Help me learn how to play!

And KMadCandy is right

KMadCandy, thank you so much for joining this. After hearing how you make the AI play nicely, and given my experience with how mean they are to me I am glad to have you here!

this is shaping up to be my favorite thread ever! just look at what i get to quote so far *giggle*

I've never liked Whipping, but that might be a good plan.

Yeesh. I hate being patient when it comes to the first wonder, but you guys all do know more than I do, so I will take your advice and wait.

yeah whipping takes trial/error to learn how to use the right way. i'm still noobish at it but it's very very helpful. you're charismatic, so you have a higher happy cap in your cities even without monuments. whipping is a way to take advantage of that, so yay! total sidetrack--what helped me learn how to best crack that whip was playing a game as monty, and then another where i picked a leader i actually like (jaguars have tacky outfits) where i altered the .xml to give myself sacrificial altars as my UB. so if that is an area you want to improve in, that's an idea for a future game in your spare (not revealed in public necessarily *giggle*) time.

i won't be giving advice on the timing of wonders. as i said, i hardly ever play as industrious, and add in i don't know the AI timing on noble, so i'll leave that to the experts in that area :). i do like the great wall, you mentioned the barbs, i like it for the GGs too. it only stops barbs entering on your continent of course, but the double GG points in your cultural borders count worldwide. so even on your continents map that part would help if fights come to you, even after you've expanded across the waters. just a thought.
 
Okay! Here is the next 20 turns.

21 Paris grows to size two. I've MM'd it to have the Work Boat be done in 5 turns, with no growth. After the boat, I will switch to another worker, as xanadux suggested. After Bob completes his road, I will start working on roads to the Piggly Wigglies (not Sheep) up to the north, as per Pawelo's suggestion. I've also begun moving Dora back south to check out that missed Tribal Village.

22 Bob finishes his road to the corn, and begins his road to the Piggly Wigglies. Dora discovers two! sources of silk.

23 Dora discovers yet another! source of silk. I think I know where my fifth city is going...

24
25
26 My Work Boat (who, as promised, does not have a cute name due to his short life span) has been built, and will fish the first set of clams. Work will begin on a second Worker (8 turns before chopping).

27 Bronze Working is discovered. As expected, there is no visible copper anywhere near Paris. I almost never get Copper near my capital. Occasionally Iron, though. Mysticism will come in 6 turns, Masonry in 8. I'm going to take xanadux's suggestion and go for Mysticism first, for the Stone resource to the north. After that, Masonry for the Great Wall and Pyramids. Bob finishes his road to the north, and moves to the hill to the west for chopping (again, per Pawelo's suggestion). Switching to Slavery. Just a note for my Settler games (and for any Newbies who might be lurking). I would never go for Slavery. I hate the concept of killing my population for production. On Settler, you can get away with this. However, I'm beginning to think that you can't on Noble.

28 Order is restored. Bob begins chopping down trees. He will be done in 3 turns. Now, another note for my past stuff and for any Newbies. When you want to use forests to hurry production, don't build the improvement you want underneath along with chopping the forest. It will take longer. Simply chop the forest, it's quicker. Again, on Settler, we can get away with just hitting Mine (which will both remove the forest and mine the tile underneath in 8 turns). On Noble, probably not.
29 Bob presents the Digitus Impudicus to a Lion.
30
31 Bob finishes chopping down Forests, and the next Worker will be done in 1 turn.
32 Worker (Wendy) complete. Settler begun. Both Workers are chopping the Forest immediately north of Paris. Dora shakes down some villagers for 51 gold.

33 Bob and Wendy complete chopping the Forest down, and move east.
34 Mysticism is discovered. Now going for Masonry (7). I realize I forgot to post how long the Settler would take. As of this turn (after chopping down a forest) it will take 8 turns.

35
36 Dora discovers Deer and Tundra to the south.
37
38 Bob and Wendy finish chopping down a forest, and move south.
39 Bob and Wendy start chopping.
40 Settler is built. The Settlers will also not receive cute names, due to their short lifespans.

For some reason, I can't find my two screenshots that I took. However, here is the save. My plan is to continue following Xanadu's initial advice, and start on a second Worker. After that a Granary.


I will admit that I'm very worried about not having any military to speak of. On Settler, I've have started toward Archery by now, and started towards putting Archers in Paris and probably my second city. Barbarian Invaders can't be too far away.
Marc
 

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This is quite a good start, with a high food capital, and at least 1 excellent secondary city. Here are a few ideas of what you want to accomplish in the early game for a solid start:

- Develop your capital as quickly as possible. You want to work as many improved squares as possible as quickly as possible. Growing your city to work an extra tile does not help much if that tile is not improved. Unimproved tiles add only 1 extra food or hammer because it takes 2 food to feed the new citizen. An improved tile means 2 or 3 times the output of an unimproved tile. This is why growing your capital at turn 1 is not as good as getting a worker out.

- Get a second productive city going as soon as possible. A third or fourth city may or may not come immediately thereafter, but getting a second productive city quickly is very important.

- Secure a strategic resource for better military units. Teching archery is usually a waste. But you need better than warriors for barbarians. Generally this means teching BW, and if there is no copper near, then AH. If there are also no horses, then Iron Working.

Some ways to accomplish the above:

-Growing your capital and getting a second city out cannot both happen at once. Settlers are expensive and you don't grow while building them. The solution to accomplishing these two goals quickly is chopping wood. Usually the quickest way to get a second city out and get on to growing your capital is to get Bronze Working first while building a worker, chop forest to complete worker, then have both workers chop forests for a settler. This is a good idea if you have a nice spot for a second city. This gets the settler out very quickly, and gets your capital growing very soon with 2 workers to improve tiles.

- If neither your second city or capital have a strategic resource, you will need to get a third city very soon for a resource, or build the Great Wall.

Some thoughts on this start:

Your pink dot will be a fine city. The blue dot should not be considered until you scout more down there. I would suggest getting 2 more cities rather quickly. One at the pink dot (I would probably make this the 3rd city), and one 2E and 1S of the stone on the river bend. This stone city should look very good to you. The stone will be very useful as you are industrious, and building the great wall and pyramids should be early goals after getting a couple cities out. The flood plains will provide growth and production via the whip.

- My plan would be: Get city 2 up with highest priority. Research mysticism and chop a monument there to pop borders for stone. While waiting for borders to pop and hooking up stone, build work boats in capital and grow capital. Build a third worker in city 2 while working an irrigated flood plain (you should already have 2 workers). Once stone is hooked up, send workers back to capital to chop and mine the two forested hills. Have city 2 grow to size 4, whip a granary, grow again, whip a settler, grow again, whip a library, grow again, run 2 scientists. With 2 scientists in city 2, and working the gold in city 3, you should easily be able to wait til math to chop the pyramids. Remember that math gives you +50% production on chopping wood. You will need a lot of workers. 3 minimum, better 4 by the time 3rd city is up.

- Wonders are fine to build if you are industrious, especially with that stone. Just make sure you get your second city going first ... then you can keep expanding while building those wonders. That second city will be a huge production boost early on ... it can work 4 irrigated flood plains, and you should whip often. Try to whip for 2 population at a time, as the unhappiness is the same no matter how much population is whipped. Ideally you want to whip this city when it is size 5 or 6 for 2 population ... then it can make good use of all those flood plains.

Xanadu, thank you for jumping in! I've looked at your post, and, as you'll have already seen, implemented some of your suggestions. As I've already mentioned, I don't like Slavery, even though I see the logic behind it. Possibly, when I'm more experienced at Noble,I'll be able to avoid it.

Marc
 
this is shaping up to be my favorite thread ever! just look at what i get to quote so far *giggle*



yeah whipping takes trial/error to learn how to use the right way. i'm still noobish at it but it's very very helpful. you're charismatic, so you have a higher happy cap in your cities even without monuments. whipping is a way to take advantage of that, so yay! total sidetrack--what helped me learn how to best crack that whip was playing a game as monty, and then another where i picked a leader i actually like (jaguars have tacky outfits) where i altered the .xml to give myself sacrificial altars as my UB. so if that is an area you want to improve in, that's an idea for a future game in your spare (not revealed in public necessarily *giggle*) time.

Kmad, I really hope that you're over 18 after that image. :groucho:

Marc
 
heck i'm so old and married i don't even know what image that gave, even re-reading it! ps i'm barely over twice 18, as in, old enough to be several people on these board's mother! but my only children are dogs, i'm not that brave *giggle*.

in this thread where someone wanted to learn how to use slavery, i said goofy things like "my people just dread when i add any building that adds happiness to the queue. 'write your wills folks, she's starting a temple. count on it, two of us are gonna die soon!'
got this response:

I don't think the loss of people is supposed to mean that all those people DIE. I think it's just supposed to represent general oppression and social upheaval. Maybe some slaves die under the whip, but turns are a loooong time, remember (except for those of us who run Slavery in the Modern era, and you know who you are). Most pop loss would come from the more subtle results of slavery, e.g. hard labor leading to shorter life expectancy, slaves not having as many children, slave-OWNERS not having as many children either (because you don't need kids to help around the farm), slaves running away and hiding out in the countryside, etc.

The Aztecs are a special case, of course. But most civilizations didn't actually _kill_ their slaves.

in case that helps you rationalize anything away ;)
 
(Yay, screenshot worked!)

Nice job on the last 20 turns. :)

Priorities now are workers (to improve the land around the new cities), more settlers and a couple of token garrisons. My initial thought would be to aim for three more cities in the short-mid-term, at the places in the screenshot. Assuming you go for the Great Wall (a good idea, I think, given the thin expansion) you won't need any more than a single warrior for each city. It's a bit tight between completing the GW and the first barbs, but you should be able to fend them off with the couple of military units you have.

As has been said, the best way to get settlers out in a while is to whip them - just in case KMadCandy's rationalization didn't work (you're the leader of a civilization, you're supposed to be mad with power and rationalize anything ;) ) you're going to be struggling for production otherwise. My thought would be to build a couple of warriors (as the city grows to 4), whip a settler (for 60 hammers/2 pop), build a couple more, do it again, then look at the Great Wall, then a couple of workers.

Also, couple of small things to nitpick - rather than chopping the grassland near the river, I'd chop the forest on the hills, which will allow you to mine them for extra production afterwards.

Anyway, once that's all been done, you can think about the Pyramids, which should only take 15-20 turns. Note that long term the idea behind the copper and stone cities is that they will eventually be commerce cities. The high food of both should make this viable, whether your commerce is specialists in representation, or cottages. The production city to the south might struggle a bit to begin with, but you should have 6 surplus food if you can farm the two grassland tiles with fresh water, so you can start working the hills after that.
 

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I think that the copper city is the only city atm set in stone. Stone city doesn't have a food bonus AFAIK, so a little more scouting in that regard would be helpful.
You're Industrious, Charismatic, and have stone, and yet you talk of your big, pointy mausoleums :nono: De Gaulle was made for stonehenge! Build it with a few chops, and it should be done in under 5 turns. the lack of hills is more than compensated for with your copius chops. Also, learning how to deal with barbs is an important early game aspect, so I disadvise the GW. otherwise, more scouting and gettiing your hands on copper should be your priorities.
And I see an Island to your west. May want to chop a Galley in your spare time to check it out, since you may be isolated.
 
I think that the copper city is the only city atm set in stone. Stone city doesn't have a food bonus AFAIK, so a little more scouting in that regard would be helpful.

i think copper city is "set in stone" as in, we definitely want a city there, it will be fantastic, and we don't want any bad guys having one there. i wouldn't count on placing it on the exact tile marked on the screenshot tho until we scout out the area more. we haven't even seen all 21 tiles that would be in the city cross. there could be something special further east. even just more river tiles might be a reason to move it one east, i already loved rivers and levees make them even more amazing. this is me theorizing, not playing your game for you btw Marc ... i haven't opened the save. just explaining how i think when i'm planning out cities. ;)

stone city might have seafood, looks like Dora didn't stand on the stone tile while she was exploring so we're still in the dark a bit there. it might turn out that there's seafood but we'd have to settle on the stone to get it, and we might decide not to do that, but in my own games, i'd rather know and decide not to than do it without knowing and then think "oops!" particularly since if we settle production piggy city down south where it's currently marked, the clams down there can't ever be worked by a city. we'll get the health benefit so it's not a crisis but it makes the perfectionist in me sigh at the map a little bit is all. that's me tho, sane people aren't necessarily that way.

edit:
And I see an Island to your west. May want to chop a Galley in your spare time to check it out, since you may be isolated.
oh yeah, good idea! a work boat can explore too and is cheaper (45h vs 75, that's epic speed, don't know for normal). can't carry anything, but it doesn't require a research detour to sailing. i often explore with work boats rather than galleys if it's early.
 
Sorry, guys, my computer died yesterday, and we had to reinstall everything. I'm reinstalling Civ now, and hope to have everything up an running soon.

Marc
 
stone city might have seafood, looks like Dora didn't stand on the stone tile while she was exploring so we're still in the dark a bit there. it might turn out that there's seafood but we'd have to settle on the stone to get it,

It's not visible in the screenshot, but in the save game, you can see that there is no seafood near Stone City.

I may have to start renaming the cities now. Paris will remain Paris, but I'm going to rename the remaining cities to help get an idea of what's doing what.

I will say, aside from all the great advice you guys are giving, keeping a log of what I do turn from turn is really helping as well. I recommend it to everyone who is new to the game, or to any level beyond Settler.

EDIT: Kmad, I see what you're saying, now. You can't see the squares under the fog that would be visible if I settled on top of the stone. I will have to check that out. Maybe I can move my settler there, first, and if there is no seafood visible, I will move it to where Xanadu suggested.

Marc
 
Sorry to hear it tmarcl!
I hope everything will go well and wait impatiently to get the next set of Bob, Dora and Wendy ;)

As for the game, I totally agree with the dotmap provided by VMark. 2nd city - stone, 3rd - gold & copper. Next ones can wait.

And you can be sure to grab Stonehenge, GW and Pyramids with this stone and wood, being Industrious. Use your trait when it's the most powerful - afterwards Industrious is rather weak.
 
I think that the copper city is the only city atm set in stone. Stone city doesn't have a food bonus AFAIK, so a little more scouting in that regard would be helpful.
You're Industrious, Charismatic, and have stone, and yet you talk of your big, pointy mausoleums :nono: De Gaulle was made for stonehenge! Build it with a few chops, and it should be done in under 5 turns. the lack of hills is more than compensated for with your copius chops. Also, learning how to deal with barbs is an important early game aspect, so I disadvise the GW. otherwise, more scouting and gettiing your hands on copper should be your priorities.
And I see an Island to your west. May want to chop a Galley in your spare time to check it out, since you may be isolated.

Hack, welcome to the thread! I agree with you, Stonehenge would seem to be an obvious choice with my Stone resource to the north. This would guarantee me a cultural expansion in every new city. However, I have a limited amount of Forests remaining around Paris, and I want to save them for the Pyramids. I'm told that I can wait until I get Mathematics (planned after Writing), which will give me more Hammers per chop, and I'm afraid that Stonehenge will be built by then.

I'm not sure how I feel about not building the Great Wall. You may be absolutely right, and I need to learn how to deal with Barbarians in the early game. My first inclination is to go ahead and build the Pyramids, which will benefit me both in the short term and the long term (both immediate extra happiness and science as well as potential Great Engineers to help with production). If the Great Wall is still available after that, I may still consider going for it.

Marc
 
don't forget that monuments also give :) if you're charismatic, which is the real reason to build Stonehenge. more :) means more :whipped: roof, which is something else that is very important to learn for the higher levels. Also, you only need a max. Chop of 2 forest, leaving 7 forests left. Assuming normal speed, you've already chopped 1/3 of Stonehenge, and there are still enough trees to build another wonder with. Typically, in Noble, Stonehenge is built by about 1000 BC epic speed, so figure on having it built by 750 BC. It's also unlikly you'll get all three wonders, since they're built at around the same time(GW usually goes at 1250 BC), so you need to set the wonder you want and go for it.
 
Fortunately, I was able to reinstall everything with no problem, and the story of the French Empire continues. As you will see, I did make a few changes in strategy. Also, we meet our first two rivals. Dora gets drunk. Bob and Wendy split up.

40 It turns out that I didn't actually do turn 40. So, this stretch will actually be 21 turns, not 20. Turn 60 will be played through until hitting enter. This turn, I've moved my Settler north towards the stone resource. Also, Dora beats up a vicious Bear! If I didn't mention it in the last turn log, she's also discovered a good source of venison to the south in the tundra. The Settler is complete, and I've started on a Granary. I realized as I re-read my previous turnlog, that I said that I'd start on a second Worker, but I already had two.

41 Masonry is discovered. I've started on Animal Husbandry (10 turns) for the Piggly Wigglies and the Ships (if you don't get the reference, then you may not have read Terry Pratchett. If this is the case, I highly recommend you do so :) ) After Animal Husbandry, I will go for Writing (12 turns as of right now). Judaism has been discovered in a distant land. Dora is given the Combat I and Medic I promotions. As mentioned earlier, she has proven very useful. I'm going to do my best to keep her alive for the entire game. She also discovers yet another source of Sheep. My Settler has crossed the river to the north, and behold, Kmad was right. There is a source of clams that would be within the BFC if I settled on top of the Stone.

Now, here's the thing. If I continue with Xanadu's plan, and settle on the Forest two squares east, it'll take 3 turns before I can build Stone City. I'd have access to all four Floodplain squares, as well as 4 hammers from the quarried stone once either Bob and/or Wendy got up there to quarry it and build a road. I wouldn't have access to the clams however. Also, I'd be stealing a square from Paris. If, instead, I settle immediately on top of the Stone, I'd be able to build my second city next turn, and have access to the Stone immediately (at least in Stone City). It wouldn't take as long for my Workers to connect the resource to my capital (ensuring sooner access), and I'd have access to the Clams. I'd only have access to three Floodplains, however, and I wouldn't get the four hammers from the quarried Stone. I'd still get two hammers for production, though. This will cost me 1 extra food (three food for working the Clams, four for irrigating a Floodplain. Additionally, settling on the Stone will give me (ultimately) 12 extra gold (before building a Harbor). Given all this, I am going to settle on the resource for the quicker access and the additional gold. This shouldn't alter my plans too much.

42 Stone City is built, and I am now at -1 GPT. However, I have a stash of 105. While it's not going to happen this way, if I never incur any additional costs, it will take 105 turns before I had to lower my slider. Stone City starts working on a Monument (15 turns). It will, however, grow in 8 turns, and I think I can start whipping it complete by then. Bob and Wendy begin building Stone Quarry Road. When they get there, one will split off to Farm the Floodplain tile being worked, and the other will go down to start on building Pastures.

43

44 Dora meets some villagers who claim to have lived beyond the Sea. They tell her stories of trees floating on water with extra large t-shirts on them that catch the wind and make the tree go. Dora is skeptical, yet still tells us the secret of Sailing. Dora then beats up the silly villager and moves on.

45 Dora climbs a hill, discovers another source of Corn and Piggly Wigglies, as well Wine! Woot! This will have to the location for a city at some point. We're French. We need our Wine!

46 Bob and Wendy complete Stone Quarry Road and split up. Bob begins Farming the Floodplain tile, while Wendy initially begins towards Piggly Wiggly Ranch, before realizing that she has no clue how to build it, and won't for another three turns. She decides instead to head to one of the Forested Hills and begin chopping down trees. Dora climbs another Hill and sees that someone has drawn in dark gray crayon on the ground to the east. Fearing that this could be a threat to the Wine, she reports that she plans to check it out.

47 Dora walks down the Hill and is greeted by a hideous looking man. The two of them grunt at each other, and figure out a common pidgeon-speak, and the man says he is from a place called the Byzantine Empire. His leader, Justinian I (a very silly thing to call an immortal, since it means that there is likely not to be a II or III Justinian after him...) is the founder of a faith called "Buddhism". Dora is confused. She cannot conceive of anyone naming a religion after a beer that both looks and tastes like piss (my apologies to any real Buddhists reading this thread). However, she smiles nicely and agrees that she will not club him over the head, just yet. In return, Justinian's emissary agrees to leave the Wine alone, as they already have some. The Parisian Mayor decides that this Granary thing is taking too long, and whips his slaves into faster completion.

48 Paris completes it's Granary, and begins work on on Stonhenge. With moving production to a hill, it will take 12 turns. I know I initially decided not to build it, but after seeing what Pawelo and others have had to say, I'm going to try for it and the Pyramids. Plus, if I can get a religion, the Great Prophet will enable me to build the shrine for it.. Wendy begins chopping down trees.
49 People finally figure out how to herd animals into Pastures. We now begin working towards making pretty squigglies on bark. Writing will be discovered in 8 turns. Justinian, upon learning how effective whipping people into hurrying up is, decides to adopt Slavery as well.

50 Stone City's Overseers begin beating their slaves as well. The monument will be finished next turn.

51 Stone City completes it's monument, and starts on a Granary. This work will continue until the city grows in 6 turns (less, when Bob completes the Farm in 2 turns), at which point it will switch to another Worker. Wendy will move south to the other Forested hill (Paris will now complete Stonehenge in 7 turns) and chop those trees as well. Afterwards, she will start mining the Hills.

52
53 Bob finishes his Farm, and heads to the southeast Forest square to start chopping. He'd join Wendy, but by the time he gets there and starts chopping, she'll already be done. Dora notices that Justinian's Scout is faster than she is, and grumbles a bit, feeling that he may already have gotten to all the small villages. She considers whapping him over the head for a second, but he moves away too fast.

54

55 Paris completes Stonehenge! Work shall now begin on the Pyramids (40 turns). Wendy moves south to start chopping down more trees.

56

57 The wife of one of our wisemen have figured out that if you squiggle on bark, and give the squiggles names, you can record things better. The first thing she Writes is something called a "Honeydew List," thus accidentally discovering the Modern Marriage... In retaliation, her husband goes out to Stonehenge and starts counting the Stones. He will be done in 16 turns. Dora finds another beach on the other side of the continent. She takes some of the Beer that Justinian's emissary gave her, and starts fishing.

58 Justinian's emissary pops up (literally) and offers to let us wander around the Byzantine Empire on two conditions. One, we let him wander around ours, and two, we promise not to kick any chickens. We agree, if for no other reason then the emissary has brought a few kegs of beer with him and promises to share it with us. Dora is told to stop fishing and go check out the gray borders. Disapponted (she almost caught a sixty foot trout), she finishes her beer and obeys. (As a side note, I don't like gray for borders. It's too hard to see on the mini-map.)

59 Dora heads towards the Byzantine Empire. Bob and Wendy continue deforesting Paris.

60 Another emissary pops up, claiming to serve someone called Joao II (henceforth Joe Two) of the Portuguese Empire. Given our distinct lack of extra club wielders, we agree to be nice to each other.

Marc
 

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When I decided to build Stonehenge, I was nearly done with the monument in Stone City (I think it was the turn before I whipped it), so I decided to finish it. In retrospect, I should have switched production to a Granary immediately. This would have left the monument in my queue, which would have given me a bit of cash once Stonehenge was completed.

Two cities I want to build are one near the Silk and one near the Wine. I'm not sure of the placement, though. Also, the Deer to the south is on Tundra, and I'm not sure of placing cities down there. If I put it on the coast, it should be able to grow a bit, especially with a Lighthouse.

Marc
 
Methinks Justinian gets the axe. He's way too close for comfort. Settle metal city, hook up the copper, and go smash some heads in. The hill 2SE is an agressive site that grab corn and wine, and shares the pig with metal city; it could very easily become your SSC. Hill town seems OK, but you may have other priorities. Joao sailed over here, so most likley once you kill Justinain, you'll have the continent largly to yourself.
EDIT: you need more intel before settling the silk city, but It should produce a good amount of gold once there.
 
Nice job tmarcl! Loving the turn reports, especially the Pratchett references :goodjob:

I've put my thoughts on city sites into another dotmap below. You seem to have plenty of room, so you can probably make your cities optimal, rather than try to squeeze as many in as possible - it's a little bit more work, but less maintenance cost, given the lower number of cities you'll have overall, and with Stonehenge you'll have all the territory with border pops. Even more so if you can eventually grab a religion as well.

From what I can see, the things that are set in stone at the moment are:

- 3rd city will go next to the copper, gold and Piggly Wigglies,
- 4th city will go to the south, next to the sheep and all the hills. Shame we can't get that deer, but that'd mean losing out on the sheep. We'll still get the health after the second border pop anyway.

After that, there's a strategic decision to be made. Firstly, there's the military option. Even on Noble, it's too late for a 'pure' axe rush on Justinian (especially as you're building the Pyramids), so you're likely to need catapults - I guess that's the thought process behind researching Mathematics? (otherwise, I can't really see the use of that tech right now). The other thing this will give you? A religion, and a holy city :)

Or, there's the hippy peacenik way. The two city sites will be the same, but the emphasis after that will be on workers and settlers to go to the north and check out those jungle city sites, for long-term economic growth. The marked 5th city site will likely come into play as well then, if it's not stolen by Justin first.

Personally, I think I'd be looking at the military option - as Hackapell says, he really is quite close. Military path will be a beeline to construction, and the focus, after the Pyramids, will be on mining hills for production in those three southern cities.

The cities themselves are another thing that's slightly concerning - they're perhaps a little slower than they should be right now. I notice the two hills to the NE of Paris have not been mined - perhaps this might be a good idea, rather than continuing to chop all the way through. If you complete the current chops, then go to mining duty with one of the workers (while leaving the other chopping), the 'mids should be finished at roughly the same time - with the advantage that you'll have one extra forest to chop later, and extra production for the forthcoming settlers/escorts. As there's no prospect of another city until the Pyramids are completed, I agree that this has to be number one priority at the moment.
 

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Even on Noble, it's too late for a 'pure' axe rush on Justinian (especially as you're building the Pyramids), so you're likely to need catapults - I guess that's the thought process behind researching Mathematics?
With Maths, he was intending to increase his chop efficiency.
I think that there's still time for an axe-rush, but you might as well beeline Consturction while you wait. 10 axes should give justinian more than enough problems, seeing as it looks like he has just one city to your three. whether or not you want to use the pyramids as they were intended or as cash, the military option should be heavily considered in such a position.
 
Methinks Justinian gets the axe. He's way too close for comfort. Settle metal city, hook up the copper, and go smash some heads in. The hill 2SE is an agressive site that grab corn and wine, and shares the pig with metal city; it could very easily become your SSC. Hill town seems OK, but you may have other priorities. Joao sailed over here, so most likley once you kill Justinain, you'll have the continent largly to yourself.
EDIT: you need more intel before settling the silk city, but It should produce a good amount of gold once there.

My big concern about declaring war on anyone right now is that my entire military strength consists of a level 3 Warrior. Knowing even as little as I do about the AI, I'm quite certain that this will not be sufficient to wipe out the Byzantine Empire. Of the ten axemen that have been suggested, at least three will be needed for city garrison.

After that, there's a strategic decision to be made. Firstly, there's the military option. Even on Noble, it's too late for a 'pure' axe rush on Justinian (especially as you're building the Pyramids), so you're likely to need catapults - I guess that's the thought process behind researching Mathematics? (otherwise, I can't really see the use of that tech right now). The other thing this will give you? A religion, and a holy city :)

My initial thought on researching Mathematics was to wait to build the Pyramids until I had the extra hammers from the Forests. Unfortunately, I got impatient. Should I maybe switch to something else? Or stick it out with Mathematics? Bob and Wendy will have finished clearing the Forests long before I get it, which will render it pretty useless except for a stepping stone to Construction.

Or, there's the hippy peacenik way. The two city sites will be the same, but the emphasis after that will be on workers and settlers to go to the north and check out those jungle city sites, for long-term economic growth. The marked 5th city site will likely come into play as well then, if it's not stolen by Justin first.

Personally, I think I'd be looking at the military option - as Hackapell says, he really is quite close. Military path will be a beeline to construction, and the focus, after the Pyramids, will be on mining hills for production in those three southern cities.

By southern cities, I'm assuming you're including Paris?


The cities themselves are another thing that's slightly concerning - they're perhaps a little slower than they should be right now. I notice the two hills to the NE of Paris have not been mined - perhaps this might be a good idea, rather than continuing to chop all the way through.

Interestingly enough, this was my first instinct. I should have gone with it, because for one thing, the forests aren't giving as much as I'd hope, and another, having mines there will shorten the time required for Pyramids considerably. Plus, it'll help build Axemen faster.

If you complete the current chops, then go to mining duty with one of the workers (while leaving the other chopping), the 'mids should be finished at roughly the same time - with the advantage that you'll have one extra forest to chop later, and extra production for the forthcoming settlers/escorts. As there's no prospect of another city until the Pyramids are completed, I agree that this has to be number one priority at the moment.

Marc
 
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