Help Me Suck Less: The Court of High Queen Isabella

[mtr12]

Her true strength is the Treb wars and Cannon + random clean up crew wars.

Treb Wars are slow...Rifle/Cannon is always solid, but requires a stronger position to win from than Conqs do.

 

[vranasm]

great story.

Around T40 is good time to stop and think about the way you want to achieve your victory. Given it's monarch diff and I think pangea? it is given you will go for some military victory.

I can see there 2 more good spots on your map, 1 is 2N above grass cow on river north west from Seville, which grabs corn, 3+ hills and a lot of mountains (the mountains are just joke ;-))
The other is 2E from the wet rice south of your capital. again grabs food, some hills and is eventually good after getting rid of the riverside jungle.

Don't tech IW... maybe selfteching Alpha is better plan... with rep scientists it could be good target.

I am not fun of your way of settling the Stone and building the Mids. But the date (T76) isn't that bad even for Emperor. On higher levels it could be risky.
I think you could have settle stone city 1NW of stone and another city then 1S of your 2nd city.
stone city would have 2x oasis 1st ring and stone. Still loses out a bit on time (you need to build the quarry which is something like 8 turns), but is quicker since you don't need to build monument and wait 10 turns for border pop, delaying the stone for a long time compared to settling stone 1st ring.
The quickest is of course settling directly on stone.

The distances seem a bit big for BC warfare and you're behind the curve anyway.

Not sure how deep you are into your first GP, but I think you lag a bit behind with no library yet (I didn't check the save)

I would wait how the iron will turn out while aiming for the 2 cities I mentioned, farming everything, building couple of libraries and running scientists after you grow into new happy cap of Rep.

Alpha, Currency you should reach in BC's. There is no natural commerce so you need to rely on scientists and not overexpand.

 

[Rubio]

I would settle 1W of gems.... puts more pressure on Ghandi and guarantees you the gems... Stonehenge helps here as you'll get a quick enough border pop for the copper....

 

[Archbob]

Wow, you built SH. I don't think I ever build that really(unless I have stone). I always try to get a second and 3rd city out as soon as you can.

 

[WelshGandalf]

Firstly about the pyramids. Did you start building it/chopping for it before you hooked up the stone? If so then you should've waited for the stone - it wouldn't have been long (about 6 turns wait from the look of your screenshots?) and would've doubled the hammers gained from every chop. In the meantime you could've squeezed out an extra settler perhaps.

Agree Seville should go 1NW. It was obvious to me at first glance that it should go there - others have explained why. Such instinct comes with experience I guess.

I would also re-emphasise the point that you should always be working your best tiles (that was the thing that stuck out like a sore thumb from your first round) and that you can do that by building other cities. Madrid doesn't really need that corn too much so I would say either 2E of it for gems & silk too, or 2S1E of it to grab the copper too. I would save the rice for maybe 1E2S of it so you can have a coastal & riverside city (plan for that one would be a few farms & running scientists).

Longer term, I don't think early war is a great idea, I would build up your economy to be a sweet rep-powered thing (it definately has the potential), get GS bulbs to speed you towards conquisitors, and then set forth on a mission of splatting things.

It's a fun read anyhow. Keep it up

 

[The Oz-Man]

Yeah, Seville 1NW is definitely better. I'm kicking myself over it. I still don't think the current site is bad, but oy. What might have been.

I've been thinking about how best to use the corn, and I'm wondering if another interesting spot might be 2S1E of it on that plains forest. It'll require some jungle chopping, but I think there's a good production site under there, and it ropes in the copper without being one off the coast like my previous site. That'll also make room for another city to primarily work the rice, probably 1S2W of it.

If I go with this plan, though, I'm basically committing to an early war with Gandhi to get a city to work both his corn and the gems. He has, I believe, 3 cities at the end of the round, and we may be able to put a dent in him early if we hurry up. The good news is that no one else is Hindu and the game's two biggest warmongers hate his guts, so there won't be any real diplomatic consequences with anyone of import.

Is that plausible? I know Gandhi's not too likely to build a whole bunch of units, so straight-up overpowering him shouldn't be too difficult if we jump at it quickly.

For those who asked, I'm primarily researching IW so I can start expanding toward the jungle. Is that not a good idea? Getting the workers together to chop that up shouldn't be too arduous a task thanks to Madrid being kind of a ridiculous production city.

Yes, I started the 'Mids before I hooked up the stone. I didn't know that stone multiplied the chops, too! Something I'll have to keep in mind for next time.

Since I'm (rightfully, I think) being accused of burying my strategy between layers of narrative, let's talk about it a bit. Since the Fractal script has handed us what feels like a Pangea-esque map or close to it, I'm thinking of heading towards a violent end for the game, most likely either Conquest (if our sixth rival is somewhere on this land mass) or Diplomation of some kind (if he/she isn't). Major wars will likely come post-Conquistadors, but if I get a tech lead I might shoot for something in the Maces/Trebs era, most likely against Sitting Bull or Pacal (or Gandhi if we don't kill him early). In the short term this will mean settling some good sites quickly, building infrastructure, and (possibly, though I did bungle this last time) teching towards CoL to run Caste System and get some Rep-powered specialists running all over the place. This will mean settling most non-scientist GPs for Rep bonuses (with Seville or one of the cities in the south as a science/Academy/Oxford city) with the possible exception of using a 'Mids-fueled Engineer to grab a wonder (Parthenon maybe? I always love the MoM, too). Keep teching, court some allies, then come back with some horse units and set the world on fire.

Does that sound good or plausible?

I'll try to let you guys more into my plans before the rounds go up in case I get too caught up telling the story and leave out the actual game context (which is, again, supposed to be the point, even if I lose sight of that sometimes). I'm trying to put more space between the rounds due to the increased difficulty levels, and I appreciate you guys pulling through with your thoughts and comments.

Thanks again!

 

[WelshGandalf]

I've been thinking about how best to use the corn, and I'm wondering if another interesting spot might be 2S1E of it on that plains forest. It'll require some jungle chopping, but I think there's a good production site under there, and it ropes in the copper without being one off the coast like my previous site. That'll also make room for another city to primarily work the rice, probably 1S2W of it.

You, sir, have failed the "read the post before yours properly" achievement. Here, I'll make it easy for you.

Madrid doesn't really need that corn too much so I would say either 2E of it for gems & silk too, or 2S1E of it to grab the copper too. I would save the rice for maybe 1E2S of it so you can have a coastal & riverside city (plan for that one would be a few farms & running scientists).

(OK OK so the rice city wasn't exactly the same... mine's better though )

I don't understand why this means you're committing to a war with Gandhi though. Is he really going to declare on you because of your close borders?

Personally I don't see an issue with self-researching IW, but there are a lot of better players in this thread than me.

 

[The Oz-Man]

I see that now. In my defense I did come up with it after having read your post and forgotten about it. Or maybe it was subconscious? Dun-dun-dunnnnnnnnnnnnn.

I don't understand why this means you're committing to a war with Gandhi though. Is he really going to declare on you because of your close borders?

Basically, I want a city to work the gems (Obviously--they're grassland gems on a riverside!), and the two nearest food sources are my corn or Gandhi's. 2W of the gems would work them, but it denies the food to the copper-nabbing city, which means food is uncertain for that one (We could farm over the grassland to get growth, of course, but that'll require a few farms to get the city up to a good size quickly.). It's impossible to build a city that grabs the corn, gems, and copper, and we of course want to work all three.

Essentially, Gem City (Dayton, Ohio?) needs food, and the two best sources--barring some bananers or something down in the fog--are the two corns. We can do a city that works Madrid's corn and the gems, but it'll make the copper city a little awkward if it works the nearby rice (one off the coast). Ergo, we'll have to go get Gandhi's corn from him.

Does that make sense?

 

[CreeDakota]

I would not tech IRon working now and I would not settle most of that jungle.

I would settle that corn/cow+alot of hills city next for sure. Its a great production site. Next if it is still open the corn/gold site to the NE. This would nearly completely box in Lakota. Boxing him in is a much better option than warring with him.

In contrast warring with Gandhi is easy. Settle toward The Bull and Pacal. Open borders with Pacal and then Adopt Buddism and if necassary spread it to BUll to secure your borders to the north and west with friends on both sides.

Then plan to attack the Gandhi. When depends on your final victory goal but HArchers built during a Police state period sounds good if you can get to him pre longbow.

 

[The Oz-Man]

I've never tried a HA rush (except with Keshiks), so I might give that a shot with Gandhi. I tend to want to axe and sword and catapult people to death, so going for a different type of war might be an interesting exercise.

 

[learner gamer]

Re: IW. There are a few keys here IMHO. FWIW, I asked because I wanted to ascertain how many of the following were part of your thinking. If not, hopefully the following tips might help you in a future game.

(i) IW will enable you to clear the jungle but alpha opens up the possibility of trading for techs like (i) poly for temples and extra happiness and (ii) mono for monasteries and faster research.

(ii) According to the demographics screen, you are first in GNP. The meaning of this figure is explained here: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/demographics.php

IMHO, this figure is worth looking at in the early stages of the game because it can provide you with a very rough indicator of your research rate relative to everyone else on the map. It is however worth noting that the quality of this proxy can deteriorate as the game progresses.

To improve the insight provided by this data, we can proceed by subtracting the value of the culture generated by your early wonders (22) from your GNP (54), to arrive at 32, which suggests IMHO that you’re researching at roughly the same rate as the other AI at this early stage (since none of them are creative). As a result, there is a non-negligible chance IMHO (although how high is difficult to quantify) that, even if you had gone alpha early, you’d get it before a rival civ got IW....and, crucially, was willing to trade it (see point (iv) below).

As a very general rule, the lower your early GNP is relative to your rivals, the more attractive going early alpha is....since you’ll be more likely to be able to trade for better techs.

(iii) Diplo. CreeDakota was spot on IMHO – diplo is going to be key here. Shaka is already annoyed with Bull and Gandhi. This means that if Gandhi were to be teching IW early for instance, you’d be potentially incurring the wrath of Shaka by trading with him. Given the diplo situation, you are probably best looking at getting IW (assuming you had gone alpha) from Boudica (who may get it to access her UU) or Pacal (who’s a good techer thanks to his financial trait).

(iv) Tendency to trade. Boudica will consider trading a tech if at least 30% of the AI she’s met have it, Gandhi 20%, Pacal and Shaka 50%. In light of your GNP position, how likely is it that you’ll be able to trade for IW (assuming you go early alpha) from a target that’s not going to cause you unnecessary diplo angst?

(v) In light of (iii), you might argue that you should’ve been focussing your EP on a rival to ascertain if they were teching early IW.

(vi) You have a settler ready in 1T - presumably for the gems spot? - and IW is now due in 10 turns.

In aggregate, I’d suggest these points – especially (iii) (iv) (vi) – assuming the settler’s for the gems spot - and possibly (ii) favour finishing IW rather than commencing alpha.

Re: war plans. This is one area I previously found a little confusing – there was talk of war but no discussion of what units or era you were looking to wage war in. Thanks for the subsequent info re: two possibilities (i) cuirassiers and (ii) HAs. Both are possible IMHO because Gandhi builds so few units.

Before you firm up on these plans however, I’d suggest exploring the land around you a little more, both to ascertain whether you have more good land still available to settle (as per CreeDakota’s excellent post) and the proximity of the various AI relative to you and each other. Taking this path might mean passing on the HA rush – it depends, as CreeDakota notes, on if you can war pre-LBs; but I note that jumbos are seemingly available and that they are highly effective when paired with catapults – assuming the jumbo city is a good city site worth settling for instance.

IMHO, the timing of the war will be influenced by the location of the warmongers in relation to Gandhi. His low unit prob could make him an easy target, meaning CreeDakota has it spot on.

 

[The Oz-Man]

Chapter 3
The Cunning Use of Flags​

Goals for this Round:

* Build infrastructure to better leverage Representation (short-term)
* Establish cities to grab resources and establish borders (all round)
* Scout jungle land and possible future military conquests (all round)
* Beef up military so as not to invite the wrath of Shaka and Boudica, with Barcelona and possibly a second city serving as unit pumps (all round)
* Use (and build) cheap workers to improve land (as needed)
* Plan the first war (end of the round)

Going to supplement the story with this to help you guys see where my mind is. By the end of this round, we'll have three more cities, we'll have a seventh on the way, and we'll have what is--I think--our first military target planned.

Isabella nodded at her advisers' counsel. The Maya's Buddhist faith could establish itself in Spain's borders if only Isabella would open her heart. She invited Pacal into her new palace and, over mutton from Barcelona, agreed to open Spanish borders for trade.

The Pyramids were more than just a diplomatic hub; they were a means for the High Queen to take care of bidness. Seeing that her own counselors had aided in the establishment of her new throne, she created a new High Parliament, expanding her government's influence and potential. Representatives from Seville and Barcelona traveled to the capital to promote their people's interest and entreat upon the High Queen to tend to the cities' needs.

The representative government helped show Isabella the power of spreading her sphere of influence beyond the hills of Spain. To that end, her newly recruited Charioteers sought to explore the wider world.

(Just showing you guys something I missed in the last screenshot: yes, there is a more convenient food source for that copper, and yes, it's still available by the end of the round if we want it. Best of all, we can use it to grab elephants.)

The scheming Boudica then traveled to Madrid and sought a similar arrangement to the one proposed by the Maya.

Isabella considered this carefully and agreed; while Boudica's warriors were frothing at the mouth for war, and opening borders would expose Spain's sparsely defended cities to opportunistic Celtic raiders, long-term diplomacy was a priority. It would do no good to enrage the Celtic chief at this juncture.

As Isabella wined and dined the wider world, meanwhile, plans continued apace to unlock the secrets of Iron Working. The jungles of the south could be tamed, and while the hills sparkled with Gems, there was no way to reach them without first cutting away at the thick jungles surrounding them. Isabella secretly hoped that this tough new metal would be found within her own borders, but for now, her Chariots were sufficient defense.

And defense would indeed be necessary, as Settlers from Barcelona trekked northward, founding Cordoba on the border of the sacred Lakota lands.

While the Gems of the mountains would be helpful, there was no way to properly acquire them. Cordoba's glimmering Gold, however, would serve the Spanish Empire in the shorter term, both to strengthen Spain's economic core and to increase the opulence of her cities.

(Plus, of course, Mound City was right there. Pushing Bull in this way keeps him off the coast. His land looks kind of lousy, but I forgot to scout it this round. Definitely an early goal next time!)

From the distant East, a new band of Archers approached the borders of Spain. Isabella dispatched her chariots, fearing that these gray-clad warriors were kin to the jungle Barbarians. They were, however, flanked by their chief, a hard-nosed elder statesman and general of the German people.

(Ouch. From my experience, Freddie is a top-tier AI who tends to build a ton of units. The good news is he seems to be pretty far away, so there's that.)

As Libraries sprang up across the empire, two milestones established themselves in Spain:

The meditative Mayan faith took root in Madrid, and Isabella herself made a show of converting to the faith, strengthening the bond with the Maya. The spirits of the Buddha blessed this new covenant, revealing a rich vein of Iron within the borders of the empire!

The exploring chariots discovered the blessed Celtic lands, where a heavy wall threatened all who dared approach.

(Yup, Boudica built the Great Wall. Looks like we won't get it until it's largely irrelevant considering how far away Boudica is.)

Seeing Isabella's chariots leave Spanish lands and fuming at the Spanish miners extracting gold from what he felt was rightly his lands, Sitting Bull--flanked by his Dog Soldiers--approached the Pyramids with a grim offer.

The High Queen relented with a smirk. Sitting Bull was welcome to the grains of Cordoba; she knew that true strength lay in her precious stones.

And indeed, Isabella sought more of those precious stones in short order.

(Gem city was as discussed--I stuck it a little to the south so I could farm that grassland under the jungle to help feed it. I built Santiago as a secondary unit pump; it can borrow some of Madrid's food to grow. In hindsight, I'm not a huge fan of it--too many plains--but it has some potential, irrigation will be a breeze, and it'll help open us up to settling southwest if we decide to.)

Still the chiefs arrived. Shaka, hearing of Isabella and Boudica's budding relationship, decided that he wanted in on that action.

Ow-owwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Around this time, a Great Prophet born in Madrid--meditating in the sacred circle of Stonehenge--traveled to Seville, settling himself in the city to increase production and collect taxes for the empire. (Didn't get a picture of this!)

Pacal, meanwhile, hooked up the hookah and made a hilarious bid for the secret of heavy metals.

Boudica was much more accommodating.

(Yeah, I did it for the diplo. We're largely in good with the Maya, and as you can see, Boudica converted! This will of course influence what we decide to do next round, since religion is going to play a key part.)

Seeing the Indians' Jewish faith establishing itself in Celtia, the High Queen sought an ambassadorial mission to Mahatma Gandhi's lands, traveling to the Indian capital by chariot.

What she found was an opulent harbor city, rich in resources and surrounded by lush forests, the holy city of both the Hindu and Jewish faiths.

(Yowza! This is one of many, many reasons why I think we need to war with Gandhi sooner rather than later. That's a very nice city, a double holy city, and--I think--a pretty swank GP farm. We're definitely on a timetable to wrest it away from him, though, as you'll see.)

Thucycidididieieidiedes or whatever made us scared.

Still, the Axemen roaming Spanish lands, coupled with her distance from the warlike Celts and Zulu, meant that Isabella felt, by and large, safe.

Bolstered by her people's research into establishing a unified Spanish peseta, Isabella turned to her counselors. War was coming. While she had done her best to establish peace with the war-chiefs of the distant East, two targets still connived and sniveled at her borders.

She would make one of them pay.

(I'll show you where we stand shortly!)

 

[The Oz-Man]

State of the World at 375 BC:

As with last time, with Currency comes a fairly solvent economy! Hey, you know what will make it even more solvent? Taking Gandhi's nice cities. So let's do that.

First of all, techs!

HBR would be fairly quick to pick up. Maths will also let us move toward Construction for Catapults, and since Delhi is already at 60% culture, a Cat/Sword/Axe war might be the way to go. The religious techs will go pretty quickly, but as you'll see, we can also get them in trade if we want to.

Gandhi, though, has to go quickly, and it's not just because Boudica's nearby; it's because he's on the clock to get a fairly nice defensive tech, and I think he's teching faster than me.

Here's Spain:

We have a Settler raring to go in Madrid, and also our second GP: a Great Engineer! He'll bulb Metal Casting for us if we want. No wonders are available; we can tech in that direction if we want, but to be honest I'm not inclined to. Maybe settle him in Madrid for more production and Rep-fueled beakers?

Here's south of Spain:

A city either 1E or 1SE of that copper would be a real monster in the long-term, I think. Navajo is also a really nice barb city, but if we get it I'll definitely want to put a buffer city between it and Spain proper to connect everything together. Maybe let Pacal take it and develop it? Or should we put a forward base in place to cut Pacal off and stake our claim?

That nice cow spot that CreeDakota mentioned is still open if you think we should cut off Sitting Bull, but that copper city is my first inclination just because it's so attractive. What do you guys think?

Demographics:

Now that I can better read this (thanks, learner gamer!), I think it's safe to say that Gandhi is teching ahead of us. Not good. Another reason why I want him gone.

For the record, his easternmost cities are right on the spot where the Zulu and Celtic borders meet, so taking him will mean we're expanding toward the nastiest people on the map. We may have a way around that, of course...

City micro! First, Madrid:

Trying to implement those lessons on vertical growth this time. Madrid's a great capital and pretty versatile; it's able to feed those scientists easily while still being a production monster and sharing food.

Seville:

Just added that scientist. Should I, or do you think it'd be better to let it grow into those cottages? It's still growing at a nice pace. Axeman there is sort of a placeholder build, but it'll bump up our power rating a bit and hopefully help keep the warmongers off our backs.

Barcelona:

This has been our unit pump, and it's done okay in that respect. I think other cities will grow past it in no time, but it may have saved us from war with Bull.

Toledo, or Gem City:

Not much happening there yet. Borders have just expanded, so I've got a worker getting the gems online. It may have cultural problems with Gandhi if we don't... solve them soon.

I thought I took one of Cordoba, too, but I didn't! It's growing up nicely, working the oasis, the gold, and the food-heavy tiles. Still lots of growth potential, and it's got some okay early production going thanks to the hills.

Santiago:

...should probably borrow Madrid's cows to grow, I think. Yeah, my micro there is actually pretty lousy now that I'm looking at it. Chopping that forest SW of the oasis and getting a farm up there will help a lot.

Info screen to show you what I've been up to:

7 workers for 6 cities isn't enough; I'll get on that early in the next round, especially if we build the copper city.

Tech screen!

Yup, Gandhi has Metal Casting and is on the clock to get Crossbows AND Feudalism to get Longbows. I don't think we're doing too badly except vis-a-vis Gandhi, but nobody wants to trade us much.

Pacal will give up a little bit for Alpha:

...and Gandhi will basically backfill my whole dang coffers for Currency:

...but I'm not inclined to do that since we're about to kill him. Maybe go in, take a couple of cities (especially Delhi!), and then extort him for techs once he's good and trapped? Then rebuild and take his easternmost city?

So who likes Gandhi?

Sitting Bull and Freddie do! Luckily, Sitting Bull's a jerk and Freddie's way off in Australia or something.

And just because I haven't ruled it out completely yet because he's starting to irritate me, here's how everyone views Sitting Bull:

Hmmm.

Sit Rep, what do you think?

Heh heh heh.

So next round will be, I think, about building up to kill Gandhi. We're on a definite time table, though, and I'm afraid that we're not going to be able to do what we need to do in time. If Boudica or Shaka declare, he'll definitely start teching defensively; if I take too long, he might do so anyway. If we can just get far enough in there to slow him down significantly, though, we'll be in good shape. That move, I believe, starts with taking care of Delhi.

As far as diplomacy goes, taking Delhi will also give us a Jewish city! I'm thinking of switching into Judaism the very first chance I get; the sooner we can start building relations with Shaka and Boudica, the better. There's a definite Jewish bloc here; joining it could make our lives a lot easier.

Here's the save. Am I screwed?

Thanks!

 

[CreeDakota]

Workers! Then two more workers. I would settle Corn cow to the NW as next city. It will take alot less worker turns than Jungle copper/Rice to get up and running.

Seville should be buiding infastructure not units. And it should grow cottages instead of the scientist. Working a single mine to get buildings up is reasonable too.

I would go ahead and settle the Engineer in either capital or Seville.

You are coming up to the pivotal point in the game. War against Gandhi is a good plan. Fear not his x-bows or longbows. Shaka will likley declare on him soonish and while he is distracted pounce on his exposed flank!

I agree with teching math next with an Eye toward catapults and a dream about war elephants.

Thinking very long term: Wipe gandhi off the map, convert to Judaism and befriend the war mongers, backstab the smiling Pacal and Vassal him, wipe Sitting Bull off the Map, Sic Boudica on Freddy Then backstab her with a goal of vassaling. Then Finally you and all your vassals take on Shaka for a true World war showdown!

 

[The Oz-Man]

I should mention this now: I tried sort of a test run of the next round just to see if Gandhi was indeed teching towards longbows and x-bows (mostly because of my own paranoia). Things... sort of snowballed from there, and I ended up playing a complete round.

That said, it was a very good round, lots of nice things happened, and we're on a much better footing.

I'll put the gist of it in spoilers so you guys can decide if I should replay it or just go forward:

Spoiler :

Two things motivated my playing forward: Boudica and Shaka converted to Hinduism, and Bombay's culture took the gems. Gandhi also had a settler hanging out threatening to move SW. Not wanting to follow him all over the place, I blocked him off, declared war with what I had, and basically rushed to put together an army. The end result of the war is that Gandhi is dead, we have his four very nice cities (two holy cities!), and we have a clear next military target in mind.

Do you want me to just post that? I know the goal is to get better via feedback, but I think what happened went very well. Maybe just a preliminary "next round" with the possibility of actually taking it back?

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Treb Wars are slow...Rifle/Cannon is always solid, but requires a stronger position to win from than Conqs do.

??????????????? Have you ever done a Treb war with CR3 trebs? I think you are just falling into the stagnant war tactics trap of CFC.

 

[CreeDakota]

just post what you have.

 

[The Oz-Man]

Chapter 4(?)
Bad Karma​

Goals for this Round:

* Wage a really impulsive war
* Make CreeDakota mad, probably (I don't normally do this, man! And I do really appreciate the advice you've given and am on the verge of founding the awesome city you suggested next round. You know how "one more turn" gets sometimes. )
* Beat on a guy until that kid from that one Simpsons episodes goes, "Stooop! Stop! he's already dead!"
* Diplomacy maybe?

This round was fairly quick--only another 25 rounds or so. Like I said, it was sort of impulsive. I started a kind of preemptive round just to see if Gandhi was on the tech path to getting nasty defensive units online, and then... well.

The story of the Spanish-Indian War begins simply enough: with a lunatic setting up shop in the mining city of Madrid, forging raw metals into crude devices that he swore could revolutionize communication.

Bell's early inventions in this time could best be described as "iron cans on the end of string," but in these early days, this was a revolutionary concept.

25 years later, shocking news came from the East. The village of Toledo--one of Spain's newest settlements--had been established at the borders of Indian lands to bring precious Gems into the empire. Workers had gone to the spot where the gems lay and begun tearing away the jungle that covered them. These lands were to be Spanish, Isabella announced to the world, and the gems of the jungle were to be hers!

Gandhi, however, had other ideas.

India's famous Fast Workers--armed with crude clubs and weapons--dashed to the spot where the gems lay and set to work from nearby Bombay, driving the Spanish slaves back towards Toledo. It was by their sheer numbers that the mines were taken. Gandhi, when pressed about the matter, pleaded ignorance; however, he would allow no Spanish Workers to return to the gems.

This, of course, could not be.

Throughout Spanish lands, workshops were set to the task of crafting swords and axes, and new soldiers were recruited. Research into Mathematics continued apace with the hopes of military applications to come. And the jungle city of Salamanca was founded at India's southwestern border, cutting off Gandhi's expansionist tendencies.

Indeed, the founding was a close call.

(Since I'd committed to war, I didn't feel like having to chase Gandhi all over the country. Salamanca was a little slow to start, but it's starting to roll now, and it kept Gandhi nice and bottled in. That Settler did end up refounding in... not a bad spot, and as you'll see, it's valuable for other reasons.)

Gandhi, sensing the High Queen's rage, sought to share knowledge, promising her a handsome reward and the secrets of the shipwrights for her new Mathematical prowess.

The offer was rejected, and Gandhi was sent sulking back to his palace.

Troubling news continued for Spain. Boudica and Shaka--whom the High Queen had hoped to court as allies--had converted from Judaism to Gandhi's Hindu faith! While they remained Cautious with the Indian king, Isabella had no doubt that the bonds of faith between them would grow, particularly with the zealous Boudica. To put off the war further would run the risk of inflaming the warlords that she had hoped would become future allies.

And Gandhi's Fast Workers had, thankfully, finished clearing that jungle.

The time to strike had come. The High Queen dialed up Gandhi on the Bell Communicator, even as the toughs who had driven Spanish miners from the Gems site suddenly saw the hill crested by the first wave of Isabella's army...

It was a patchwork force, to be sure, with troops from across the empire joining forces with Isabella's scouting Chariots, which had been refitted for military purposes. But Spanish intelligence showed that Gandhi was weak. He could not be allowed to grow.

As new forces continued to pour into Indian lands, the makeshift army found itself at the gates of Bombay.

With siege engines still a few years off, the Spanish army opened with a flanking attack from the scouting chariots... that did very little. Seeing the failure of this early attack, Spanish Axemen tore into the city, fighting tooth and nail against the entrenched defenders.

Losses were heavy; however, victory did not take long.

Bombay was kept as a forward base, opening roadways and allowing Spanish troops to hurry to the front.

Isabella made a small (and somewhat unfair) trade to Boudica to help purchase cheap garrisons for the city.

That same year, King Gandhi himself, flanked by the high priests of the Hindu faith, traveled to Madrid by horse, their saddlebags bursting with gold. Gandhi was a pragmatic man, and he could see that the loss of the gems had troubled the High Queen. With a humble bow, he offered the gift to Isabella.

"This should account for the losses you have suffered from the... incident with the gems," he said. "Please. We are but simple folk. We have so much more to offer the Spanish Empire if you would but spare my people."

But the High Queen could see the hidden terror in his eyes. She rose from her throne, flanked by two burly "Senators" from the city of Barcelona. She glared down at the still-kowtowing Indian king.

"Your faith teaches of karmic retribution," she sneered. "I think it is time that you took its lessons to heart... as I have as well."

Still, as Gandhi and his priests sulked back to India, news traveled far and wide that the meeting had been something of a success. The word in international circles was that, while peace was not negotiated, the High Queen had indeed been baptized in the Hindu faith. However, secretly, Isabella knew the truth. Her conversion was nominal... a facade. Only by converting to the Hindu faith could she control it... and she would, indeed, control it soon.

(Currying favor with the warmongers' bloc here. I think the Buddhists are going to have to go soon.)

Gandhi's Settlers--once again seeking to impinge on Spanish lands--found themselves met in the forests by Spanish Swordsmen marching to the front.

The Settler retreated to Vijayanagara to the northeast, where they were never heard from again.

(...until later on when he became a Worker! )

At last, Isabella's army arrived at Delhi, where the Indian king made his strongest stand to date... which wasn't saying much.

Rather than building strong garrison units, Gandhi opted instead to flaunt his newfound knowledge of Horseback Riding. The fleet Horse Archers of Delhi had the potential to be a quick-striking force, riding where no infantry could keep up. They could do this... on offense. In defending a city, they fared much more poorly.

The battle was fierce and bloody, but it was brief, and the High Queen traveled to Delhi in disguise to inspect her winnings amidst the chaos of the city's capture.

(No Jewish shrine yet! We can probably sort that out. Generating Great Prophets shouldn't be much of a challenge if we want to considering how many religions we have floating around.)

Seeing that Isabella now sat as mistress of the Hindu faith, Frederick of Germany overcame his earlier misgivings about the Spanish-Indian War.

The newly crafted Catapults of Barcelona, meanwhile, descended at last on Vijayanagara.

The new siege weaponry had put an end to the bloody battles of Bombay and Delhi, and the attackers were able to tear the city apart with impunity.

Isabella did still more deals to build the Hindu faithful from a squabbling band of city-states into a defined, trustworthy bloc.

(We also gifted Polytheism to Shaka to try to get him up from Cautious. It didn't work. Ah, well, he can have it anyway. I've got another idea for improving relations with him next round anyway.)

In Barcelona, an Indian-born general of Gandhi's forces, one Chandragupta Maurya, saw the writing on the wall for his king and joined the Winning Team(TM).

He settled in Barcelona's Barracks to help train additional troops.

There was but one city left. Gandhi offered the world--a far more generous offering than he had ever offered before--in the interests of peace. New technologies could arrive in Isabella's land, and Gandhi would be crushed forever, doubtless to serve under the boot-heel of a nearby warlord in the near future.

Unfortunately for him, Isabella could allow no such thing. A period of peace would allow the sniveling little sycophant the chance to throw in with Shaka and Boudica. An additional declaration of war beyond that point could indeed inflame the very people Isabella hoped to have as allies.

And--perhaps most importantly--the mountain village of Pataliputra, where Gandhi's government made its last stand, had become the center of a new faith.

(Yup--turns out that even when he's getting pounded on by Axes, Gandhi would rather go for religious techs with wonders attached to them instead of the military techs that would save his bony little butt. )

In the east, meanwhile, the Zulu army had made a show of marching through the newly captured Delhi. A small but effective force of Impis and Catapults marched past the borders, while Shaka himself refused to join in the Indian War, stating that he had "enough on his hands." Troops remained station at the gates of Delhi just in case Shaka had any ideas.

It turned out that he did have ideas.

With King Gandhi no longer worth crushing, Shaka had turned his attention to the Lakota tribe north of Spain. Remembering how Sitting Bull had demanded corn all of those years before, the High Queen enthusiastically agreed to close down all deals with the chief. Shaka's troops were welcomed in Indian lands, and his army marched north, the Impis licking their chops at the prospects of war with the Lakota.

Meanwhile, the Christian holy city was weakened. The hillside was sufficient fortification to incur losses for the Spanish, but the raids were noncommittal... until, that is, the tiny village's population grew sufficiently to incur the losses in an attack.

William the Conqueror was, in this world, no conqueror. The last Spanish swordsmen charged up the hill, slaughtered the remaining garrisons, and captured the city.

Mahatma Gandhi himself--no longer a king, but merely a war criminal--was brought before the Pyramids, into the center of Stonehenge, where Spanish justice was indeed meted out. The people of Madrid, surrounding this holy spot, stood in awe as their resplendent queen entered the circle, her gown and crown decorated with deep red garnet stones. Gandhi--bound in the center of the circle--could barely raise his head as the High Queen drew her sabre.

"All of this... for a few lousy gems?" Gandhi gasped.

The High Queen smiled.

And Mahatma Gandhi's blood was spilled at Stonehenge.

(State of the world to come!)

 

[The Oz-Man]

State of the World at 325 AD:

Not too bad, thanks.

Here's Old Spain:

Pacal seems to be heading southwest, into the jungle. He's welcome to do that. I'd rather those cities be a drain on him than me, and I think we'll be able to take care of him before too long. And, of course, CreeDakota's site is still available, so I'll stop being stupid and settle it as quickly as I can.

Here's New Spain, or Old India:

Gandhi had four pretty nice cities, so I kept them all. Pataliputra almost certainly would've been razed if it wasn't the Christian holy city. It's not too bad, though; it can work those bananas to grow, and the land is mostly nice and green. It's also a pretty good anchor for our border with Boudica and should help secure Salamanca's borders.

All told, we've got two holy cities for three religions now, but we've only got one of the three shrines (fortunately, it's the most widespread religion of the three). Should I work on getting a Great Prophet up?

Delhi, I think, looks like a very nice GP farm thanks to all that seafood and those sugars. On the other hand, it's also a very nice commerce city thanks to the gems. Literature is probably on our short-term tech path, so I think it's time to start thinking about where we want all of those GPs to come from. Maybe go nuts and go with Madrid? I'm really liking it as a production city, and working more specialists there will mean not working those mines.

Right now, we're two turns away from CoL, which would be a monopoly (which would mean, yes, we'll also found Confucianism assuming we don't get beaten). It'll also net us Courthouses, which I think we'll need soon. Boudica may well be an espionage monster with the Great Wall, and I'd like to do what we can to start getting a leg up.

Techs:

Gandhi had, by the end of the round, Monotheism, Monarchy, Theology, and I think Aesthetics on us, so those techs sort of died with him. I was considering suing for peace, but--like I suggested above--I didn't want him cozying up to Boudica in particular. Was that a mistake?

The good news is that we're still doing very nicely in terms of tech, with a few monopolies and a few trades available.

I'd like to get Calendar online ASAP, and I'm hoping Pacal builds the Mausoleum for me. Luckily, we can trade to get it. Here's Boudica's offer:

Euuuuuuugh. We're not giving away anything too bad, but it's still sort of a ripoff.

Pacal's being more reasonable despite making the crazy eyes; on the other hand, he's a future target, and I don't want to give him too much help.

Relations:

Trading with Pacal might also make Freddy mad; on the other hand, he's less likely to trade the tech around if he gets it.

Info screen with a list of our current assets:

I'll need a few more workers for sure. I'll put Madrid on that quickly. We got a goodly number in the war, fortunately, but a lot of Gandhi's old lands still need cleaned up.

Demographics:

Shaka's the big dog as far as military goes. I think we're closing in on tops of the tech chart, but we might be getting beaten by Pacal.

And finally, city info instead of a jillion demographic screens:

Seville might need a whippin' soon. It's working all of its cottages and a pair of scientists. We can eke out a couple more happy faces by getting Hinduism there and building a temple or two.

So that's where we are now. I made an impulsive decision to go ahead and kill Gandhi, and the result is that we have four good cities (one of them a bit underdeveloped) and a profitable shrine.

We also have a defined enemy: the Native Americans. Shaka, as I said, is marching an army over there, and he'll probably declare war early in the next round. We've got a few troops healing, but we've got a lot of healthy catapults, and we've got a settled GG in our primary troop city now. I'm thinking the Sitting Bull fight will be a war of conquest as well.

Techwise, I'd like to shoot for Machinery and Engineering to get Citadel-powered Trebuchets on the field. Would a straight beeline that way work once we get CoL? I don't want to put Lit on the backburner for too long, so a dip in that direction may not be a bad idea.

What about civics? We'll be able to run Rep-powered Caste System in short order, and I think a few turns of that when we're not whipping infrastructure will help us out a lot (I love you, Spiritual; let's marry and have babies). I may do five of one and then five of another. The whip is still going to be a handy tool, but being able to run a ton of super-powered scientists is a pretty tempting prospect.

A GP is coming, too. If we get a scientist, he'll bulb Philosophy for us unless you all think he should build an Academy in Seville. If we get a Prophet, he'll go to Delhi to build the Temple of Solomon. Engineer? Mausoleum if it's available. That sound good?

Here's the save. And yes, this time I'll wait and listen.

Thanks!

 

[Gumbolt]

A few things.

Didn't spot Shaka stack but gifting him alphabet gets him to pleased and then he won't declare on you.

Melee will be almost useless vs sittingbull. Dog Soldiers are a pain.

Right now I would be building forges/barracks/Stables and heading for the Spanish UU.

Techwise abuse Caste system and run plenty of specialists. Tech aesth/Lit/music/CS/paper/edu/nationalism/Lib (MT). Oh and gunpoweder.

Chop great library and NE somwhere.

I would question library builds in some cities if you intend to use caste. I would focus on specialists and growing cities so you can whip them to death for the Spanish UU Conquis!!

As for castles??? Why oh why would you build them? A strength 12 unit will crush all before it and will need no trebs or catapults. Not sure you even need machinery or engineering before you tech MT/gunpowder.

Keep your neighbours on guard and try and bribe shaka into war if possible to keep SB and Pascal busy!

You have a lot of cities and an easy economy. You just need to make the killer blow.

I guess you could use land based units but for me HA or the UU will be much quicker. The AI are quite backwards here.