economics. Built a citadel in the capitol and every new siege unit came out with 8 XP (barracks + citadel). After having discovered Economics, I did the same and every new siege unit came out with 3 XP. So the UB becomes obsolete very soon. Strange thing was that even after Economics, the info text from hovering above a trebuchet told me it would gain +8 XP, but eventually it came out with only 3 XP.

 

[lymond]

Nice start. I am not sure about AH, pasture brings only +1 compared to a provisory farm. There is so much forest and the character has some additional benefit from BW (civic change w/o anarchy) and Pottery (cheap granaries). AH leads nowhere at this point. Also, early cottages could be of some help to catch up in research. I would go AGR/MIN/BW/TW/POTT. Unless scouting reveals more AH resoucres...

Agree. Farm the sheeps. BW first should lower the amount of idle worker turns here substantially as well.

 

[dankok8]

^^ The advice on farming the sheep and beelining BW after Agri makes sense to me. Thanks for your input guys.

Last question about Castle/CItadel becoming obsolete:

If I already researched Eco and a medieval stack (non-Gunpowder) attacks my city, do the Castle defensive bonuses still apply?

I never build Castles usually but +5 XP for siege sounds awesome to the extent that I think I'm willing to really delay Eco. We'll see what the map dictates though.

 

[lymond]

Eco eliminates wall.castle defenses. Only thing castle keeps is its culture.

Honestly, I think you are better served focusing on the power of the Conk first with Lizzy at this level, unless you don't have access to horses in which case going for a Lib/Steel/citadel option is good.

 

[dankok8]

Eco eliminates wall.castle defenses. Only thing castle keeps is its culture.

Honestly, I think you are better served focusing on the power of the Conk first with Lizzy at this level, unless you don't have access to horses in which case going for a Lib/Steel/citadel option is good.

Yea. The crappy thing about the UU and UB is that they kind of come at the same time and require different tech paths. I'm big fan of cannons though. I expect I won't be running away with tech at Immortal so lots of those CR 3 babies can even let me kill Rifles if I have to.

 

[lymond]

I'm a much bigger proponent of mounted warfare. Curs or Conks can be achieved relatively quicker than cannons. With good early play, Curs should be very productive for you for quite some time.

 

[Harv]

We are both playing games with civilizations that love horses!

UN over here never comes into play until the game is won, stopped short of domination, just to win the space race with the UB.

 

[dankok8]

I played the first 15 turns (till 3400 BC).

Spoiler :

SIP and set the city to build a worker. Used select/deselect for Agri for first five turns.

Not sure it did anything and on turn 6 we met:



And on turn 11:



Our heroic Warrior killed a lion but needs to chill here to heal and there is a Bear down there to stop us from exploring the coast to the SE. Both Gilga and Qin came from the west so we are definitely on this little peninsula here. Other than a nice city spot with FP + Stone and Corn down south it's a whole lot of desert around us. And there is a filler city with Crabs up north but that can wait right?

.

I'm two turns away from Mining. While the worker was building I worked the Sheep tile with 3F 1C which didn't slow the Worker but accelerated research. There was no way for a 12-turn worker.

Anyways Qin and Gilga are already pleased with each other which is kind of annoying and both are Pro. I stopped as the Worker was done. Gonna send it to farm the Corn.

 

[Harv]

I think if you met Gilgamesh one turn sooner, then you would have won 2 beakers. You would see your beaker count on Turn 6 at 62 instead of 60.

....You might also have been running 10 commerce a couple of turns and I don’t remember if the sheep tile is 3 food 1 commerce.

Then you would have been at 68 instead of 66.

 

[dankok8]

I think if you met Gilgamesh one turn sooner, then you would have won 2 beakers. You would see your beaker count on Turn 6 at 62 instead of 60.

....You might also have been running 10 commerce a couple of turns and I don’t remember if the sheep tile is 3 food 1 commerce.

Then you would have been at 68 instead of 66.

Yea Sheep is 3F 1C. I worked that tile because it still gives 3 F/H for the worker but it also has 1C to help research.

 

[dankok8]

Spoiler :

Just looked at my own map and saw the Ivory. Maybe it's worth settling if the sites around it have food. Gotta explore that more and the coast down south.