Help me play Deity

[AxelRhodd]

Hi All.
Im obsessed with playing on Deity level. Had many many attempts but never won and only managed to survive to the end of the game on couple of occasions.
I been reading a lot on how to approach Deity and watched plenty of LP videos - still Im just not good/clever enough to win

So I thought that maybe the Deity vets could help me out
Also I hope that this game analysis may help other players like me out there...

So here is the game I setup:

Random CIV - got Russia
Map size - tiny
Map type - Pangea
# civs - 5
# cs - 5
Sea level - low
Start bias DISABLED
DIPLO VC DISABLED

All other world settings are DEFAULT

Starting position:




I can see:
3x Pearls
2x sheep
River
Mountain
Flood plains
Tundra

So now I need to make some decisions and this is where I hope to have a constructive discussion.

Some things in my head at this point:
1 - the 3 PEARLS hexes may become very strong with Lighthouse, Harbor, Seaport and the COLOSSUS
2 - should I make sure to build the Colossus to maximise the Pearl hexes?
3 - Mountain = Observatory but must move and lose access to Pearls until I get a coastal city later on. Pearls stronger?
4 - Flood plains = hi pop = good science so maybe need to move next to the mountain?
5 - Flood plains + TP = $$$ and together with 3 Pearl and Colossus = BIG $$$. Better settle on the coast after all...
6 - River = water mill = even more pop!
7 - only 3 HILL tiles so far - possibly poor production city - may need to build second city quickly

VC at this time: UNDECIDED

Anybody care to comment?
I am curious to know what others think of my initial spawn point.
Thanks

 

[The Pilgrim]

Just curious: why the tiny map? Is it hardware constraint? Usually more trade partners = easier game. And why star bias disabled? As Russia you'd likely get lots of strategics and on tiny map it is really easy domination.

As for settling... By any means I'm not a deity vet, but I don't think I can get very wrong here.
Being limited by sea resources only sucks big time. I'd move warrior to check out the mountain and what's around it - probably more luxes. And if there are luxes and/or decent food move the settler there. Current spot will be good for second city. NE hill looks even better unless there are totally flat lands behind it.
On standard size map I'd never go for Colossus. Don't know about tiny though. What's your experience? Is completing it actually possible or there are high chances you're gonna be beaten to it?

 

[AxelRhodd]

Hey Pilgrim, great to c u here.

Tiny map because is just a preference. I just like smaller maps since I get to meet other Civs little bit quicker and also there is a greater chance of earlier conflict which makes things interesting - maybe on Deity - bit too interesting

I often disable Start Bias because I like to be surprised

I hardly ever build the Colossus but this 3 Pearls hexes makes want to go for it.
The Colossus is def not a favourite of AI on Deity so I think it is doable but I gotta have something to chop to have a chance.

Now the game.

I moved the warrior to the NE hill and I got the MARBLE but the rest is desert


Not sure about moving settler to find another spot. Is 2 turns of wandering around OK price to pay on Deity? Looks like I can only move south...
This spawn place looks crap - agree?

 

[The Pilgrim]

Ah yeah, you can be surprised with these settings. Quickly meeting Rome with 12 iron in the capital will make things really really interesting.
I still hope you'll reveal many strategic tiles to be able to capitalize russian UA. For me it's the best one for ancient era.

Actually what I meant was to move warrior south and to settle NE hill with second city.
I don't like starts like this. It's not a complete crap but you don't really know what to do with it. IMO, wondering around for 2-3 turns is ok if you find a better spot and is a devastating waste if you don't. Given the current situation there is probably more desert to the east and some plains to the south. At least it's looks promising strategics-wise.
I think I'd settle in place, beeline IW and go shed some blood. If you manage to build the Colossus and Machu Picchu, that won't be crappy start anymore. No idea if this is possible. Have never noticed when they're usually built b/c I never aim for them myself. Go with your guts I guess. What's the worst thing can happen, right?

 

[AxelRhodd]

Yep
I'll play few turns and get back in here in 12 hours or so... gotta sleep sometime

 

[Tabarnak]

Move warrior on hill to the right. Probably settle on hill and go for a 4 cities sword rush. Cripple 1st civ with iron then Steel for 2nd civ. Finish with crossbows for 3rd. Care to send initial file?

 

[AxelRhodd]

Ah Monsieur Tabarnak, Thank you for joining in
I will attach the initial save but little bit later.

TURN 1:



Booo! More desert
Being a tiny map I decided to produce second Warrior.
I find that on tiny map getting an early Scout is not as crucial as on larger maps.
Also with higher probability of an early DOW I need to be ready sooner rather than later...
Wheat on the desert yields 1 lol
Production in this city gonna be an issue...

TURN 10:

Greece! I can expect an early DOW from Alex so I will concentrate on researching IW ASAP and getting swords if Im lucky to find iron close by That works well with my intention to built Colossus.
Also note how there are not any more Luxes apart from extra Marble.



Decided to go for BW. This will give access to Colossus and Spearmen. Spearmen are needed to defend against Alex's Companion Cavalry. Then onto IW!

So thats my play so far.
Have I made any horrible mistakes already or is my thought process solid at this stage?
Cheers.

 

[Realyn]

This is a incredible good start. You simply have to get away from the "my capital has to be a powerhorse" thinkingfrom civ4.

Please don't research BW and IW. it will make your start even more slow. Archers and warriors are enough to defend against CC from Alex.

Try this: Go scout, monument, worker. Try to finish liberty asap. Settle 2 or 3 cities in strong defensive positions. Research masonry and hook up the first marble. Then safe yourself some cash and once you have researched fishing after masorny you buy your first workboat, sell pearls and (buy borders, if needed) buy your second workboat. Repeat for a third time.

edit: And don't even think about something silly like the colossus on deity .

 

[AxelRhodd]

@ Realyn
Thanks. I will reload the initial save and try what u suggesting in parallel with the current version of events.
Also I will check out your Deity LP to see how you do it.

 

[The Pilgrim]

@ Realyn
Thanks. I will reload the initial save and try what u suggesting in parallel with the current version of events.
Also I will check out your Deity LP to see how you do it.

Not good for comparison. He plays huge continent type maps. Having only 4 opponents on pangaea quick rush is a no brainer. Especially when you know for sure Alex is gonna DoW you. Why to play defensive? There are high chances iron is hiding in those deserts and some horses to the south too. Explore down the river and settle your second city on strategics and counterattack.

 

[Realyn]

Hum, think Pilgrim is right. I did read you played tiny, but somehow thought it was 6 or 7 civ's. What I wrote is indeed far better suited for larger maps. But I would still be curious how it's going if you try out my approach.

Personally just started a large map today with Korea. Looks like I'm going for a GL-NC start .

 

[AxelRhodd]

So just to remind:
The map is tiny Pangea with 5 civs and only 5 CS. Also the sea level is low.

Next caps are made after 25th turn is completed.
Got 3 Warriors
Met Greece down south, Sydney south west and The Iroquois west of Greece.
Also came across egyptian scout.

North of Moscow turned out disappointing as expected unless there is good quantity of IRON in those forest hexes.
Will know iron situation in 13 turns.

Opened up LIBERTY and will have worker soon to help with the Colossus.
Maybe I should have researched Masonry before IW and build a quarry with the free worker to reduce cost of Colossus?
I think I will get Colossus quicker if I just chop the forrest.







@Realyn
I have played first 25 turns using your suggested strategy. I will post my results soon.
Also could you please elaborate on 2 issues:
- Why do you believe that the initial spawn represents an 'incredibly good start'?
- What do you consider 'strong defensive positions' for cities. Do you see any on my map so far? Is Moscow in strong defensive position?

 

[The Pilgrim]

Opened up LIBERTY and will have worker soon to help with the Colossus.
Maybe I should have researched Masonry before IW and build a quarry with the free worker to reduce cost of Colossus?

From Colossus point of view you probably should have. But from getting yourself in better overall position definitely not. IMO, finding iron asap is the number one priority.
The problem with Colossus is also it'll take a big effort to hook up all those pearls. Lots of time and hammers/money. But since you're already heading there... And I'm selfishly just curios how wonder situation goes on tiny maps.

- What do you consider 'strong defensive positions' for cities. Do you see any on my map so far? Is Moscow in strong defensive position?

Moscow in great defensive position. It can hardly get any better. Not that it matters too much since Alex will come from south and likely will go for one of the later cities first. But if we put that aside, Moscow is on top of the hill and across the river. It's also defended by the mountain. So in order to avoid attacking across the river he'll need to get around it and will lose a lot of time moving through southern hills. If you place units at hills by your capital it'll be a huge pain to take it. Unit on sheep will provide some ZOC as well. And on top of everything you're not sandwiched in central area of the map between multiple opponents which always makes life easier.

 

[Thresian]

Any chance you could upload the save, so we could have a go?

 

[Realyn]

@Realyn
I have played first 25 turns using your suggested strategy. I will post my results soon.
Also could you please elaborate on 2 issues:
- Why do you believe that the initial spawn represents an 'incredibly good start'?
- What do you consider 'strong defensive positions' for cities. Do you see any on my map so far? Is Moscow in strong defensive position?

Hello,

well, 5 luxury is very rare. The downside is obviously that 3 of them are pearls and you most likely don't have that much trading partners. It really is a very slow start. But certainly not a bad one.

Moscow is really safe like Pilgrim explained. Instead of a "good defensive position" you might also call it a spot that makes the AI go mad. And mountains do that most of the time. Three good spots from my recent LP:

Spoiler :

On your map a city between the top 2 sheeps should be easily defended. You can put archers on the hills and a warrior or two in front.
Try to make mountains, hills and rivers work for you.

 

[AxelRhodd]

Thanks for all the replies.
I have now attached the initial save file. I hope I did this correctly.
BTW what is the easiest way to show my screen caps in full size? Do I need to have the images hosted to do that?
View attachment Catherine_0000 BC-4000CF.Civ5Save

 

[AxelRhodd]

Here are screen caps of the game played as per Realyn. It is bit too early to say how the 2 games compare but nevertheless I was curious to go against my own instincts and ignore army building and the Colossus at this early stage.







So I built scout, monument, worker instead of warrior, monument, warrior.
I was able to explore bit more with the Scout and actually find Egypt too.

As you can see on turn 25 I am at the point of choosing my second SP and new research.
Realyn suggested I settle 2-3 cities so I will choose the free Settler
He also suggested I:
'Research masonry and hook up the first marble. Then safe yourself some cash and once you have researched fishing after masorny you buy your first workboat, sell pearls and (buy borders, if needed) buy your second workboat. Repeat for a third time.'
So I will choose Sailing.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Disgusting map for my taste.
No luxes to settle. Founding city between two sheep will cause Alex to enter 'build zillions of units' mode. Although probably he's entered it by now. Does he covet your lands already?
I say let your UA work for you. BW+IW+AH. And settle on eastern fish +3 oasis + wheat. Not a great place but likely has iron close by. After getting some you can settle down the river safely.

 

[Realyn]

That's really a tough map. I would settle in the north(there was a luxury right) and between the 2 sheeps. Then go Archery/BW/IW next and get ready for a war.

edit:I would work the sheeps in your capital. You need the production.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Ah gosh, forgot about the furs. Was really intrigued how is it possible you have so few luxes around. Settle them. Iron chances as well. Totally of the tech path though.