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Help me play at Monarch, please.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Callidus Thorn, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. Callidus Thorn

    Callidus Thorn Chieftain

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    Used to play this game a lot at Noble level, won every victory type except cultural, but haven't played in quite a while. And I figured I might as well jump to Monarch, since I've read in one or two threads here that there's not much difference between noble and prince levels. And I'm probably better off not relearning all the bad habits I undoubtedly picked up playing at noble level.;)

    Since all the other threads I checked out asking for help always had the suggestion that the OP post a game, here's mine:Standard size Continents, normal speed(Edit; forgot to mention, no huts and no random events). Playing as Liz (might as well stack things in my favour:lol:), and here's the start.



    I'm thinking SiP, workboat then worker, and teching Ag->AH->BW to make use of all those forests.

    So, think you can help me out?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ringo Kid

    Ringo Kid Prince

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    First thing I would do is move the warrior ne to see what is there, and then decide if SIP is the best move. As to research I would want to develop the gems asap to speed up all the other research. So I think I would do mining and bw first. Or does Liz start with mining? I dont recall.

    My first build is almost always worker-chop worker-chop settler.
     
  3. chessplaya

    chessplaya Prince

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    I would SIP and go Ag->AH->BW, but definitely start with worker first--corn and pigs are better tiles than clam so best to improve them ASAP. After the worker finishes, grow to at least size 3 while building warriors (and chop the workboat maybe?) so your city can work corn+pigs+gems, and then build a settler.
     
  4. Solyaris

    Solyaris Warlord

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    This is one of the few cases where I would go workboat (1F2H tile) -> grow size 2 -> whip worker

    Tech BW first, then agri -> AH

    Main advantage with this strategy is working a better tile (4F3C over 2F1H) for about 10 times longer then if you go straight for worker and save some hammers (dont have to build the WB later). Main disadvantage would be loss of ~8 worker turns.
     
  5. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Move warrior NW to reveal another tile. SIP looks best unless that extra tile is spectacular.

    Yummy! Priorities are the corn and pig. Lots of potential for close 2nd, 3rd and 4th city.
     
  6. FlyingSwan

    FlyingSwan King

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    @callidus-1st post so welcome to CFC.To complicate things abit I agree with solyaris.SIP,build workboat to size 2,work the gems initially,then switch to a 3F tile when the border pops.Build your worker at size 2 working the 3F tiles then switch into slavery and whip the worker.Next tech can be AGR while the worker improves the gems.At this point work a 2hammer tile till the WB completes.

    To complicate things further I usually go for an alphabet b-line with high commerce starts,especially with a FIN civ.So I would go TW>POT>WRIT>ALPHA and then backtrade for everything else.

    On the other hand going AGR 1st wont hurt,different people have different methods.
     
  7. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    If going for BW first here, I think that chopping the workboat first makes more sense than immediately improving gems.

    But with these food resources I suspect that going worker and agri first would lead to a faster start and earlier 2nd city. I think that would be better, since the science will be good anyway with this start and leader traits.
     
  8. chessplaya

    chessplaya Prince

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    After thinking about this start some more, I'm pretty sure the best plan (with SIP, worker first) is to mine gems first, then pasture pigs (and switch tiles from gems to pig), then farm corn, while teching Ag->AH->BW->Wheel. Otherwise it seems like it will take too long to reach the BW tech, so our worker won't be able to chop when it finishes everything else.

    Also, welcome to CFC, Callidus Thorn!
     
  9. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Did a quick test and you can Agri - AH - BW with the worker being busy always (improving corn - pigs - gems). That's doable cos tech costs are cheaper on monarch, but unimproved gems are needed for 3c rather than 3f unimproved tiles after the worker finished.

    There's probably no super way, but just mentioning food first before commerce would be possible ;)
    Work boat first can probably not keep up with that thou.
     
  10. Ringo Kid

    Ringo Kid Prince

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    I tried and found that worker- chop worker- both chop settler got the 2nd city founded on turn 34, while building worker first then developing the food then researching bw I founded the second city 6 turns slower and had just the one worker.
     
  11. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Deity

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    This is almost what I would do; SIP, same research order, build order Worker > WB > Warrior > Settler
     
  12. Callidus Thorn

    Callidus Thorn Chieftain

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    Thanks for the welcome, and even more for the suggestions.

    Did a little testing, just short term, to see which came out ahead at 3000bc. Worker first while researching bronze working looks the best, so I figure I'll run with it.



    I've got Rameses to the south, Hannibal a little further off to the southeast, and once that warriors built he'll be sent north to see what's up there. Besides that completely unjustified jungle ruining that rice:mad:

    Looks like I'll have to start thinking about city placement. On noble I never overlapped the cities or anything, didn't see a reason to, so I'm a little unsure on that front.
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    In no way can I see BW first being the best move here, and I would not have even worried about a workboat for some time. Your best tile here is the Pigs and if you'd gone Ag>AH you'd already have 2 strong food tiles improved. WB could be chopped later after BW, but honestly not needed urgently with pigs/corn - instead focus chops on settler/2nd worker.

    2 clear city spots are present that can share food. Jungle rice is irrelevant anyway..not that great a tile.
     
  14. Solyaris

    Solyaris Warlord

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    Tried this opening several times with different strategies, and to my surprise, the best start was actualy to settle on banana -> workboat -> whip worker (tech: BW -> agri -> AH). That was the best opening by far. 2nd city covers pigs/corn and wait for 2nd border pop of capitol to work gems.

    2nd best was a close race between SIP workboat -> whip worker and SIP worker -> improve gems/corn. Worker first probably ahead by a small margin.

    PS: settle on banana was the best choice, even in the abcense of copper
     
  15. Callidus Thorn

    Callidus Thorn Chieftain

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    Oops. Yeah, worker and ag->ah->bw is definitely better. That'll teach me not to obsess over the shinies...:blush:

    Anyway, city placement:



    It can't be seen on the screenshot, but purple will also grab gold. I doubt I'll be able to get blue, but it'd be nice(gold+ivory+stopping Hannibal getting it). Green's pretty much there for the Hel of it. Yellow grabs the copper that I won't know is there until next turn. Not sure between red or black, though black does get that second dye.

    Actually I'm not sure on any of the overlaps, in all honesty. I've always kept my cities much further apart.

    Techwise; wheel->pottery->writing->alpha.
     
  16. FlyingSwan

    FlyingSwan King

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    This is how I went.I built 2 citys to the North,1 directly above the fish,and 1 which has the gold-you cant work the rice till iron working so just mine the gold and use that.A city to the south that shares the pigs and with a border pop gets the ivory.The wheat city I would settle 1E if theres no fish about-not much point wasting a grassland hill if there isn't.Theres also room for a city directly east of the capitol which will be able to work the dye and ivory-and would be able to work a cottage in the capitols BFC.

    This is a good reason for overlaps,it lets you mature cottages in your capitol quicker,then when you switch to beauracracy that extra commerce is amplified.Also settling a city further away maintainance becomes an issue,not so much on monarch,but on Emporer/IMM,so you may as well get into good habits now,ready for when you move up levels.
     
  17. Mec AntiKythera

    Mec AntiKythera King

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    Nice land, beautiful capital. Two Copper that close?, I never see that. Black city problem will solve itself when Settler refuses to found a city there. Good city spots. You should have scouted the coast to the west completely to reveal seafood, or lack thereof, that will affect where you may want the adjacent cities. Tech path looks good, you clearly want Wheel, Pottery and Writing soon.
     
  18. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    Yeah, you should do that. Leaving all that free land to the AIs is bad.
    I never understood the obsession of players who are settling their cities 2 tiles from each other.
    Cities need to grow (and fast) and work as much tiles as possible to make the multiplier improvements worth building.
     
  19. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Cities won't work most of their tiles for most of the (relevant) game. Having a lot of land which you are not working is a waste.
     
  20. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    On the other hand having cities work high values tiles is also useful. My understanding is that cities close to the capital compensate by developing cottages ready for the capital to work after bureaucracy.

    On higher difficulties with increased maintenance cost you also save cash by having cities closer.
     

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