Help me not stink playing Pericles v2.0

[WFU03]

So, the last one didn't go very well. Time to try again. Same deal as before and, once again, I'm going to try not to stink as Pericles.

Here is our start:


Any thoughts or tips?

 

[WFU03]

Turn 1 - 52

Spoiler :

Decided to settle in place. Rice, marble, and lots of trees. Worker first and teching agr. After seeing the initial border pop, I should have moved to where the blue circle was.

On Turn 8, I met both Churchill and Pascal from the north. They can't be too far away, considering that they found me.

After agr, went for The Wheel. The only thing I can mine is the marble, but I'm going to want to put a quarry there anyway. So, I'm thinking TW>Mining>BW.

Just a few turns later, I met Sitting Bull. Interesting neighbors.

Unfortunately, I had scouted west to start with and it appears all of my friends are to the north or east. There is an intriguing island to the west, though, so I might send a work boat that direction. For now, though, my scout headed back toward the north and found Churchill very, very close.

Heading to the east, Pascal is fairly close, but a manageable distance. This food poor capital is killing my growth though. With the amount of jungle to my south and east and how close Churchill is to my north, I think expanding towards him is the best idea. Interestingly, I got the message that he founded a second city, but it must have been to the north, because I can't see it with my warrior.

Bronze Working reveals copper in my culture area and in a perfect city spot to the northeast. The city will also block fairly well, so I'll take it. On to Animal Husbandry.

Ok, here's the state of the world at Turn 52. Churchill just founded his 3rd city to the west of me.

My immediate area:


To my south:


To my north and west:



Any thoughts at this point? Should I Phalanx rush Churchill? Expanding south too quickly seems like a loss of revenue stuck in the jungle. However, Sitting Bull is very tough to take out if he gets too much land. Churchill is protective as well, but at least his UU and UB don't help him until the mid game. I could attempt to continue to expand peacefully, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it to 7 cities.

 

[Gumbolt]

I wouldnt be playing to turn 52 so quickly.

If you want to do a phalanx rush you really should be ready before 1920bc.

I'll have a go from 4000bc save but I am trying to do HA rushes at present.

Oh the 1920bc save would be useful!!!

 

[pi-r8]

What leaders have you had success with before? What makes Pericles so different that you can't do the same things with him? The choice of leader really isn't that significant.

 

[WFU03]

What leaders have you had success with before? What makes Pericles so different that you can't do the same things with him? The choice of leader really isn't that significant.

On Emperor, I've won with HC and Roosevelt. But I just moved up to Emperor a little while ago. I really think my struggles with Pericles are a combination of two things: first, I don't like SEs very much and, second, I hate Greece's starting techs.

 

[WFU03]

I wouldnt be playing to turn 52 so quickly.

If you want to do a phalanx rush you really should be ready before 1920bc.

I'll have a go from 4000bc save but I am trying to do HA rushes at present.

Oh the 1920bc save would be useful!!!

Your wish is my command.

And if it's too late for Phalanxes, then do you have any suggestions? Perhaps a catapult plus Phalanx war?

 

[Gumbolt]

I might of settled 1n at start. An extra production in capital. Plains/hill are great for production. Even better with marble.

Ag/AH was fine. As you didnt have pigs maybe AG/mining/BW. The wheel to follow.

I like the horse/flood plains as second city. I guess you needed Sparta for copper.

I am not sure why your second city is built 2120bc?

City builds worker at start. Then settler or grow city to size 3 then settler. As BW kicks in chop out workers. Then pum[ phalanxs from both cities. Capture English cities. Allow 2-3 units for protective trait.

Right now your main issue is lack of workers. One is hardly enough! Sometimes 2-3 workers for 2 cities is a good thing. You can still do a rush but you are lacking workers to help chopping.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm not going to play this one all the way through, but I got 9 cities peacefully. No reason to dial up early war; churchill and SB are pretty peaceful and pacal hearts HR enough to get him off your back too. Developing all those calendar resources should deal a strong enough position to pick at someone later. Strong as SB is in terms of unit spam and flat promos he doesn't enjoy infantry/cannon or something much more than anyone else.

 

[NihilZero]

Spoiler :

I played a few turns in this and settled on the marble, was pleased to find some pigs. This also puts the copper in Athens' BFC, and my second city went over by the horse and gems. Position is pretty good to hit Winston with Phalanxes, although is PROness is a pain in the ass. If only Pacal was a little closer. He's usually a soft target in the early game.

Not sure if I'm playing any more or not, the weather outside is telling me to go to the beach...

 

[WFU03]

I might of settled 1n at start. An extra production in capital. Plains/hill are great for production. Even better with marble.

Ag/AH was fine. As you didnt have pigs maybe AG/mining/BW. The wheel to follow.

I like the horse/flood plains as second city. I guess you needed Sparta for copper.

I am not sure why your second city is built 2120bc?

City builds worker at start. Then settler or grow city to size 3 then settler. As BW kicks in chop out workers. Then pum[ phalanxs from both cities. Capture English cities. Allow 2-3 units for protective trait.

Right now your main issue is lack of workers. One is hardly enough! Sometimes 2-3 workers for 2 cities is a good thing. You can still do a rush but you are lacking workers to help chopping.

I usually found my second city a bit faster, but I hate doing so before I know where horses and bronze are. I guess with Greece that means that I end up delaying it more than with most other civs. Perhaps that is a dumb policy.

 

[Gumbolt]

Yeah I wouldn't delay your second city so much. I think by the way the forest was set up you could tell the plains was a resource.

I normally aim for 2400-2800bc. If I am imperialistic trait civ I can have a second city by 3300bc. Really pends how many workers you first want and on the land.

TMIT was right too. You had lots of land to expand peacefully into. I think your main issue is you seem to be waiting for copper/horse every game and this is slowing your starts.

 

[Gumbolt]

Up to 1400bc but by no means the right way.

Spoiler :

Overall got horse/gem city up first. hooked up AH and wheel and spammed chariots. Rather fool hardy against protective civ but hey.

English capital is not that great but lots of forest to chop.

Got second city up by 2400bc. I suspect without marble you would struggle for that date.

 

[z0wb13]

... No reason to dial up early war...

i didn't play it, because i'm between operating systems, but the coolest thing about pericles is his cheap buildings. i think that makes him a builder, despite the cool helmet. so unless you have somebody like alexander settle almost right on top of you, REXing with pericles is usually a better move. it means that mining and bronze is probably the best open with the greeks in many games, so that you can accelerate REX with chops and whips. the phalanx is well-rounded, but not an awesome city raider unit by any estimation. at least not any better than regular axemen.

if TMIT says he got 9 cities, shoot for 6 cities by 1ad, and practice diplomacy. go ahead and settle way out, just make sure you have a plan for barbarians. creative trait will help a lot for that too. ignore religious techs, let someone else bark up that tree.


anyways: pericles=builder

 

[WFU03]

Ok, it's great to see you guys playing my map much better than I had. However, I feel like I can't play the map anymore once I see what I should do. It just feels like cheating and looking at the whole world in the world builder. However, I am trying to take the lessons and learn. So, coming soon, a version 3 (which I will keep in this thread). Hopefully I will have learned and you'll see a great start this time.

 

[WFU03]

Here's the start for version 3.

Actually, ignore that. I like playing with huts and random events on. Gives the game a bit more excitement. A new start will appear soon.

 

[vranasm]

just wanted to note that knowing what to do and do it are 2 very different things.
In other game here on forums (NC 56 i think), I perfectly knew "final" situation at 325BC, with city positions, tech order, wonders built. And still couldnt mimic it perfectly.
Playing some map multiple times maybe feels like cheating from exploration point of view, but you still can learn a lot from it.

to your actual new start... food is so-so in place, ag->ah->min + worker first seems like given.

 

[WFU03]

just wanted to note that knowing what to do and do it are 2 very different things.
In other game here on forums (NC 56 i think), I perfectly knew "final" situation at 325BC, with city positions, tech order, wonders built. And still couldnt mimic it perfectly.
Playing some map multiple times maybe feels like cheating from exploration point of view, but you still can learn a lot from it.

to your actual new start... food is so-so in place, ag->ah->min + worker first seems like given.

That's certainly true.

However, I still can't shake the feeling that I'm only doing better because I know the map. I know which way to send my scout. I know which way to expand. Etc.

So, new starts it is.

 

[WFU03]

Ok, the real version 3 start.

Gotta say, this one looks very nice. Gold and stone in the BFC.

 

[WFU03]

Ok, take 3 from turn 0 to turn 49:

Spoiler :

Nice start. Settled in place, which revealed some wine in the BFC. The only downside is that I don't have a ton of food.

Started exploring to the south, but met Gilgamesh pretty quickly from the north.

I decided to work the lake first (2F, 2C) so that I could tech a bit faster and I decided on a worker first build.

Tech order will be:
Ag>Min>BW

I figure Ag first to get the corn irrigated. It's my only decent food resource. Mining second to get the gold and unlock BW. BW third so that I can chop some trees.

Just met Toku to the southeast and my scout got eaten by a bear. They really should carry an anti-bear rifle.

After the demise of my scout, my worker appears. Time for War>War>War. The first two for continued scouting and the third for my second city.

Once nice thing that the border pops showed is that Athens is a perfect blocking city. Now if I can just figure out how close Gilga and Toku are to me. Initial impression is that Toku isn't that close and has some jungle to clear through to get to me. Giggles, I'm not so sure about, so the first warrior heads his way.

Giggles' capital is no more than 10 tiles from Athens. I guess expansion will be headed in his direction first.

BW reveals bronze just to the southwest of the cultural radius of Athens. Settle there and try to rush Gilga or just REX toward him to start with? Hmm.

Next tech is animal husbandry at least. Then The Wheel and Masonry. (Do you guys think that is too early for masonry?)

I decide to settle towards him and simply see if I can box him in.

AH reveals horses also just outside the cultural radius of Athens. On a side note, gold is so nice for the tech rate.

Gilga settles his second city in 2560, towards me. Granted, I'm not sure he had much of a choice in the matter. I also found Toku's capital. It's on the end of a little peninsula. I could try to block it, but I would have to settle through quite a bit of jungle and it's a little ways from Athens.

Sparta founded in 2240. Not terribly early, but it seemed like the right timing. Perhaps others will chime in on how late it was.

The North:


The South:

So, any advice based upon my first 50 turns? If you want to play out any more than that, that's fine, but try to put it in a separate spoiler because I would prefer not to read it until after I've played myself.

I feel like this one is going better than the first two, but that could be more attributable to the fact that I got a much better capital. Also, I always feel more comfortable on a continents style map with a few opponents than a pangea with everyone.

 

[vranasm]

That's certainly true.

However, I still can't shake the feeling that I'm only doing better because I know the map. I know which way to send my scout. I know which way to expand. Etc.

So, new starts it is.

grrrhm I already shadowed the sooner map...played to 1 AD.

I just describe the map so you know what you threw away ;-).
I didnt played it in good way I am affraid, actually I think I pretty much screwed up big time .
There is plenty of room to expand to.
in Cap BFC (SIP) you got corn, 4x sugar (3 of them riverside - i used them as FP cottage) and plenty of riverside grass.
The map is semi-isolation with Romans to south (but far away). Where your cap with 3rd border pop blocks whole peninsula for only yourself.
There is plenty of good land for cottage spam, so I kind of cottage spammed ;-).
Managed to get 7 cities, 2 settlers in place for more cities, but since i am somewhat crashed, i didnt settle them yet.
romans expanded peacefully to 11 cities, so that will be certainly problem.
Biggest thing I screwed up is that I didnt prioritize Monarchy enough. There is absolutely no free happy cap around before calendar and I just teched as usually to aesth line, iw and then I thought about "hey i dont have enough pop in cities!".

So that leads to empire with a lot cities at size 4 (cap 5), improved land no one works and 46bpt at 1AD...

If I would play it again i would certainly prioritize Monarchy.


Screens

Spoiler :