Help on City Specialization

[iamnleth]

It's something I've never been good at: city specialization. I'm playing as the Romans, Hemispheres map, Monarch level. I grabbed the pyramids and I'm running representation, although I haven't been using the specialists much because I've been whipping my military. I want to try out something I've never tried before: The hybrid economy. I'm aiming for some cities that will run specialists and some that will run cottages... and, of course, my production cities. But I'm not sure how best to specialize the Portugese section of my empire-- the only factor I can really see as of now is food (if it's below 40 food for the site, it may make a better specialist city than a commerce city). Any tips? I'd like to know the general thought process that goes on when deciding how to specialize cities. Any comment would be appreciated ... especially since I don't usually get much advice on these type of things.

Spoiler :

 

[futurehermit]

If a city can run 6 specialists and still have at least +2 food surplus, I'd say use it to run specialists. If not, then follow DaveMcW's rule of thumb and if the city can work 10 cottages pre-biology then make it a commerce city. If neither of the two apply the city is a production city (should have a good mix of grassland farms/food tiles and hills/production tiles).

 

[Cam_H]

Trv,

I've taken a shot at the cities' areas of specialisation as I see it;



... but I should say that this is partly contingent upon what's happening in the rest of your empire ... for instance, Oporto looks like a fine Farm, but I'd Cottage half of it if you've already sunk a lot of points into other cities in your Roman sector. The resources tab hasn't highlighted a resource under that Mine south west of Neapolis, but it looks like Gold on my screen - if so, this city could go any way - a production hub, a specialist centre, or a Cottaged commerce spot. If it doesn't have Gold, I'd be inclined to clear the Jungle and work the Farms and Mines for a unit pump. Evora's doesn't appear to have any resources, so I'd be inclined to Cottage it up.

In a nutshell, you can work any sites into commerce centres or production centres with varying success provided that there's adequate food, but I tend to focus on the needs and balance of my empire and the resources around the city to point me one way or the other. Changes to civics, technology, expansion of your empire, etc. keeps your empire dynamic - for instance, a Medieval Farm might make a terrific Modern Era production hub by converting some of the Farms over to Workshops when other cities are pumping out points and each additional requires more and more points.

Anyway - that's one view. Others might have other ideas!

 

[futurehermit]

Lisbon looks to have enough food to run specialists to me (Clam, banana, corn, 3 spices)

 

[Cam_H]

^ I agree ... I suspect the happiness cap is going to be the issue with this city, that can work the food resources, the Spice Plantations, lots of Cottages as well as run plenty of specialists.

 

[JBossch]

Having the pyramids, I would definitely turn Lisbon into a Gp farm and run representation

 

[futurehermit]

Hereditary rule can solve the happiness problem

 

[iamnleth]

Lisbon looks to have enough food to run specialists to me (Clam, banana, corn, 3 spices)

Yes, Lisbon was really the only city that I had set in stone as a GP farm. But is it wise to set it towards GP points AND commerce?

Hereditary rule can solve the happiness problem

I may consider the Globe Theater as well-- I usually don't get much other use out of it.

Also, thanks for the great replies. Both of your comments have already helped an unbelievable amount! I suppose I should mention that Rome is full of wonders and has already generated a few Great People.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

If a city can run 6 specialists and still have at least +2 food surplus, I'd say use it to run specialists. If not, then follow DaveMcW's rule of thumb and if the city can work 10 cottages pre-biology then make it a commerce city. If neither of the two apply the city is a production city (should have a good mix of grassland farms/food tiles and hills/production tiles).

... sort of.

I think these are good rules for locating great GP Farms and great commerce cities.

Unfortunately, these types of cities don't always come around. And even more unfortunate is when you have to sacrifice what could be a great GP Farm to become a production city because that city just happens to be the only good production site.

Personally, I find production cities to be the most difficult sites to come across because they typically need both good food and good production tiles.

GP Farms are less difficult to locate, because you really only need good food resources to make it work.

Commerce cities are simple to find, because they basically only need a good collection of grassland tiles.


Before the Industrial Era, you're almost exclusively tied to the tiles available. But once you've discover Biology, Corporations, Replaceable Parts, Communism, etc., you can essentially turn any city into anything you want it be with the right improvements, corporations and civics combination.


I have "rules of thumb" for just about everything I do in Civ4. Sometimes I'll stop to calculate and micromanage everything, but I generally just follow my rules so I don't spend too much time on one game. My rules of thumb for city specialization (pre-Industrial Era) are:

• PRODUCTION CITY:
  
  
  • Being riverside is vital for a great production city the later the game gets. Being coastal with only 3 water tiles is also great (especially on non-Pangaea maps).
    
  • If the city can generate 15 - 20 raw hammers with +2F left over using 10 or fewer tiles, it's a good production city.
    
  • If the city can generate 20+ raw hammers with +2F left over using 10 or fewer tiles, it's a great production city.
    
  • If the production city can do either of the above at population 7 or less with decent tiles remaining, it's an excellent production city.
  
  
• GP FARM:
  
  
  • If the city has access to fresh water and/or is coastal, it's potential as a GP Farm is increased.
    
  • If the city can generate +6 to +10 food using only food resources, it's a good GP Farm.
    
  • If the city can generate +12 or more food using only food resources, it's a great GP Farm.
    
  • If the city can generate +12 or more food using 4 or fewer tiles and has grassland tiles available, it's an excellent GP Farm.
  
  
• COMMERCE CITY:
  
  
  • Having many riverside grassland tiles and/or being Coastal increases the city's commerce potential.
    
  • If the city can work 6 to 10 cottages (including Dyes, Incense, Gold or Gems) with +2F left over, it's a good commerce city.
    
  • If the city can work 10 to 15 cottages (including commerce-heavy resources) with +2F left over, it's a great commerce city.
    
  • If the city can work 15 to 20 cottages (not including commerce resources) with +2F left over, it's an excellent commerce city.
    
  • If the city can work 15+ cottages and is coastal, it's an extremely good commerce city (and should build the Temple of Artemis).
  
  
• OTHER / HYBRID:
  
  
  • If the city doesn't look to be a good anything city, then it can essentially be made into anything ... it just won't be good at it until the Industrial Era. (I typically make my "non-good" cities commerce cities or cheap unit factories.)

Hopefully, you'll find that as useful as I do. (EDIT: It looks like I was 8 minutes late on submitting this ... )


-- my 2

 

[iamnleth]

No, just in time! I have the game minimized now and I'm trying to decide how to go about this. It's all excellent information. The toughest challenge for me is deciding what to do with an excellent site when it could be made into anything I want it to be!

when trying to set up a Hybrid economy, is it best to have some commerce cities and some specialist cites, or is it best to have cities that work commerce tiles and run specialists?

 

[OTAKUjbski]

No, just in time! I have the game minimized now and I'm trying to decide how to go about this. It's all excellent information. The toughest challenge for me is deciding what to do with an excellent site when it could be made into anything I want it to be!

Most of the time, a city site is going to be better at one thing than another, which is almost always the determining factor to me as for what it will be.

In the rare cases I find a city that truly can be great at anything, I compare what the rest of the empire has available to it. So if every other city has poor production (or I only have one other production city), then I know the empire needs a good production city and the city is made into a production centre.

Likewise, if every other city is a production city, I have no GP Farm yet or my economy is in the toilet, then the city becomes a GP Farm or Cottage spam city.

when trying to set up a Hybrid economy, is it best to have some commerce cities and some specialist cites, or is it best to have cities that work commerce tiles and run specialists?

I typically don't like to run specialists and cottages in the same city at the same time. I don't know if I have a good reason for this or if it's just personal preference, but it's what I'm accustomed to.

If you aren't running Caste System, then you have no choice but to run specialists and work cottages in the same city.

I think one of the reasons why I segregate my commerce and specialist cities is because I prefer to exclusively run merchants in my specialist cities (non-GP Farm). I think I like to do this because it all but guarantees I'll get a late-game Great Merchant once one of the specialist cities finally catches up to the GP Farm and makes a Great Person.

Knowing I'll be running gold-heavy in those cities, I feel it's easier for me to justify prioritizing gold-boosting buildings there.

Quechua wrote an article on Gold, Beakers, and Deficit Research in which he showed an example where running a Merchant instead of a Scientist was actually better for the overall science rate, because it allowed the slider to be increased.​

At any rate, I find the only times I run truly hybrid (cottage & specialists) cities is when the city has decent production but not enough to be stelar. I run specialists roughly equivalent to the number of production tiles I have so that when production is called for, the city can keep working its cottages but still get the production it needs from the 'off-duty' specialists.


-- my 2

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I tried cottage, specialist, trade, food, wonder economies. They all work, but after a while, my conclusion is still to focus on grabbing tons of cities rather than trying to improve the land you have. I am learning to capture workers in war rather than building then, leaving cities and improvements as they are, and rather than being selective about tech, just try to bully whatever techs you can out of your victims. You reshape cities slightly if you have the workers to, but don't worry if you don't.

Tune your cities with city specialization techniques, but don't lose sight of the bigger picture: land is power.

 

[futurehermit]

don't lose sight of the bigger picture: land is power.

Well, I'm certainly not going to argue with that.

At the end of the day, I look at a city and ask myself: "What can this city do best?"

I think that's the best way to approach a game when you start as well. You can say "I want to run a SE this game" but if the terrain doesn't support it, but instead has lots of snaky rivers, you should definitely go with many commerce cities. If you have a game where your first 5 cities would make excellent production sites and you have a couple close neighbours, spend the first few eras going to war and worry about catching up in tech once you have a huge empire (with smart trading you can close the gap assuming you're not playing on deity and even then...).